Yank justice by proxy

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/3813113/Fears-for-shoe-throwing-journalist-as-he-fails-to-appear-in-court.html

Isn't it great how ol' Uncle Sam brings peace, justice and the rule of law to far-off lands?

What is interesting to note is that the man's fellow citizens got to him first, and were videotaped kicking and beating him before the Secret Service got anywhere near him.

Had the American security people not been there, the attacker would have likely been beaten to death, or detonated a suicide vest instead.

Don't blame the Americans for violence committed by Iraqis against others.

Last edited by Fnord on 17 Dec 2008, 1:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I don't get it.

Let's see... you go into Iraq purportedly to overthrow an evil dictator who beat, tortured and killed political opposition. Your president boasts how your military will bring the Iraqi people the joys of US-style freedom, justice and democracy. Then, when you're several years into the project, a dissenter throws a few shoes at 'ol Bush, and ends up getting beaten half to death. Who should we blame? What should we make of it?

First off, don't blame me for any of this. GWB ordered those troups into Iraq against my advice. Blame GWB.

Second, there is still a very strong anti-American propaganda machine in operation; so strong that if word got out that it was American engineers who supervised construction of the shrines and security systems around the Qaba Stone, millions of Moslems would blow themselves up in shame. Blame ignorant people who post inflammatory words against America.

Third, the dissenter chose to attack GWB of his own free will, thus making the attack entirely his fault. Blame the attacker.

Fourth, it was Iraqi security forces that beat up the attacker, not Americans, thus making his injuries the fault of those same security forces. Blame the Iraqis.

Finally, get your facts straight before making any more hate-filled posts. I blame you.

I'm not blaming you, Fnord. You brought "blame" to the discussion, not me. As you decided to introduce that idea, and it was clearly on your mind, I merely sought to elicit a further explanation. And why do you believe my posts are hate-filled? I simply reported a news item from a respectable newspaper, introducing it with a provocative title. Yes, there could be a degree of anti-American propaganda influencing the original source, but whatever the truth is, it is significant in marking where your country is in its bid to bring western-style values to a muslim country. I watched a news item the other day, and one of your compatriots bragged that the fact that nothing bad had happened to the shoe-thrower was evidence of your country's achievements. It seems that may have been a little premature. What do you think?

You seem to blame America for the lack of peace, justice, and the rule of law in far-off lands.

The fellow that claimed that nothing bad happening to the shoe-thrower was evidence of America's achievements was sadly misinformed, and did not have the sense to realize that one is not derived from the other.

Are you making the mistake that all Americans are alike, that we all approve of GWB's words and actions, and that we are all somehow responsible for what happened thousands of miles off our shores?

Or are you just trolling for attention?

Fnord, I've been here since February 2005. In that long time I've made a fraction of the post you have in your short stay here. With that in mind, and considering your hostile reaction to my attempts at discussion, I'd humbly suggest it was more likely you that desired the spotlight, and not me. Moreover, this is a thread I started, so if you've no desire to be civil, and to engage in rational discourse, then simply don't respond.

And no I'm not saying you Americans are all alike, or that you are necessarily personally responsible -- I'm commenting on the actions of your government within the context of the events outlined by an interesting news item. I think it's you confusing that distinction, not me.

"Dont taze me bro" springs to mind here. They HAVE brought American-style freedom and justice to Iraq. Can you not tell? A teenager vociferously disagrees with a politician and gets zapped.. a guy throws a shoe and gets kicked to buggery. Oh say can you seeeeee....

I sold him the shoes.

This does go beyond freedom of the press.

Dubya of all people should not go for a victory lap.

Now he has cause to attack Iran on his last day in office.

The shoe was made in China.

I've seen this before in other forums. There's this strange dichotomy of

"I hate American, and what it stands for, and what it does, and how collectively the politicians are all idiots"

but

"We don't hate the Americans personally"

for some of us, it's hard to separate the two...

Thats because most of us who frequent the net know some Americans personally, and are friends with them. It is difficult to reconcile the ones I know well (friends if you will).. who are all bright, witty, urbane individuals with intelligent commentary to make on the world, with the general mood of blind patriotism, flag-waving ignorance, and brusque rudeness of the general populace, and the apparent warmongering bullying lawlessness of American leadership.

true enough. The thing that tickles me is that there also seems to be a hint of...

"Well, the reason we like Americans is that while individually they may be nice, their government is the source of all evil. They're dupes to believe that there's any substance to their democracy, and they're insufficiently cynical"

but I could be wrong...

We'll see how Iraq fares once we're out. I wouldn't be surprised to see 'Sadaam Lite' in about 10 years or so.

Not much to say, eh?


Twas not I, it seems, who has tried to pin a centuries-old Islamic insult on the actions and polices of America and its citizenry.


This thread is not yours; it is Alex's. If, by defending my country against your implications, I have committed a rude act, then so be it. Leave it to Alex or one of his duly-appointed moderators to chastise me.


"Yank Justice By Proxy" was the subject that you chose. What happened to the shoe-thrower was not "yank justice" - either by direction or by proxy - but merely a continuance of how Islamicists express justice to their own, on their own. THAT is the rationality of the situation, and not "America is the root of all evil."

^ At least he was not taken outside the city and stoned to death, as may be required under Islamic Shariah Law.

Here is a link to a relevant thread that ShadesOfMe began --> LINK


(Mods, I apologise if this is cross-posting, but the linked-to thread does illustrate how radically Sharia Law differs from "Yank Justice.")