Putin's brutal invasion 'could mark the end of his regime'

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Pepe
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06 Mar 2022, 2:41 am

Quote:
Vladimir Putin's brutal invasion 'could mark the end of his regime', says James Paterson

The chair of the powerful parliamentary committee on intelligence and security has claimed Vladimir Putin's regime could fall because of his invasion of Ukraine.


https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-ne ... erallPos=5



auntblabby
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06 Mar 2022, 3:09 am

little more than wishful thinking.



magz
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06 Mar 2022, 3:36 am

So far, Putin's regime has become way more opressive.
Will it collapse? Maybe. What would be next? I'd love Russians to be free and safe in a true democracy but it's unlikely to happen so quickly, it needs social changes.
Realistic options I see are either another dictator or Yeltsin-like chaos.


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Pepe
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06 Mar 2022, 5:53 am

auntblabby wrote:
little more than wishful thinking.


Time will tell. 8)



And So It Goes
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06 Mar 2022, 9:11 am

There's also speculation that he's dying of cancer.


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auntblabby
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06 Mar 2022, 2:34 pm

if he does get replaced it will likely be with somebody even worse.



magz
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06 Mar 2022, 2:45 pm

auntblabby wrote:
if he does get replaced it will likely be with somebody even worse.

Another Stalin?
No wonder Ukrainians fight.


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06 Mar 2022, 5:26 pm

And So It Goes wrote:
There's also speculation that he's dying of cancer.


We can only hope. :mrgreen:



naturalplastic
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06 Mar 2022, 5:45 pm

auntblabby wrote:
if he does get replaced it will likely be with somebody even worse.


Not necessarily. Its not that kind of regime. A regime built upon a fanatical ideology like Al Queda. Its built upon one guy- one corrupt guy with certain dreams.

I agree that it unrealistic to hold your breath and assume he will diposed. But if he is diposed you cant assume that he will replaced by someone worse.

He is a gangster with a midlife crises who sees how both himself, and his dream of restoring the old USSR are running out of time. So he did this desperate thing.

Even an equally corrupt successor pulled from his circle of trusted cronies would likely be more pragmatic, and less fanatic, and realize that 'this Ukraine thing is hurting us more than helping us'.


But dying of cancer, or not, or disposed soon, or not, he can still do a lot of damage before its all over.

But...the Ides of March is approaching. I am hoping that someone in his circle will take the hint from Mitch McConnell and act as Brutus, and lead them in taking out Putin like the Roman senators carved up Julius Ceasar with their steak knives.



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06 Mar 2022, 5:54 pm

I wonder if he has a food taster.


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Pepe
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06 Mar 2022, 6:29 pm

auntblabby wrote:
if he does get replaced it will likely be with somebody even worse.


I seriously doubt that.
If pootin is replaced, the new guy could put all the dirt on him and change direction.



Pepe
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06 Mar 2022, 6:31 pm

Misslizard wrote:
I wonder if he has a food taster.


A tea tester, for sure.
An underwear tester also, I would think. :mrgreen:



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06 Mar 2022, 7:01 pm

If Putin ends up provoking NATO into a war, and it remains a conventional conflict, then that would end with his defeat, removal, and trial for war crimes. If this hypothetical war turns nuclear, then Putin will also be gone... but so will we.


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06 Mar 2022, 8:46 pm

It is wishful thinking. Articles like these are written by people who have no idea how political system works in Russia.

Putin is a tent-pole for all people around him. Without Putin, structure collapses and takes them down with him.

First of all, most western outlets tend to think that sanctions hitting oligarchs will make them overthrow Putin. But oligarchs not only have little political power, they also have deep connections to de facto large scale criminal activity in Russia. Putin guarantees them a level of protection and also delegates them to handle key areas of economy, giving them cash streams to leech on. Yes, they are losing a lot of money now, but they would lose even more if Putin would be suddenly gone and someone else would take his spot - new ruler would surely want to rearrange power structure and would be a threat to oligarchs, who could lose their position. Even worse for them, they could face trails or even imprisonment for frauds as no single one of them have their hands clean. So it would be extremely easy to destroy them (and it happened before, under Putin rule). Their best bet is to stick with Putin till the end and hope that the boat named Russia will survive this storm.

Then there are people who Putin considers his inner circle. These people are quite often nobodies elevated to prestige positions. A good example is Sergei Shoigu, holding title of General of the Army, even though he have no military career whatsoever and comes from public sector. People like him are deeply loyal to Putin, because they owe him literally everything when it comes to their status and careers. And they are not picked at random, too - those are people sharing the same views and sentiments as their leader. Another thing with this group is that they are not really competent at what they are supposed to do in their respective posts - they act more like a facade to show public that there's some kind of structure to the government, but in reality they have little to no say in decision making and their role boils down to making sure that Putin's plans are executed by people who are beneath them in chain of command. They also are acting as an "insurance policy" of Putin, making sure that no one dares to go against him. When Putin rule comes to end, eventually, one of these people will most likely take the seat and ensure everyone else remains in their place.

The chances of a coup attempt are very slim at this point. They may get higher over time, when Russian economy collapses, but even the it is not guaranteed. The people in power will still live wealthy lives, even if society in general will be extremely poor. Yes, they will live them less comfortably, with limited access to western civilisation, but not to the point that it will be worth risking it all. Take a look at North Korea. This is where Russia is heading.

The only realistic scenario in which Putin would be removed from his position by coup is if he would like to directly go against NATO or engage in nuclear war. By looking at incompetency and piss poor state of Russian army during current war in Ukraine, people close to Putin must realise that Russia have absolutely no military power to engage in conventional warfare against NATO. Most likely, Putin has been waiting for NATO to disband and then do a larger scale war against more Eastern European countries. But Trump 2nd term has not happened, luckily for us. Anyway - guys like Shoigu are likely to oppose open conflict, because Russia cannot win it and they would go down with their leader and the state. It is fair to say they would give Putin away to be put under a trial in exchange of guarantees of their own invulnerability from western countries. They would then choose one of them to be a new leader, ensuring their positions stay in place. But this absolutely doesn't mean that imperial ambitions of Russia would be halted - if anything, they would be thawed, as these people would need time to rebuilt and influence the political landscape (both in neighbouring countries and worldwide) to be more in their favour.

So, the more Putin pushes Russia towards conflict with NATO, the higher chance that he will see end of his rule pretty soon. But he most likely knows it, so he waves his nuclear dildo around and makes threats, to make sure it doesn't happen.

Then you have the possibility of nuclear war. Whereas there are most likely some zealots who would back Putin in this, it is hard to believe that most of people in his inner circle would. This is because of pure pragmatism - Russia (along with most of the world) would be pushed back to stone age and ruling over a pile of rubble (if you survive) is worth nothing.

As for people on the streets ...they are only statistics. Thousands of them are walking in protests, but Russia is home to over 140 million people, majority of which support Putin, do not take a side or are simply too afraid to show their insubordination. There's zero chance as of now for this nation to make a significant regime change.



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06 Mar 2022, 10:40 pm

^^^ this.
Russia has been ruled by tyrants for 400 years, with intermittant phases of chaos. Russian tyrants know how to build their tyrannies, and there aren't any signs for an october revolution to overthrow this tyrant on the horizon.

There's also the question of what system should replace this tyranny - a democracy, in a country that has been this corrupt for so long, will have a rocky start. Indeed, that's how one could describe the Yeltsin years: a rocky start to democracy in Russia.


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06 Mar 2022, 10:48 pm

It would be nice if Russia could just become a normal 21st century European nation, instead of maintaining the evil empire routine.