27 Dec 2022, 10:49 pm
27 Dec 2022, 10:52 pm
27 Dec 2022, 10:52 pm
goldfish21 wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
I think the most important question is: Why do we have so much migration from Mexico and Central America, in the first place?
Here is info from some relevant charities:
- ASJ
- World Vision
I think it's time to take a good, hard look at whatever foreign aid the U.S. government is giving to Mexico and the Central American countries and find some good ways to make it more effective, maybe increase it if necessary, or maybe encourage their governments to make some necessary changes. Is there anything we can do to help them build better infrastructure, for example? In general I think we need to do more to help our southern neighbors, both via government foreign aid and via private charities such as the afore-mentioned.
If we don't, then these countries will likely -- sooner or later -- go looking for friends elsewhere. And we, in the U.S.A., may even end up with Chinese or Russian troops at our southern border.
Am I the only person here in the U.S.A. who worries about this obvious possibility?
Here is info from some relevant charities:
- ASJ
- World Vision
I think it's time to take a good, hard look at whatever foreign aid the U.S. government is giving to Mexico and the Central American countries and find some good ways to make it more effective, maybe increase it if necessary, or maybe encourage their governments to make some necessary changes. Is there anything we can do to help them build better infrastructure, for example? In general I think we need to do more to help our southern neighbors, both via government foreign aid and via private charities such as the afore-mentioned.
If we don't, then these countries will likely -- sooner or later -- go looking for friends elsewhere. And we, in the U.S.A., may even end up with Chinese or Russian troops at our southern border.
Am I the only person here in the U.S.A. who worries about this obvious possibility?
Two things Americans can do to slow migration North:
1. A rain dance. There's no water in some of these drought stricken regions.. no water, no food, nothing to drink = must relocate to survive.
2. Stop doing drugs that are produced in these countries, resulting in massive criminal cartels and political instability. If Americans stopped doing illicit drugs, these countries wouldn't have many of the criminal problems they have.
This is hilarious!
How much do you know about doing drugs? Let me give you a quick tutorial, I've been in recovery from opiates for nearly 10 years now.
People who do drugs recreationally might still possess the ability to ponder the effects of their actions on society. People who are addicted aren't thinking about anything but their next high ( that includes where to get the money and who's holding ). That mentality is precisely what the dealers are counting on to drive the market. You cannot have one without the other. You might as well say that the Cartels should get a conscience and stop selling drugs. As long as you have the Poppy/Coca plant, you will have the Cartel. As long as you have the Cartel, you will have the addict. The only thing that saves the addict is divine intervention. Divine intervention is in short supply with the Cartel, sad to say.
goldfish21
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27 Dec 2022, 11:31 pm
Obviously Americans can't make it rain in Honduras and people aren't going to stop doing drugs despite the problems the drug trade creates in drug producing countries.
So, tough titties. Migrants are migrating. Figure out better ways to deal with it vs. making it a left/right political debate issue. Instead, streamline your processes for integrating legitimate refugees into your economy and make the most of the stream of willing labour being gifted to your doorstep. There are buildings to construct and crops to harvest.
_________________
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for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.27 Dec 2022, 11:42 pm
goldfish21
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27 Dec 2022, 11:55 pm
Persephone29 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
:roll:
Obviously Americans can't make it rain in Honduras and people aren't going to stop doing drugs despite the problems the drug trade creates in drug producing countries.
So, tough titties. Migrants are migrating. Figure out better ways to deal with it vs. making it a left/right political debate issue. Instead, streamline your processes for integrating legitimate refugees into your economy and make the most of the stream of willing labour being gifted to your doorstep. There are buildings to construct and crops to harvest.
Obviously Americans can't make it rain in Honduras and people aren't going to stop doing drugs despite the problems the drug trade creates in drug producing countries.
So, tough titties. Migrants are migrating. Figure out better ways to deal with it vs. making it a left/right political debate issue. Instead, streamline your processes for integrating legitimate refugees into your economy and make the most of the stream of willing labour being gifted to your doorstep. There are buildings to construct and crops to harvest.
Says the person who comes from a country whose upper half is covered in permafrost. Sorry if I don't feel your solutions are from real experience, but some kind of think tank.
What does permafrost have to do with refugees on the US' Southern doorstep and the jobs Americans refuse to do that still need doing? Only makes sense to put 2 & 2 together and make the best of it instead of partisan political yapping back and forth about it, especially since no one can make it rain and Americans aren't about to give up their drug habits.
I suppose I'll take it as a compliment that you think my thoughts came out of an entire think tank, though. I must be pretty sharp.
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for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.Kraichgauer
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28 Dec 2022, 12:41 am
Kraichgauer
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28 Dec 2022, 12:48 am
28 Dec 2022, 1:03 am
goldfish21
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28 Dec 2022, 1:13 am
Mona Pereth wrote:
Persephone29, goldfish21, and Kraichgauer:
Can we all agree that people don't migrate, in large numbers at least, unless they have to?
What do you think of the idea of the U.S. government doing more (via more-effective foreign aid, whatever that requires) to ensure that fewer people have to migrate, in the first place?
(And, while we're at it, ensuring that those countries remain friendly to us, rather than allying with China or Russia?)
And wouldn't that be a whole lot better than arguing over immigration policy?
Can we all agree that people don't migrate, in large numbers at least, unless they have to?
What do you think of the idea of the U.S. government doing more (via more-effective foreign aid, whatever that requires) to ensure that fewer people have to migrate, in the first place?
(And, while we're at it, ensuring that those countries remain friendly to us, rather than allying with China or Russia?)
And wouldn't that be a whole lot better than arguing over immigration policy?
Mass migration doesn’t happen unless people are forced to for survival, I agree.
Why would the USA want to do more to keep people from coming?
Maybe they’re only doing what they’re doing because they’re content to have that low cost labour arrive ready to work the Millions of unfilled jobs? Maybe politicians on both sides are content with the situation as is, politicizing it for partisan divisiveness and respective votes resulting from the issue ?Sometimes problems are convenient not to solve because too many people gain from the status quo.
_________________
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for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,798
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
28 Dec 2022, 1:18 am
28 Dec 2022, 4:55 am
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
It's a stunt based on one half cruelty, and one half dehumanization.
Agree. ^
If someone had dumped a bunch of dogs or cats in the cold, there'd be more of a public outcry.
Shameful.
Apparently, Texas is "full".
You may need to look beyond the current.
For example:
If there wouldn't have been a "Versailles Treaty", there would never have been a Hitler.
If there weren't such a disastrous immigration policy, there wouldn't be a crisis today.
28 Dec 2022, 5:02 am
magz wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I mean throwing vulnerable people wearing nothing but t-shirts into an area that is - 45 F. If any of them died of hypothermia then isn't Abbott culpable for murder?
A rare case when my perspective perfectly aligns with cyberdad's.
It also reminds me of how Belarus is using desperate migrants to destabilize Poland and Lithuania. The same kind of exploitation of human tragedies.
You need to consider what caused this political stunt.
28 Dec 2022, 5:08 am
Persephone29 wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I'm curious why Abbott isn't arrested over these stunts?
Obtuse...
Texas is being OVERRUN, how can you not get this? I'm super glad you live in a world where everyone skips to mylou, there's plenty of space, food, housing for millions of people showing up in a relatively short span of time. We don't, the only way our crooked administration might help is they're forced to personally deal with what they've created.
Didn't DeSantis do the same thing?
The left of politics "skreamed blue murder" when that was done, also.
NIMBY-itis (Not In My Back Yard)?
I posted recently about an incident where I gave money to a refugee who was unfazed by $20. She grabbed hold of my hand and started praying for $100, in Jesus name. Now, I'm a believer in prayer and Jesus. I think $100 is not a large amount of money, especially if a group of people get together to give it. It was more than I could afford to give, all by myself, that day. I told her so, she began praying for $40. I just withdrew at that point and she accepted the $20.
This is in Florida. And it's only going to get worse. It may take a while, but eventually everyone is going to be touched in some way by the desperation of unchecked immigration, lack of jobs, lack of housing, etc... It can come fast (shipping them to government officials, where they might be considered a nuisance but it's likely they will not be shot) or where Buffalo, N.Y. is giving the go ahead to shoot looters.
Even now, Florida is trying to pass a law where anyone can conceal carry.
This was always going to end in tragedy, it's just a matter of when.
I'm always shocked at the logic of the people who think that any society is capable or willing to shoulder the burden of a large amount of invaders. The First Nations people didn't win, but they fought back.
Some ppl lack practical thinking skills.
Some can't connect the dots between action and consequences.
The same type of thing happened in Germany under the Turtle...
28 Dec 2022, 5:13 am
goldfish21 wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I'm curious why Abbott isn't arrested over these stunts?
Obtuse...
Texas is being OVERRUN, how can you not get this? I'm super glad you live in a world where everyone skips to mylou, there's plenty of space, food, housing for millions of people showing up in a relatively short span of time. We don't, the only way our crooked administration might help is they're forced to personally deal with what they've created.
Didn't DeSantis do the same thing?
The left of politics "skreamed blue murder" when that was done, also.
NIMBY-itis (Not In My Back Yard)?
I posted recently about an incident where I gave money to a refugee who was unfazed by $20. She grabbed hold of my hand and started praying for $100, in Jesus name. Now, I'm a believer in prayer and Jesus. I think $100 is not a large amount of money, especially if a group of people get together to give it. It was more than I could afford to give, all by myself, that day. I told her so, she began praying for $40. I just withdrew at that point and she accepted the $20.
This is in Florida. And it's only going to get worse. It may take a while, but eventually everyone is going to be touched in some way by the desperation of unchecked immigration, lack of jobs, lack of housing, etc... It can come fast (shipping them to government officials, where they might be considered a nuisance but it's likely they will not be shot) or where Buffalo, N.Y. is giving the go ahead to shoot looters.
Even now, Florida is trying to pass a law where anyone can conceal carry.
This was always going to end in tragedy, it's just a matter of when.
I'm always shocked at the logic of the people who think that any society is capable or willing to shoulder the burden of a large amount of invaders. The First Nations people didn't win, but they fought back.
What lack of jobs?
Definitely not in the USA or Canada, where both countries rely on immigration/refugees/migrant workers to fill a variety of construction, agricultural, cleaning, and service sector jobs.. but also manufacturing, skilled trades, healthcare etc.. as well as visas for engineers/tech talent and so on.
So, how many immigrants are skilled workers?
goldfish21 wrote:
USA has 11 Million job openings and only 6 Million unemployed workers, leaving a gap of at least 5 Million workers that need to come from outside the USA.
How many immigrants will be seeking social security?
goldfish21 wrote:
Same thing on a smaller scale in Canada. Pretty much every hands on job is hiring and cannot get enough bodies to put to work - especially in skilled construction trades. It's a GREAT time to be graduating high school and making a decision to get a Trade instead of a big pile of student loan debt.
Over here, some ppl simply don't want to work.
28 Dec 2022, 5:19 am
goldfish21 wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
I guess I should clarify "lack of jobs off the books." Even with the border wide open, there will still be 'stops' along the way. A big draw in Florida, especially in Ocala, Fl. where I grew up, are the horse farms. Hispanic workers can work (be exploited) by working for less cash and remaining hidden from the IRS. The jobs are there, but not enough to accommodate these numbers.
Many, many, many people can come. But the regular businesses will not hire them unless they have a social security number... And the off the books jobs will reach a limit.
Many, many, many people can come. But the regular businesses will not hire them unless they have a social security number... And the off the books jobs will reach a limit.
1. The border is not wide open. It hasn't changed since the last administration, which didn't change all the much from the one before it, really - just a bunch more bluster and BS in the news more than anything.
I believe what you have said qualifies as "nonsense".
Immigration has become a crisis under the Biden administration.
And what makes you such an expert in Ameeerian affairs?
You are a Canadian, after all.
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