China defends buzzing American warship in Taiwan Strait

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ASPartOfMe
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04 Jun 2023, 8:53 pm

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China’s defense minister defended sailing a warship across the path of an American destroyer and Canadian frigate transiting the Taiwan Strait, telling a gathering of some of the world’s top defense officials in Singapore on Sunday that such so-called “freedom of navigation” patrols are a provocation to China.

In his first international public address since becoming defense minister in March, Gen. Li Shangfu told the Shangri-La Dialogue that China doesn’t have any problems with “innocent passage” but that “we must prevent attempts that try to use those freedom of navigation (patrols), that innocent passage, to exercise hegemony of navigation.”

U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin told the same forum Saturday that Washington would not “flinch in the face of bullying or coercion” from China and would continue regularly sailing through and flying over the Taiwan Strait and the South China Sea to emphasize they are international waters, countering Beijing’s sweeping territorial claim.

That same day a U.S. guided-missile destroyer and a Canadian frigate were intercepted by a Chinese warship in the strait dividing the self-governed island of Taiwan, which Beijing claims as its own, and mainland China. The Chinese vessel overtook the American ship and then veered across its bow at a distance of 150 yards (about 140 meters) in an “unsafe manner,” according to the U.S. Indo-Pacific Command.

Additionally, the U.S. has said a Chinese J-16 fighter jet late last month “performed an unnecessarily aggressive maneuver” while intercepting a U.S. Air Force reconnaissance aircraft over the South China Sea, flying directly in front of the plane’s nose.

Those and previous incidents have raised concerns of a possible accident occurring that could lead to an escalation between the two nations at a time when tensions are already high.

Li suggested the U.S. and its allies had created the danger, and should instead should focus on taking “good care of your own territorial airspace and waters.”

“The best way is for the countries, especially the naval vessels and fighter jets of countries, not to do closing actions around other countries’ territories,” he said through an interpreter. “What’s the point of going there? In China we always say, ‘Mind your own business.’”

In a wide-ranging speech, Li reiterated many of Beijing’s well-known positions, including its claim on Taiwan, calling it “the core of our core interests.”

He accused the U.S. and others of “meddling in China’s internal affairs” by providing Taiwan with defense support and training, and conducting high-level diplomatic visit

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goldfish21
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05 Jun 2023, 5:22 pm

I just read the first section of the wiki entry on Taiwan seeking to find out for myself if Taiwan is an independent country or it isn't.. and the answer is clear as mud: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan

Seems various rulers in the region have been playing capture the flag with their island or two for the last 400+ years and it's not really crystal clear whether they're a country or a part of China. Seems it depends on who you ask. Same outside the region with only 13 of 193 UN countries recognize Taiwan as an independent country - and Canada isn't one of them. (ofc we're not.. why would Canada go against our Chinese overlords' wishes? China has IMMENSE amounts of money invested in Canada.. and he who holds the gold makes the rules. Hell, they literally own entire mines here - probably gold mines among them.)

Strangely, the USA is not on the list of UN countries that recognizes Taiwan as an independent nation state, either.. yet the USA and Canada patrol there in "international waters," to assert the fact that it IS an independent country. Very strange.

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mrpieceofwork
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05 Jun 2023, 5:35 pm

Why is the US military in that part of the world? Why is it in ANY part of the world, for that matter? And is it the Chinese STATE that is "owning" resources in the west, or is it individuals/corporations? (yes, China has to deal with capitalism and the psychopaths it coddles just like the rest of us)

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goldfish21
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05 Jun 2023, 6:02 pm

Another google result says the previous government of China had claim to Taiwan as it's territory, but the current government only has mainland China but then claims Taiwan is under it's control under it's one China policy.. so it seems the dispute is somewhat between the previous and current governments of China. Kinda.

mrpieceofwork wrote:

Team America; World Police! :ninja:

USA has positioned itself as numero uno world super power by military might. They go where they want and take what they want. Has been the way of the world since long before any of the modern concepts of government or military even existed. Just human nature I suppose. Expand and conquer.. for power & control, ego, etc.

Both - but for big mega projects like a mine or a port, even if on paper it's a private corporation, if you follow the money on up they're all state owned/funded by China so trying to decipher the difference expecting there to be one is a bit moot.

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funeralxempire
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05 Jun 2023, 6:06 pm

At some point the ROC and PRC will need to come to terms about their overlapping claims.

There's nothing wrong with the ROC seeking external support though. Between economic arguments (semiconductors, for starters) and defence agreements, the US is kinda obliged to remain involved in that region.

The US (and most others) don't recognize the ROC as China, but they do have some amount of diplomatic ties. At least one contributing factor is that ROC doesn't claim to be independent Taiwan, they're the Republic of China with slightly more mainland claims than even the PRC.

The US, Canada and others recognizing the PRC as China is largely tied to Cold War era realpolitik, not 'Chinese overlords' nonsense. When China and the USSR had a falling out, the west courted China - that's why Nixon went to China.

Part of that deal involved no longer recognizing the ROC, but we'd flip in a heartbeat if and when an independent Taiwan declares independence and renounces mainland claims.

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mrpieceofwork
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05 Jun 2023, 6:27 pm

Thanks. Those were rhetorical questions. I am fully aware what this country that I've been stuck in my entire life is doing around the world. Further, is China REALLY trying to "take over", or is that scare mongering by the powers that be? (western version) (and is it a bad thing that socialism spreads?)

If you're interested, this video does a great job at dialectically looking at the Chinese state...

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goldfish21
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05 Jun 2023, 6:30 pm

IMO, 100% yes China is planning a global takeover - but it's not like other prior conquerors that do it by force. It's a much longer term 100+ year plan to do it by economic takeover. See their belt & road initiative to steal money/ports/railroads/airports etc from a lot of different countries. etc etc. IF they can keep their own house in order while they do it (their own banking & real estate systems are a house of cards) then maybe they do have a chance of becoming the dominant super power in the world.

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funeralxempire
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05 Jun 2023, 6:33 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

Yes, China seeks to create a multipolar world.

You're aware that the western bloc has already done exactly what we complain China is planning to do, right?

Both the 'taking over the world' part and the predatory lending practices part.

naturalplastic
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05 Jun 2023, 8:46 pm

Lessee...

The battleship U.S.S. Maine accidentally exploded in Havanna harbor, and that triggered the Spanish American War.

Then in 1916 the German U boat sank the British ocean liner Lusitania drowning 1100 people including 100 Americans rivaling the Titanic. That helped pull the US into the First World War.

Then in 1941 the Japanese bombed the US fleet at Pearl Harbor and brought the US into WWII.

In 1964 two US destroyers were allegedly attack by North Vietnamese PT boats in the Gult of Tonkin...and that was the justification for President Johnson to escalate Vietnam into a full scale war.

And now we have Chinese and US navy ships playing chicken with each other off of Taiwan.

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