22 Feb 2022, 10:40 am
22 Feb 2022, 10:45 am
22 Feb 2022, 12:02 pm
22 Feb 2022, 12:06 pm
22 Feb 2022, 12:12 pm
22 Feb 2022, 4:55 pm
22 Feb 2022, 4:59 pm
Nades wrote:
magz wrote:
I don't think they didn't acknowledge Russian position on it.
I think Russian position does not acknowledge Ukrainian independence, so it's hard to compromise here.
I think Russian position does not acknowledge Ukrainian independence, so it's hard to compromise here.
It might be a chicken or egg scenario. In not surprised the stance taken by each country given NATO's unwelcome interference in such a tense political area. Remove the threat of NATO and relations might be considerably less frosty.
Well, we know who the chickens are, and so does putin.
22 Feb 2022, 5:18 pm
22 Feb 2022, 5:24 pm
magz wrote:
This all reminds me of Czechoslovakia in 1938...
putin says there are major cultural ties with Ukraine.
This isn't the same with the Baltic States and Poland, right?
I understand your concerns, but perhaps it isn't as bad as you might think?
We have similar concerns about Taiwan, but I doubt there will be a chinese invasion before I am dead and buried.
22 Feb 2022, 5:29 pm
22 Feb 2022, 5:30 pm
Pepe wrote:
magz wrote:
This all reminds me of Czechoslovakia in 1938...
putin says there are major cultural ties with Ukraine.
This isn't the same with the Baltic States and Poland, right?
I understand your concerns, but perhaps it isn't as bad as you might think?
We have similar concerns about Taiwan, but I doubt there will be a chinese invasion before I am dead and buried.
Crimea was apparently similar with the populations loyalties neither Ukrainian or Russian.
22 Feb 2022, 5:34 pm
22 Feb 2022, 6:05 pm
Nades wrote:
Pepe wrote:
magz wrote:
There is something real about NATO: international forces are already here.
But non-members don't have such advantage.
But non-members don't have such advantage.
And if putin kills international forces there is no turning back for NATO with a war with russia.
The biggest problem with NATO once the deterrence factor is taken out of the equation......the massive conflict escalation well outside the original conflict zone with the obvious needless loss of lives it causes.
It's strange how people oppose nuclear weapons for these very reasons yet NATO becoming bigger and bigger, far bigger than needed is somehow fine.
As magz has pointed out, the reason The Baltic States and Poland joined NATO was due to fear of russian aggression.
The russians only had themselves to blame.
End of story.
22 Feb 2022, 6:40 pm
Pepe wrote:
Nades wrote:
Pepe wrote:
magz wrote:
There is something real about NATO: international forces are already here.
But non-members don't have such advantage.
But non-members don't have such advantage.
And if putin kills international forces there is no turning back for NATO with a war with russia.
The biggest problem with NATO once the deterrence factor is taken out of the equation......the massive conflict escalation well outside the original conflict zone with the obvious needless loss of lives it causes.
It's strange how people oppose nuclear weapons for these very reasons yet NATO becoming bigger and bigger, far bigger than needed is somehow fine.
As magz has pointed out, the reason The Baltic States and Poland joined NATO was due to fear of russian aggression.
The russians only had themselves to blame.
End of story.
What aggression? The cold war ended a while ago and the Russians haven't really been bothering its former states for quite some time even during long periods of them not being in NATO.
Russia only seem to get hot headed when with the prospect of more NATO, not less. If anything NATO seems to destabilise rather than stabilise.
Ukraine's just being used as a pawn by the west to sabre rattle Russia and nothing more. The west doesn't even care about Ukraine beyond giving agro to Russia.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,795
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
22 Feb 2022, 8:05 pm
Pepe wrote:
Q: Would you prefer a psychopathic killer or a self-absorbed narcissist as the leader of your country?
I much prefer a third choice.
22 Feb 2022, 8:41 pm
Nades wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Nades wrote:
Pepe wrote:
magz wrote:
There is something real about NATO: international forces are already here.
But non-members don't have such advantage.
But non-members don't have such advantage.
And if putin kills international forces there is no turning back for NATO with a war with russia.
The biggest problem with NATO once the deterrence factor is taken out of the equation......the massive conflict escalation well outside the original conflict zone with the obvious needless loss of lives it causes.
It's strange how people oppose nuclear weapons for these very reasons yet NATO becoming bigger and bigger, far bigger than needed is somehow fine.
As magz has pointed out, the reason The Baltic States and Poland joined NATO was due to fear of russian aggression.
The russians only had themselves to blame.
End of story.
What aggression? The cold war ended a while ago and the Russians haven't really been bothering its former states for quite some time even during long periods of them not being in NATO.
Russia only seem to get hot headed when with the prospect of more NATO, not less. If anything NATO seems to destabilise rather than stabilise.
Ukraine's just being used as a pawn by the west to sabre rattle Russia and nothing more. The west doesn't even care about Ukraine beyond giving agro to Russia.
"What we've got here is failure to communicate."
Russia is a threat to its former satellite states.
They may even threaten to invade Ukraine, again. <satire>
It is an aggressive dictatorship with its leader being a psychopathic killer who used radioactive tea and contaminated underpants to kill off dissidents.
What part of "Psycho in control" don't you understand?
Are you Russian, by any chance?
