We can't ignore the links between mobile phones and cancer

Page 1 of 1 [ 15 posts ] 

ShadesOfMe
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 16,983
Location: California

monty
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Sep 2007
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,741

27 Sep 2008, 10:19 am

It is a real concern, although the magnitude of the risk is not yet clear. I have a cell phone, but prefer not to use it that much.



ShawnWilliam
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,462

27 Sep 2008, 12:56 pm

You have to be kidding me.. first of all, radio frequencies do not harm the body. . in fact sound vibrations can effect the body, but you show me one example where it is knowingly doing harm. This is another scare, meant to get people afraid of yet another thing that we take for granted (communication devices)..

There are radio frequencies that can heal damaged DNA, (528 hz). . this is a potential cure for cancer, but not information that we are meant to know, and certainly it is known by these 'top scientists' who are warning about these cell phone risks.. LOL. You don't have to ask me why I don't trust them.

But take a look at this, it's a good place to learn about frequencies, and their healing powers.


http://liberatedlinguists.ning.com/prof ... st%3A17847



monty
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Sep 2007
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,741

27 Sep 2008, 1:49 pm

ShawnWilliam wrote:
You have to be kidding me.. first of all, radio frequencies do not harm the body. .


Baloney. Radar is based on radio waves; microwaves are radio waves. The first microwave oven was called a Radar Range and it came from the observation that radar technicians felt warm when working on the antennas that were switched on. The idea that radio frequencies do not harm the body has less support than the notion that fluoride does not harm the body.



ShawnWilliam
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,462

27 Sep 2008, 2:17 pm

monty wrote:
ShawnWilliam wrote:
You have to be kidding me.. first of all, radio frequencies do not harm the body. .


Baloney. Radar is based on radio waves; microwaves are radio waves. The first microwave oven was called a Radar Range and it came from the observation that radar technicians felt warm when working on the antennas that were switched on. The idea that radio frequencies do not harm the body has less support than the notion that fluoride does not harm the body.


So you're saying that cell phones are miniature microwaves?..

I see a vast difference between sound waves VV

http://liberatedlinguists.ning.com/prof ... st%3A17847


and microwaves. But if you're telling me that they are the same..



monty
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Sep 2007
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,741

27 Sep 2008, 3:08 pm

ShawnWilliam wrote:

So you're saying that cell phones are miniature microwaves?..

I see a vast difference between sound waves VV
and microwaves. But if you're telling me that they are the same..


I am saying that radar and microwaves are types of radio waves, and that one cannot assume that radio waves are harmless. Sound waves are generally not a problem unless loud, except for certain frequencies (like fingernails on the chalk board, which have biological effects that cannot be predicted from their intensity); for radio waves, it is hard to say.

There have been some studies to suggest that acoustic neuroma (cancer in or around nerves of the ear) is more common in people who used cell phones intensively. It is not certain, though, as it can take 10-30 years from exposure to disease, and the studies that are out there were mostly for older cell phones (different frequency, higher intensity).

Here is a recent study that attempts to analyze and summarize the research - they came to the conclusion that there is an increased risk of brain tumors from cell phones, and that the side that a person held the phone on (ipsilateral) was at greater risk while the opposite side of the head (contralateral) was not.

Quote:
Int J Oncol. 2008 May;32(5):1097-103.
Meta-analysis of long-term mobile phone use and the association with brain tumours.
Hardell L, Carlberg M, Söderqvist F, Hansson Mild K.

Department of Oncology, University Hospital, SE-701 85 Orebro, Sweden.

We evaluated long-term use of mobile phones and the risk for brain tumours in case-control studies published so far on this issue. We identified ten studies on glioma and meta-analysis yielded OR = 0.9, 95% CI = 0.8-1.1. Latency period of > or =10-years gave OR = 1.2, 95% CI = 0.8-1.9 based on six studies, for ipsilateral use (same side as tumour) OR = 2.0, 95% CI = 1.2-3.4 (four studies), but contralateral use did not increase the risk significantly, OR = 1.1, 95% CI = 0.6-2.0. Meta-analysis of nine studies on acoustic neuroma gave OR = 0.9, 95% CI = 0.7-1.1 increasing to OR = 1.3, 95% CI = 0.6-2.8 using > or =10-years latency period (four studies). Ipsilateral use gave OR = 2.4, 95% CI = 1.1-5.3 and contra-lateral OR = 1.2, 95% CI = 0.7-2.2 in the > or =10-years latency period group (three studies). Seven studies gave results for meningioma yielding overall OR = 0.8, 95% CI = 0.7-0.99. Using > or =10-years latency period OR = 1.3, 95% CI = 0.9-1.8 was calculated (four studies) increasing to OR = 1.7, 95% CI = 0.99-3.1 for ipsilateral use and OR = 1.0, 95% CI = 0.3-3.1 for contralateral use (two studies). We conclude that this meta-analysis gave a consistent pattern of an association between mobile phone use and ipsilateral glioma and acoustic neuroma using > or =10-years latency period.


According to this analysis, there was an 30% to 70% increase in risk of brain tumors in people with more than 10 years of cell phone use, and some of the studies put the risk at a 240% increase. Because these types of tumors are relatively rare, that may be an acceptable risk to most people even if the risk were doubled or tripled. By way comparison, car accidents are much, much more common, and around 40,000 USians die each year yet no one is talking about banning cars ... the benefits of being able to move really really fast seem to make the risk worthwhile.



ShawnWilliam
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,462

27 Sep 2008, 4:05 pm

Okay, fair enough.. cell phones can cause harm. By the way I don't know how to read that jumble of numbers and statistics that you boldly pointed out there.. can you read it for me, Mr. expert?



monty
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Sep 2007
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,741

27 Sep 2008, 4:36 pm

I translated the highlights to English previously :) Probably an increased risk of 30% to 200%, according to the studies reviewed.

Glioma, neuroma, meningioma - types of cancer of the nervous system.

Latency period - lag between exposure to an insult and the manifestation of injury. For many carcinogens, this can be several decades, which is why they compared people with 10 or more years cell phone use to others.

OR = Odds Ratio an OR of 1.0 is normal or average risk for a population. Less than 0 indicates possible risk reduction, ie, fewer neural tube defects when taking folic acid. A high OR may indicate involvement in dangerous stuff (I think smoking increases the OR of lung cancer by 9 or so; it increases the risk of heart disease to a lesser degree, but kills more people that way. Higher or lower OR could also indicate a sub-population (genetic, behavioral, or otherwise).

CI - confidence interval, like the margin of error in public opinion polls - we can be reasonably sure that the real value is between that expanded range, based on statistical theory.



jrknothead
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Aug 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,423

27 Sep 2008, 4:40 pm

Microwaves and radio waves are the same thing- vibrations. Vibrations at certain frequencies can be devastatingly destructive. Microwaves are vibrations at a frequency that produces a wavelength equal to the size of a molecule of water, which excites the water molecules, causing them to generate heat.

The wavelength that can supposedly repair damaged DNA is not yet refined or controllable enough to use practically, but eventually those bugs will be worked out and the technology will become very useful and widespread. It is far easier to damage a thing by vibration than to repair it.

The frequencies used by cell phones, radios and televisions do not excite water or harm DNA. If they did, we'd all be dead because all of us have been bathed in this radiation since birth. Any place where a radio or cell phone can pick up a signal is constantly under the effect of these vibrations.

Today, everyone has a cell phone, and we don't see half the population dropping dead from it.

Contrast that with a real ailment caused by technology, like carpal tunnel syndrome. Carpal tunnel syndrome and other repetitive motion ailments were almost unheard of before the advent of keyboards, today they are quite common. Actions taken by the industry to make keyboards more ergonomic have greatly reduced the occurrence of these ailments.

Cell phone companies can't fix their phones to reduce cancer rates, because the phones don't cause cancer to begin with.



monty
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Sep 2007
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,741

27 Sep 2008, 5:09 pm

jrknothead wrote:
Cell phone companies can't fix their phones to reduce cancer rates, because the phones don't cause cancer to begin with.


The studies reviewed above show that they do. This may an indirect effect - there is a fairly large body of research that shows exposure to electromagnetic radiation can disrupt circadian cycles and melatonin production, for example. It is known that melatonin affects and regulates the immune system, and is not a stretch to suggest that impaired melatonin patterns could allow the growth of mutated cells that would otherwise be brought under control.

Here's a study that found that cell phone radiation did not directly cause DNA changes in sperm, but it did reduce their motility, viability, and increased levels of reactive oxygen species. A fair number of scientists believe that ROS can increase cancer over the long run.

Quote:
Fertil Steril. 2008 Sep 18.
Effects of radiofrequency electromagnetic waves (RF-EMW) from cellular phones on human ejaculated semen: an in vitro pilot study.
Agarwal A, Desai NR, Makker K, Varghese A, Mouradi R, Sabanegh E, Sharma R.

Center for Reproductive Medicine, Glickman Urological and Kidney Institute, Cleveland Clinic, Cleveland, Ohio; Obstetrics and Gynecology and Women's Health Institute, Cleveland Clinic Cleveland, Ohio.

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate effects of cellular phone radiofrequency electromagnetic waves (RF-EMW) during talk mode on unprocessed (neat) ejaculated human semen. DESIGN: Prospective pilot study. SETTING: Center for reproductive medicine laboratory in tertiary hospital setting. SAMPLES: Neat semen samples from normal healthy donors (n = 23) and infertile patients (n = 9). INTERVENTION(S): After liquefaction, neat semen samples were divided into two aliquots. One aliquot (experimental) from each patient was exposed to cellular phone radiation (in talk mode) for 1 h, and the second aliquot (unexposed) served as the control sample under identical conditions. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE(S): Evaluation of sperm parameters (motility, viability), reactive oxygen species (ROS), total antioxidant capacity (TAC) of semen, ROS-TAC score, and sperm DNA damage. RESULT(S): Samples exposed to RF-EMW showed a significant decrease in sperm motility and viability, increase in ROS level, and decrease in ROS-TAC score. Levels of TAC and DNA damage showed no significant differences from the unexposed group. CONCLUSION(S): Radiofrequency electromagnetic waves emitted from cell phones may lead to oxidative stress in human semen. We speculate that keeping the cell phone in a trouser pocket in talk mode may negatively affect spermatozoa and impair male fertility.


Quote:
Contrast that with a real ailment caused by technology, like carpal tunnel syndrome. Carpal tunnel syndrome and other repetitive motion ailments were almost unheard of before the advent of keyboards, today they are quite common. Actions taken by the industry to make keyboards more ergonomic have greatly reduced the occurrence of these ailments.


Carpal tunnel is real but over-diagnosed. There are many other repetitive stress disorders, and these can be caused by keyboarding or price-scanning. But if your doctor wants to do carpal tunnel surgery without two separate nerve conduction tests, he doesn't know his head from your back pocket.



Last edited by monty on 27 Sep 2008, 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tweety_fan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Oct 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,555

27 Sep 2008, 5:17 pm

at my secondary schools senior campus (where u went for the last 2 years) it has a mobile phone tower in the yard that is fenced off, as in it is in the property but behind fences.



monty
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Sep 2007
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,741

27 Sep 2008, 5:26 pm

One thing about radiation is that the intensity or power drops of fairly quickly as distance increases - moving a cell phone a few inches away from your head reduces the risk greatly. I suspect that in the future, the actual transmitter part will be kept farther away from the body.

If the radiation is omni-directional (spreads equally in all directions), then the power decreases based on distance-cubed. That means that moving something twice as far away will decrease the power by a factor of 8. Fences? Useful for keeping kids out, but not for keeping radio waves in. I have no idea what sort of risk the situation you describe might have for people.



ShawnWilliam
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,462

27 Sep 2008, 7:49 pm

Quote:
The wavelength that can supposedly repair damaged DNA is not yet refined or controllable enough to use practically, but eventually those bugs will be worked out and the technology will become very useful and widespread. It is far easier to damage a thing by vibration than to repair it.


I disagree with you there, scientists already use the frequency 528 hz to repair damaged DNA, but a long time ago you would be shot for even having this knowledge... it is clear that the knowledge the public has is always far far behind the knowledge that the scientists have.. you should know this. knowledge is power, do not put the power in the hands of the people.



jrknothead
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Aug 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,423

27 Sep 2008, 9:35 pm

Shawn, someone's been feeding you bogus info... 528 hz is in the audible spectrum, and can be produced on a wide variety of musical instruments... on a piano, 528 hz is the "C" note one octave above middle c... if merely generating this tone could repair DNA, then anyone who listens to or plays music would be immune to genetic defects, which is obviously not the case...

528 hz has a wavelength way too long to affect DNA...

A yahoo search on the subject reveals a host of health claims made by people who all want to sell you something, but absolutely nothing scientific... judging from the fact that all of these sites use the exact same wording in their claims, it would seem that all of these sites got this information from the same source, although none of them identify what source that is...

Obviously, none of these people have been shot for having this knowledge, and since DNA is a relatively recent discovery, I find it doubtful that this supposed knowledge was in existence 'a long time ago'...



Eggman
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,676

28 Sep 2008, 2:26 pm

sure we can!