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iamnotaparakeet
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30 May 2008, 3:21 pm

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:?:

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So often, there are two stories to be heard when one hears of the latest ‘missing link’ finds: the popular media story and the proper story told in the science journals that rarely gets a mention. This has especially been the case this year with fish-to-frog evolution, with the discoveries of the Tiktaalik fossil and a new species of ‘walking’ shark recently paraded in the media as if they were irrefutable proof of fish-to-frog evolution. Now a new candidate has stepped up to take the spotlight: a magnificently preserved fish fossil called Gogonasus. Gogonasus has received the usual media parade reserved for ‘missing links’, boldly proclaiming that the fins are ‘like human arms’.1 As usual, the original Nature article2 is far more conservative about the claims. So what is the actual story behind this fossil?


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Ragtime
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30 May 2008, 3:50 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
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fish with human arms





Um... wow. I'm, like, not really that impressed. ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz...........
Ya, just look at those human arms! :lol:


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Xelebes
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30 May 2008, 4:03 pm

Did you ever look at the skeleton of the fish? that might help to see what their are claiming to be human-like.



iamnotaparakeet
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30 May 2008, 4:24 pm

Xelebes wrote:
Did you ever look at the skeleton of the fish? that might help to see what their are claiming to be human-like.


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Kilroy
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30 May 2008, 4:28 pm

yeah we definitely evolved from something like that



iamnotaparakeet
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30 May 2008, 4:48 pm

Kilroy wrote:
yeah we definitely evolved from something like that


I rather think we evolved from the magical tooth of gingivitis...



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30 May 2008, 11:13 pm

The number of proto-tetrapod fossils turning up in the past few years, starting with Acanthostega, is nothing short of remarkable. The combo of these fossils and our knowledge of how tetrapod limbs develop embryologically is making it very obvious how hands/feet evolved. The ulna bone became longer and the "proto-wrist" bones came to curve around the end of the radius bone. some of these "proto-wrist" bones then evolved into fingers/toes


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iamnotaparakeet
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31 May 2008, 6:30 am

Got any good just-so stories as to how the intermediates survived or, better yet, had a survival advantage compared to non mutant varieties?



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31 May 2008, 7:44 am

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Everyone remembered hearing about the prehistorical shark found in Japan right?

A fish with human arms really 8O Just kidding but it would be interesting to see.


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iamnotaparakeet
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31 May 2008, 9:36 am

JerryHatake wrote:
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Everyone remembered hearing about the prehistorical shark found in Japan right?

A fish with human arms really 8O Just kidding but it would be interesting to see.


That's a cool fish!



sartresue
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31 May 2008, 11:19 am

Arms and scales topic

This is what happens when there is global warming, water pollution, and when Charlie the Tuna has been given human growth hormones. :o 8O


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Odin
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31 May 2008, 7:37 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Got any good just-so stories as to how the intermediates survived or, better yet, had a survival advantage compared to non mutant varieties?


The proto-tetrapods were ambush predators that lived in vegetation-clogged, shallow, fresh-water environments, the fleshy fins helped the animals to navigate around all the vegetation. This dense shallow water vegetation had actually just developed at the time; in the late Devonian the first true trees with true woody tissue, the ancestors of all living plants with seeds, were the first plants to have very deep roots and these roots profoundly altered the chemistry of the soil. The result was a substantial increase in how much nutrients were entering bodies of fresh water, leading to a boom in shallow-water vegetation. The result was eutrophication, which may have been a contributing factor in causing the Late Devonian Mass Extinction. However, these vegetation-chocked environments were a new ecological niche waiting to be filled, and the predator role was filled by the line of lobe-finned fish that gave rise to tetrapods. Paleontologist and expert on lobe-finned fish and early tetrapods Jenny Clack has an excellent book on this called Gaining Ground, the tetrapod limb originally evolved for living in shallow water and only later, in the early Carboniferous, did early tetrapods lineages that were terrestrial.


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Odin
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31 May 2008, 8:49 pm

Here is the Wiki article on Gogonasus, the fish mentioned in the OP:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gogonasus

This guy is pretty much right at the base of the Tetrapodomorpha (tetrapods and lobe-finned fish, like Tiktaalik, closely related to them) and is a good representative of the "archetypal Devonian lobe-fined fish."

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Gogonasus (meaning "snout from Gogo") was a lobe-finned fish known from 3-dimensionally preserved 380 million-year-old fossils found from the Gogo Formation in Western Australia. It lived in the late Devonian period, on what was once a 1400 kilometre coral reef off the Kimberley coast surrounding the north-west of Australia. Its skeleton shows several features that were like those of a four-legged land animal (tetrapod). They included the structure of its middle ear, and its fins show the precursors of the forearm bones, the radius and ulna. Researchers believe it used its forearm-like fins to dart out of the reef to catch prey.

Gogonasus was first described from a single snout (ethmosphenoid) by John Long (1985). On Long's 1986 expedition to Gogo the first relatively complete skull of Gogonasus was found by Chris Nelson and after being prepared solved a scientific controversy by showing that the inner large fangs of the coronoid bones did not insert into the choana of the palate (Long 1988) as had been suggested by Rosen et al (1981) for Eusthenopteron. In 1990 a combined expedition from the Western Australian Museum and the Australian National University yielded another almost complete skull of Gogonasus, this one found by Dr R.E. Barwick. The full description of its cranial anatomy appeared in Long, J. A., Barwick, R. E. & Campbell, K.S.W. (1997), although not all aspects of the skull were clear then even from the 3 specimens. In 2005 Long lead another expedition back to Gogo and on July 11th one of the team members, Dr Tim Senden from the Australian National University, found a very well-preserved skeleton of Gogonasus, containing almost the complete fish down to the tip of the tail. It was Dr Senden's first field trip with the other researchers.

The specimen is now held at Museum Victoria, after nearly 4 months of acetic acid preparation by John Long. The new specimen showed some surprising new data not seen in any of the other specimens. Firstly, there were large spiracular openings on top of the skull, with a distinct down folded cosmine-covered lamina of bone present on the tabular bone. This indicated its spiracles were almost as large as in the elpistostegalian fishes (like Tiktaalik) and early tetrapods (eg Acanthostega). Secondly, after preparation of its pectoral fins, the internal limb skeleton showed closer resemblances to that of the elpistostegalians than to other more generalised tetrapodomorph fishes like Eusthenopteron. For almost 100 years Eusthenopteron had been the well-used role model for demonstrating stages in the evolution of lobe-finned fishes to tetrapods. Gogonasus now replaces Eusthenopteron in being a better preserved representative without any ambiguity in interpreting its anatomy (as had been shown for example by Rosen et al. 1981 when erroneously reconstructing ithe fit of the lower jaws to the palate). Gogonasus is in superficial look similar to the generalised tetrapodomorph fishes like Osteolepis from Scotland, but in its advanced features shows that even primitive-looking cosmine-covered forms evolved significant specializations towards becoming tetrapod-like.

Gogonasus is just one of the almost 45 species of 3-dimensionally preserved fishes from the Gogo Formation deposit. It is the only Devonian site in the world to yield whole complete fishes in perfect uncrushed preservation in some specimens.


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iamnotaparakeet
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31 May 2008, 9:16 pm

Last part is really interesting:

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Gogo Formation deposit. It is the only Devonian site in the world to yield whole complete fishes in perfect uncrushed preservation in some specimens.


That is amazing.

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JerryHatake
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31 May 2008, 11:26 pm

Another Prehistoric Shark in Japan

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JerryHatake
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31 May 2008, 11:27 pm

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... photo.html

My first shark picture are from this link.


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