House Panel: Trump Engaged in Criminal Conspiracy.

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Kraichgauer
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06 Mar 2022, 1:02 am

Pepe wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Pepe wrote:
TenMinutes wrote:
Pepe wrote:
I'm glad there wasn't a female Clinton.

The phrase: "Between a rock and a hard place" in terms of voting for either comes to mind. :mrgreen:


Clinton wanted a no-fly zone in Syria. That's how hawkish she was. We may have avoided a war with Russia by not electing her. Russiagate was a fabrication of her campaign and the DNC CYA campaign over leaked emails. You might also dig into what happened to Libya, and Clinton's mirth over it. And her reaction to her own staff wanting to transfer resources to Wisconsin and Michigan. Or that she WANTED trump as her opponent. That she ran all her State Department emails through a server in her home basement bathroom to avoid freedom of information act requests. Callous, dangerous, horrible decisions all around. That those were our choices in 2016 makes me think there's an insane, evil AI in charge, and that it hates humans :lol:


Wasn't she responsible for the death of at least one marine in the middle east?


If you're inquiring about Benghazi, then that can be answered with the fact that the Republicans had conducted more than one investigation into that, where Clinton had responded to hours and hours of questioning each time. And each time, not a single incriminating thing had been found to charge her with. So, no.


The way Trump wasn't found guilty of the Russian collusion thing? :scratch:


Trump was exonerated only because the Republican senate majority refused to listen to the evidence, as they were so enamored and terrified of the MAGA vote.


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Pepe
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06 Mar 2022, 1:14 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Pepe wrote:
TenMinutes wrote:
Pepe wrote:
I'm glad there wasn't a female Clinton.

The phrase: "Between a rock and a hard place" in terms of voting for either comes to mind. :mrgreen:


Clinton wanted a no-fly zone in Syria. That's how hawkish she was. We may have avoided a war with Russia by not electing her. Russiagate was a fabrication of her campaign and the DNC CYA campaign over leaked emails. You might also dig into what happened to Libya, and Clinton's mirth over it. And her reaction to her own staff wanting to transfer resources to Wisconsin and Michigan. Or that she WANTED trump as her opponent. That she ran all her State Department emails through a server in her home basement bathroom to avoid freedom of information act requests. Callous, dangerous, horrible decisions all around. That those were our choices in 2016 makes me think there's an insane, evil AI in charge, and that it hates humans :lol:


Wasn't she responsible for the death of at least one marine in the middle east?


If you're inquiring about Benghazi, then that can be answered with the fact that the Republicans had conducted more than one investigation into that, where Clinton had responded to hours and hours of questioning each time. And each time, not a single incriminating thing had been found to charge her with. So, no.


The way Trump wasn't found guilty of the Russian collusion thing? :scratch:


Trump was exonerated only because the Republican senate majority refused to listen to the evidence, as they were so enamored and terrified of the MAGA vote.


I keep an open mind when it comes to politics. ;)



Kraichgauer
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06 Mar 2022, 1:25 am

Pepe-
Keeping an open mind is fine, but one also has to take into account the motives and actions of those under consideration. Following Trump's acquittal, he and the GOP had taken vindictive action against those few Republicans who had voted guilty. Very different from Bill Clinton, who following his own impeachment acquittal, made it clear he was ready to forgive those Republicans who had tried destroying him.


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Pepe
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06 Mar 2022, 1:40 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Pepe-
Keeping an open mind is fine, but one also has to take into account the motives and actions of those under consideration. Following Trump's acquittal, he and the GOP had taken vindictive action against those few Republicans who had voted guilty. Very different from Bill Clinton, who following his own impeachment acquittal, made it clear he was ready to forgive those Republicans who had tried destroying him.


I think you missed my point.
I am skeptical about the decisions made on both sides.
I wasn't born yesterday. ;)



Kraichgauer
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06 Mar 2022, 2:08 am

Pepe wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Pepe-
Keeping an open mind is fine, but one also has to take into account the motives and actions of those under consideration. Following Trump's acquittal, he and the GOP had taken vindictive action against those few Republicans who had voted guilty. Very different from Bill Clinton, who following his own impeachment acquittal, made it clear he was ready to forgive those Republicans who had tried destroying him.


I think you missed my point.
I am skeptical about the decisions made on both sides.
I wasn't born yesterday. ;)


Yes, but that doesn't mean that both sides have to be wrong. One can be right. After all, during the American Civil War, the Republicans were clearly in the right. They're just not now.


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Pepe
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06 Mar 2022, 2:13 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Pepe-
Keeping an open mind is fine, but one also has to take into account the motives and actions of those under consideration. Following Trump's acquittal, he and the GOP had taken vindictive action against those few Republicans who had voted guilty. Very different from Bill Clinton, who following his own impeachment acquittal, made it clear he was ready to forgive those Republicans who had tried destroying him.


I think you missed my point.
I am skeptical about the decisions made on both sides.
I wasn't born yesterday. ;)


Yes, but that doesn't mean that both sides have to be wrong. One can be right. After all, during the American Civil War, the Republicans were clearly in the right. They're just not now.


Being skeptical doesn't mean I think a decision/judgement is wrong.
It means I still keep an open mind since I don't know the complete situation.

Do you automatically trust what *any* politician says?
If so, I have the Sydney Harbour Bridge to sell you. ;)



Kraichgauer
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06 Mar 2022, 2:23 am

Pepe wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Pepe-
Keeping an open mind is fine, but one also has to take into account the motives and actions of those under consideration. Following Trump's acquittal, he and the GOP had taken vindictive action against those few Republicans who had voted guilty. Very different from Bill Clinton, who following his own impeachment acquittal, made it clear he was ready to forgive those Republicans who had tried destroying him.


I think you missed my point.
I am skeptical about the decisions made on both sides.
I wasn't born yesterday. ;)


Yes, but that doesn't mean that both sides have to be wrong. One can be right. After all, during the American Civil War, the Republicans were clearly in the right. They're just not now.


Being skeptical doesn't mean I think a decision/judgement is wrong.
It means I still keep an open mind since I don't know the complete situation.

Do you automatically trust what *any* politician says?
If so, I have the Sydney Harbour Bridge to sell you. ;)


No, that's why I'm skeptical of Trump. I know that he's utterly and completely full of fecal matter.


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Pepe
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06 Mar 2022, 2:32 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Pepe-
Keeping an open mind is fine, but one also has to take into account the motives and actions of those under consideration. Following Trump's acquittal, he and the GOP had taken vindictive action against those few Republicans who had voted guilty. Very different from Bill Clinton, who following his own impeachment acquittal, made it clear he was ready to forgive those Republicans who had tried destroying him.


I think you missed my point.
I am skeptical about the decisions made on both sides.
I wasn't born yesterday. ;)


Yes, but that doesn't mean that both sides have to be wrong. One can be right. After all, during the American Civil War, the Republicans were clearly in the right. They're just not now.


Being skeptical doesn't mean I think a decision/judgement is wrong.
It means I still keep an open mind since I don't know the complete situation.

Do you automatically trust what *any* politician says?
If so, I have the Sydney Harbour Bridge to sell you. ;)


No, that's why I'm skeptical of Trump. I know that he's utterly and completely full of fecal matter.


I wouldn't trust what Trump says in a pink tutu fit.
But then I don't trust *any* politician to any degree of depth.

I wouldn't trust Hillary as far as I can spit, either. :mrgreen:

I'd trust WikiLeaks, however. 8)



Kraichgauer
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06 Mar 2022, 3:01 am

Pepe wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Pepe-
Keeping an open mind is fine, but one also has to take into account the motives and actions of those under consideration. Following Trump's acquittal, he and the GOP had taken vindictive action against those few Republicans who had voted guilty. Very different from Bill Clinton, who following his own impeachment acquittal, made it clear he was ready to forgive those Republicans who had tried destroying him.


I think you missed my point.
I am skeptical about the decisions made on both sides.
I wasn't born yesterday. ;)


Yes, but that doesn't mean that both sides have to be wrong. One can be right. After all, during the American Civil War, the Republicans were clearly in the right. They're just not now.


Being skeptical doesn't mean I think a decision/judgement is wrong.
It means I still keep an open mind since I don't know the complete situation.

Do you automatically trust what *any* politician says?
If so, I have the Sydney Harbour Bridge to sell you. ;)


No, that's why I'm skeptical of Trump. I know that he's utterly and completely full of fecal matter.


I wouldn't trust what Trump says in a pink tutu fit.
But then I don't trust *any* politician to any degree of depth.

I wouldn't trust Hillary as far as I can spit, either. :mrgreen:

I'd trust WikiLeaks, however. 8)


I personally Wikileaks had allowed themselves to be compromised by the Russians years ago. While they had done good initially, I think that whi... that guy with the pale hair and skin was more interested in sowing anarchy and chaos that with looking for justice.


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DW_a_mom
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06 Mar 2022, 5:24 am

Pepe wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Pepe wrote:
TenMinutes wrote:
Pepe wrote:
I'm glad there wasn't a female Clinton.

The phrase: "Between a rock and a hard place" in terms of voting for either comes to mind. :mrgreen:


Clinton wanted a no-fly zone in Syria. That's how hawkish she was. We may have avoided a war with Russia by not electing her. Russiagate was a fabrication of her campaign and the DNC CYA campaign over leaked emails. You might also dig into what happened to Libya, and Clinton's mirth over it. And her reaction to her own staff wanting to transfer resources to Wisconsin and Michigan. Or that she WANTED trump as her opponent. That she ran all her State Department emails through a server in her home basement bathroom to avoid freedom of information act requests. Callous, dangerous, horrible decisions all around. That those were our choices in 2016 makes me think there's an insane, evil AI in charge, and that it hates humans :lol:


Wasn't she responsible for the death of at least one marine in the middle east?


If you're inquiring about Benghazi, then that can be answered with the fact that the Republicans had conducted more than one investigation into that, where Clinton had responded to hours and hours of questioning each time. And each time, not a single incriminating thing had been found to charge her with. So, no.


The way Trump wasn't found guilty of the Russian collusion thing? :scratch:


Trump, himself, was not part of the scope of the Mueller investigation.

Trump refused to testify and wouldn't allow anyone around him to testify, either. Clinton cooperated with the investigation, allowed those around her to do the same, answered all the questions, and did so publicly.


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06 Mar 2022, 9:41 am

Selective memory. Trump answered Muller's questions and Hillary bleached-bit her server.



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06 Mar 2022, 12:08 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
Maybe it’s time to criminalize conservatism, if Trumpism is it’s permanent form now.


The Gipper was kind of criminal IMO, and others say fully criminal. Trump lite.

And Nixon lol, but he doesnt fit the trump mould like Reagan and dat Dubya. :jester:

bring back Jeb, bring back Jeb!



DW_a_mom
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07 Mar 2022, 3:51 am

txfz1 wrote:
Selective memory. Trump answered Muller's questions and Hillary bleached-bit her server.


I was thinking of full, in person testimony, not written answers with no cross examination. Only one of them sat in a chair and faced a committee.

Both had apparently “convenient” losses of data.


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07 Mar 2022, 9:03 am

Clarence Thomas’ Wife is Linked to Effort to STEAL the 2020 Election



txfz1
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07 Mar 2022, 9:13 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
txfz1 wrote:
Selective memory. Trump answered Muller's questions and Hillary bleached-bit her server.


I was thinking of full, in person testimony, not written answers with no cross examination. Only one of them sat in a chair and faced a committee.

Both had apparently “convenient” losses of data.


Clinton set the full testimony precedent during his impeachment. What data did Trump bleachbit? The FBI's fabricated FISA, Hillary's monitoring his private emails, did he lose Steele's video of the pee incident in Moscow? In hindsight, since everything was fabricated, did you expect OMB to contribute to the fabrications?



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07 Mar 2022, 3:10 pm

TenMinutes wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
This is incorrect. The United States is the only country in the world with both FPTP and only two parties represented in the federal legislature.


In increasing order of modern relevance, these are the reasons the USA has unique obstacles to third parties fielding credible candidates for national office:

electoral college, federal campaign finance and state ballot access laws, media inertia

Citizens willingly participate in the latter. You're wasting your vote. You're a conspiratorial nutjob if you don't vote for one of the two party candidates. You are responsible for the bogeyman if you don't help one of these parties defeat the other.

There is no modern pathway for a national, third party candidate, or for a change in which parties fill the two roles. None whatsoever. It may be possible for the Dems and the Repubs to change their character over time, or even switch roles (some would argue that has happened), but it is not possible for either to disappear. Even though neither of them are government entities, they are now essentially codified into being by de-facto common law.

There are many flaws in the US electoral system, but it is clearly not true that it is impossible for a third party to win. Remember Ross Perot? The guy had a very real chance of winning in 1992, he was leading opinion polls until he made a series of bad decisions. Or look to the rise of Emmanuel Macron in France.

Campaign finance reforms are necessary in any case, the amount of money spent on election campaigns in the US is obscene.
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Quote:
political parties do have to follow state laws around elections for their primaries. You can be charged with criminal voter fraud if you vote in a primary without being legally registered to vote.


You are talking about votER fraud, which plays almost no role in the USA. This is the same misdirection the GOP uses.

I didn’t say voter fraud did play a significant role in the US. I merely said that primary elections do often have to follow state law, and laws around voter registration and eligibility are one such example. Most states will not let parties allow children to vote, for example.
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Quote:
The next thing that Americans do not recognize is that both parties are both neoliberal (free market, laissez faire capitalist) and neoconservative (American exceptionalism, interventionist foreign policy).
Quote:
That’s not what “neoconservative” means, and it’s a limited definition of “neoliberal”.


Yes, it is. My definitions come from top google results. If you have something different, please share.

I would suggest the Wikipedia articles are good introductions.

Neoconservatives are culturally conservative. They reject the 60s counterculture movements and LBJ’s Great Society. There is a distinction between liberal hawks and neoconservatives. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism

Neoliberalism refers to a bunch of different ideologies. Initially it referred to what Americans now call “liberalism”, as opposed to classic liberalism - the key thinkers were people like Alexander Rustow. In the 80s it became associated with Milton Friedman, who if anything wanted to move back towards classic liberalism (but is often caricatured). Today the only significant people in America calling themselves Neoliberals are associated with the Progressive Policy Institute, which basically synthesises Rustow and Friedman and supports the Centre for New Liberalism: https://www.progressivepolicy.org/about-us/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

All shades of neoliberal also believe in social and political liberalism - it isn’t a purely economic ideology.

Even if we accept your definition of neoliberalism, nobody in the Democratic Party meets that definition and very few people in the Republican Party do.