It's not just boys who are autistic

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KenG
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05 Jun 2008, 5:53 am

When it was first discovered more than 60 years ago, Asperger's syndrome was thought to be a male-only condition. But now that more and more girls are being diagnosed with it, why do we hear so little about them, wonders Joanna Moorhead:
http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk:80/ ... 87,00.html

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Pandora
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05 Jun 2008, 6:56 am

Yes. There are still people who actually believe that girls and women can't be autistic. This is an utter disaster for females with the condition as they face not only the issues associated with autism but a denial that they even have it.

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Pobodys_Nerfect
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05 Jun 2008, 7:02 am

At the end of the day it's what you do with what you've got.

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05 Jun 2008, 7:04 am

Yeah, but that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying as a woman with Asperger's, I'm not even recognised as having the condition and therefore face unrealistic pressures to conform and perform. From what I've read over the past few years, that is not uncommon either.

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ouinon
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05 Jun 2008, 7:40 am

Great article; thank you for posting it, Ken.

Totally agree with the extra pressure of being AS and a woman.

AS produces such a lot of behaviour outside the "feminine" stereotype. Autistic behaviours in a woman seem to attract some of the most loathing labels, like lesbian, ( which when you are a teenager, and have no positive lesbian role models, is the end of the world ) just needs a good f***, ( because you are "serious", and don't laugh at stupid jokes, and are anxious/uptight about things) or, if she is trying in a confused way to "do the feminine thing" but failing, artificial, or confused, she is a pr**kteaser, frigid, ( because in bed with a man not out of desire but because are doing what think are supposed to do) , a flirt, promiscuous, etc.

I was labelled, or labelled myself , with almost all of these at one time or another, having been through both periods of trying desperately to conform, to "be" a "real" woman, and periods of rebellion, and/or withdrawal, etc.

I actually suspect that it is possible that as many women are on the AS spectrum as men, but we are camouflaged more, make more effort socially, ... and give rise to feminist movements when it all just gets too much for us/too intolerable.

If women didn't have to dress so stupidly to look the part, wear all this gunk on their faces, wear such peculiar fetishistic tight and uncomfortable garments as bras, ( which are purely cosmetic and an invention of a man, nothing to do wth health or comfort) , and didn't have to wear horrible nylon fake skin on legs under skirts, and shoes which have nothing to do with protecting your feet from the cold, or rough/hard surfaces, as men's do, and didn't have to agree with every inanity uttered by a man in authority over her at work, and wasn't expected to smile and smile and smile, then possibly being an AS woman wouldn't be such a problem.

:study:

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05 Jun 2008, 9:32 am

ouinon wrote:

Great article; thank you for posting it, Ken.

Totally agree with the extra pressure of being AS and a woman.

AS produces such a lot of behaviour outside the "feminine" stereotype. Autistic behaviours in a woman seem to attract some of the most loathing labels, like lesbian, ( which when you are a teenager, and have no positive lesbian role models, is the end of the world ) just needs a good f***, ( because you are "serious", and don't laugh at stupid jokes, and are anxious/uptight about things) or, if she is trying in a confused way to "do the feminine thing" but failing, artificial, or confused, she is a pr**kteaser, frigid, ( because in bed with a man not out of desire but because are doing what think are supposed to do) , a flirt, promiscuous, etc.

I was labelled, or labelled myself , with almost all of these at one time or another, having been through both periods of trying desperately to conform, to "be" a "real" woman, and periods of rebellion, and/or withdrawal, etc.

I actually suspect that it is possible that as many women are on the AS spectrum as men, but we are camouflaged more, make more effort socially, ... and give rise to feminist movements when it all just gets too much for us/too intolerable.

If women didn't have to dress so stupidly to look the part, wear all this gunk on their faces, wear such peculiar fetishistic tight and uncomfortable garments as bras, ( which are purely cosmetic and an invention of a man, nothing to do wth health or comfort) , and didn't have to wear horrible nylon fake skin on legs under skirts, and shoes which have nothing to do with protecting your feet from the cold, or rough/hard surfaces, as men's do, and didn't have to agree with every inanity uttered by a man in authority over her at work, and wasn't expected to smile and smile and smile, then possibly being an AS woman wouldn't be such a problem.

:study:

Well put. Especially the bit about being called names at school and trying to fit in.

sartresue
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05 Jun 2008, 10:47 am

I am FemAutistic topic

Female autistics are different, both from NT females and Autistic males.I am more visual than spatial, so I am not "typically" autistic, but I am more visual than most NT women. I score average in block testing, but I am very much a picture thinker. I can reproduce a visual design on paper after looking at it for a reasonable period of time. But I am not an artist. I use the visuals as pictures so that I may use words to describe them.

But nuclear physics as a vocation is out of the question. But it is interesting to read about.

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CanyonWind
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05 Jun 2008, 10:49 am

I think it's pretty clear that there are more female aspies out there than most people realize.

But stuff like this quote from the article don't accomplish anything except proving there are people who don't know what they're talking about:

Quote:

Nor would it have mattered so much, Postgate argues, if she had been born male - even undiagnosed, men with autism can live a life that is high-performing, acceptable and rewarding, she believes. "At school I was bright, but eccentric. If I had been a boy, that would have been tolerated more. I'd have gone into science, I'm sure - I might have gone on to be a nuclear physicist. I'd have met some girl who would have become my supportive wife and she would have made up for my social shortcomings, in the eyes of the world, and I'd have been the rather odd but brilliant professor who couldn't really handle social occasions but who was always well looked-after by his lovely wife, and who did so many wonderful things at work that none of it mattered anyway.

"Instead of that, though, I have achieved practically nothing. Relationships, like jobs, have gone out of the window - I've not had the self-awareness to hold down either.

Being an autistic woman has been pivotal to everything that's happened to me. If I'd been an autistic man, my story could have been very different."

Sure, this describes the experience of some male aspies. If you gathered up all the male aspies who have this kind of life, they'd all fit comfortably in a Volkswagen.

I have a daughter who is obviously aspie, and the difficulties she has to deal with seem awfully similar to the difficulties I had to deal with, the difficulties I still have to deal with.

I think it would be a good thing if male and female aspies could manage to work together on this, if we could help each other. I'd like it if my daughter's life turns out better than mine has.

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05 Jun 2008, 10:57 am

Quote:

It appears that many girls with Asperger's Syndrome have the same profile of abilities as boys but a subtler or less severe expression of the characteristics. Parents may be reluctant to seek a diagnostic assessment if the child appears to be coping reasonably well and clinicians may be hesitant to commit themselves to a diagnosis unless the signs are conspicuously different to the normal range of behaviour and abilities.

We have a stereotype of typical female and male behaviour. Girls are more able to verbalise their emotions and less likely to use physically aggressive acts in response to negative emotions such as confusion, frustration and anger. We do not know whether this is a cultural or constitutional characteristic but we recognise that children who are aggressive are more likely to be referred for a diagnostic assessment to determine whether the behaviour is due to a specific developmental disorder and for advice on behaviour management. Hence boys with Asperger's Syndrome are more often referred to a psychologists or psychiatrist because their aggression has become a concern for their parents or schoolteacher. A consequence of this referral bias is that not only are more boys referred, clinicians and academics can have a false impression of the incidence of aggression in this population.

One must always consider the personality of the person with Asperger's Syndrome and how they cope with the difficulties they experience in social reasoning, empathy and cognition. Some individuals are overtly active participants in social situations. Their unusual profile of abilities in social situations is quite obvious. However, some are reluctant to socialise with others and their personality can be described as passive. They can become quite adept at camouflaging their difficulties and clinical experience suggests that the passive personality is more common in girls.

...

We know that children with Asperger's Syndrome elicit from others, either strong maternal or `predatory' behaviour. If the person's natural peer group is girls, they are more likely to be supported and included by a greater majority of their peers. Thus girls with Asperger's Syndrome are often `mothered' by other girls. They may prompt the child when they are unsure what to do or say in social situations and comfort them when they are distressed. In contrast, boys are notorious for their intolerance of children who are different and are more prone to be `predatory'. This can have an unfortunate effect on the behaviour of a boy with Asperger's Syndrome and many complain of being teased, ignored and bullied by other boys.

the rest of the article is at http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/b ... 4/id26.htm

I think this explains why more boys are diagnosed than girls. I experienced alot of this. I never wanted to talk in class because I didn't want to bother anyone, and the only time I was included with girls is when I was being 'mothered' other than that I didn't have friends. I always felt lesser like everyone was talking down to me, I still do. I still have imaginary friends or characters in my head I play with and I am 20. Bleh. So yeah.

Also about the bra thing. Some women need a bra. If I go without a bra for more than thirty minutes they hurt. So they aren't entirely cosmetic some need them for health reasons and for comfort. But anything else is useless like make up or high heels or dresses.

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