davesaint
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Age: 60
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Location: St. Louis, MO
30 May 2007, 7:54 am
davesaint
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 61
Location: St. Louis, MO
30 May 2007, 4:57 pm
30 May 2007, 5:28 pm
30 May 2007, 7:13 pm
30 May 2007, 7:38 pm
30 May 2007, 7:53 pm
davesaint
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 61
Location: St. Louis, MO
30 May 2007, 10:19 pm
sunnycat
Veteran
Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,061
Location: Mysterious Forest of Legends, Kitty Dream Planet
30 May 2007, 11:07 pm
sunnycat
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Gender: Female
Posts: 1,061
Location: Mysterious Forest of Legends, Kitty Dream Planet
30 May 2007, 11:16 pm
sunnycat
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Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,061
Location: Mysterious Forest of Legends, Kitty Dream Planet
30 May 2007, 11:30 pm
TRUE wrote:
Yeah. New wrinkle. Wow. Having read about affairs from the other side on another site, it's very possible that the affair on the part of the other guy only served to make their own marriage more enjoyable.
It's another one of the many variations of human sexuality. In that other case it was a woman who had affairs, and the husband LOVED hearing about them. Loved to be humiliated and dominated. It was a workable marriage though, they fulfill each other's needs. I suppose that is what we want from marriage. When it's really up to us to make our needs known and to think if they are unreasonable and to work towards making ourselves into a happy person.
For your wife, it would be devastating to know that her emotional investment in this guy was a waste of time. She's not going to get anything out of it, in the long run. That is what she discovered when you told her that the other man's wife knew, and he would tell her everything.
She was used. Used by the other man. And even used by the other man's wife. And that's gotta hurt. A lot.
In essence, the other man lied to her. She is now betrayed as well. Who knows what things he told her, that were pure lies. Who knows how much he led her on? You have seen the emails, did he make promises?
There was one creep that I dated for awhile, and I, being the clueless, believe-everything Aspie, did not know he was married. He would call me at home. Come by to see me at work. Blah blah blah.
He made promises. Of the future. I believed them. I did not know.
I'd run out of fingers and toes if I tried to count the number of people that have lied to me.
Couples counseling. No ifs, ands, or buts. You both have to go. You're both hurt now. You may both take it out on each other, and that will never work out. The problems need to be directly addressed and dealt with. Not fester for years in silence or anger or sullen glances and avoidance.
It can help a lot to have a third person, like a mediator, that has both your best interests at heart. Look at all the advice and suggestions you are getting here. You're getting a lot of support. You both need that, together, as a couple. From a non-threatening person who hasn't already taken sides.
It's another one of the many variations of human sexuality. In that other case it was a woman who had affairs, and the husband LOVED hearing about them. Loved to be humiliated and dominated. It was a workable marriage though, they fulfill each other's needs. I suppose that is what we want from marriage. When it's really up to us to make our needs known and to think if they are unreasonable and to work towards making ourselves into a happy person.
For your wife, it would be devastating to know that her emotional investment in this guy was a waste of time. She's not going to get anything out of it, in the long run. That is what she discovered when you told her that the other man's wife knew, and he would tell her everything.
She was used. Used by the other man. And even used by the other man's wife. And that's gotta hurt. A lot.
In essence, the other man lied to her. She is now betrayed as well. Who knows what things he told her, that were pure lies. Who knows how much he led her on? You have seen the emails, did he make promises?
There was one creep that I dated for awhile, and I, being the clueless, believe-everything Aspie, did not know he was married. He would call me at home. Come by to see me at work. Blah blah blah.
He made promises. Of the future. I believed them. I did not know.
I'd run out of fingers and toes if I tried to count the number of people that have lied to me.
Couples counseling. No ifs, ands, or buts. You both have to go. You're both hurt now. You may both take it out on each other, and that will never work out. The problems need to be directly addressed and dealt with. Not fester for years in silence or anger or sullen glances and avoidance.
It can help a lot to have a third person, like a mediator, that has both your best interests at heart. Look at all the advice and suggestions you are getting here. You're getting a lot of support. You both need that, together, as a couple. From a non-threatening person who hasn't already taken sides.
Thank you for your wise words...
I send you heartfelt hugs for the pain that lies caused you...
sunnycat
Veteran
Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,061
Location: Mysterious Forest of Legends, Kitty Dream Planet
30 May 2007, 11:55 pm
sunnycat
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Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,061
Location: Mysterious Forest of Legends, Kitty Dream Planet
30 May 2007, 11:59 pm
TRUE wrote:
Skip over the affair for a moment. Dave, were you "happy" before finding out? Were you content, satisfied, comfortable, trusting? Were there any positive parts to the relationship that were fulfilling, rewarding? Did you love and feel loved? Did you feel safe and secure? Did you LIKE the person you were married to? Did you ENJOY doing things together? Did you share common interests? Were you able to communicate?
If not, that is what you are missing. Those are some pretty good things to look for in a relationship. I'd like all that. I didn't once mention sex in there, I'm thinking of the companionship level. The partnership of a couple in tune with each other. If you aren't in tune, everything suffers, including your sex life.
Thinking now of the affair, why would she give up TWO good things, when she can have them both. Ditto for the other man. They can each stay in their marriages, without risking much if they don't get along. The two of them not getting along. They risk a LOT with their marriages though.
Sort of like young adults that still live at home, and they sneak off to rendezvous. Yeah, they could get in trouble, but I think they believe that they can get away with it. Maybe not, I'm just guessing.
Nevertheless, it has occurred. Yes, I believe that the other spouse has a right to know. They also have a decision to make.
I probably would have copied or printed the emails myself, that had been found on the computer, and filed for divorce immediately. Depending on how bad they were, that is.
I like to think of Christopher Reeve. I use that example a lot. He WAS Superman. He had a lot going for him. And one crummy fall paralyzed him. Obviously there was more to the marriage than him being an actor, who was kind of a good looking guy, I guess.
His entire life changed at that moment, except the love and marriage survived. And he became a spokesperson, instead of an actor.
I hurt my back with just a simple twist on my balcony. I still don't know what THAT was, but there are things wrong with my back, and it may never be the same. It's been seven years. So if I'd been married at that time, I would have had a job and been working on a Master's degree and wanting to get a good job.
Now I'm just poor and disabled. I can't do a lot of the things i used to do. Because it hurts.
In a way, though, it's good. Not the pain part. But I learned more about who I am. And what I really need and what I think is important.
You can do that too. You have had your life irrevocably changed. An emotional injury. That was caused by that spouse. Maybe it's time to move on. You can leave that pain behind and heal.
And you have the opportunity to meet someone else who will value you for what you are now.
I think that your spouse may not like that too much. Unless the other man divorces too, she'll be surprisingly alone. If the other spouse learns of this, and they do decide to work it out (I don't know the nature of THEIR relationship), your ex-wife will have paid the price for her deceit.
Any way it works, whatever happens, there will be pain.
Oh, and the same links that I posted for Zombie in the Women's Forum where he has a poll on if women like their boobies being touched, those links would apply to you too. LOL! And some of what I said there too.
You might not be feeling a strong attraction to your spouse anymore. That doesn't mean you won't feel a strong attraction to someone else.
If not, that is what you are missing. Those are some pretty good things to look for in a relationship. I'd like all that. I didn't once mention sex in there, I'm thinking of the companionship level. The partnership of a couple in tune with each other. If you aren't in tune, everything suffers, including your sex life.
Thinking now of the affair, why would she give up TWO good things, when she can have them both. Ditto for the other man. They can each stay in their marriages, without risking much if they don't get along. The two of them not getting along. They risk a LOT with their marriages though.
Sort of like young adults that still live at home, and they sneak off to rendezvous. Yeah, they could get in trouble, but I think they believe that they can get away with it. Maybe not, I'm just guessing.
Nevertheless, it has occurred. Yes, I believe that the other spouse has a right to know. They also have a decision to make.
I probably would have copied or printed the emails myself, that had been found on the computer, and filed for divorce immediately. Depending on how bad they were, that is.
I like to think of Christopher Reeve. I use that example a lot. He WAS Superman. He had a lot going for him. And one crummy fall paralyzed him. Obviously there was more to the marriage than him being an actor, who was kind of a good looking guy, I guess.
His entire life changed at that moment, except the love and marriage survived. And he became a spokesperson, instead of an actor.
I hurt my back with just a simple twist on my balcony. I still don't know what THAT was, but there are things wrong with my back, and it may never be the same. It's been seven years. So if I'd been married at that time, I would have had a job and been working on a Master's degree and wanting to get a good job.
Now I'm just poor and disabled. I can't do a lot of the things i used to do. Because it hurts.
In a way, though, it's good. Not the pain part. But I learned more about who I am. And what I really need and what I think is important.
You can do that too. You have had your life irrevocably changed. An emotional injury. That was caused by that spouse. Maybe it's time to move on. You can leave that pain behind and heal.
And you have the opportunity to meet someone else who will value you for what you are now.
I think that your spouse may not like that too much. Unless the other man divorces too, she'll be surprisingly alone. If the other spouse learns of this, and they do decide to work it out (I don't know the nature of THEIR relationship), your ex-wife will have paid the price for her deceit.
Any way it works, whatever happens, there will be pain.
Oh, and the same links that I posted for Zombie in the Women's Forum where he has a poll on if women like their boobies being touched, those links would apply to you too. LOL! And some of what I said there too.
You might not be feeling a strong attraction to your spouse anymore. That doesn't mean you won't feel a strong attraction to someone else.
Thank you TRUE, for sharing you wisdom...
31 May 2007, 6:41 am
sunnycat wrote:
Metal_Man wrote:
Dave, it sounds like she is trying to manipulate you into being the one that does all of the changing. My ex tried to do this to me before we got divorced. She handed me a big long list of things that I had to do to make her happy. I said fine and here is a list of things that I would like for you to do. Well that was the end of it right there. She just couldn't understand how she could ever do anything wrong. Most NT women will never, ever admit they are wrong or take any kind of responsibility for their actions.
Hey, I sorta agree to this...it's not just NT women but also NT men...
I think human beings possess this quality to varying degrees...I'd like to watch out for it in myself...
But it's really difficult to take criticism...
There are two kinds of people, generally. Outward-directing people (it's all someone else's fault) and it's often shown in anger. And inward-directing (it's all my fault) and it's often shown in depression.
Also Fundamental Attribution Error:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamenta ... tion_Error
------Excerpt Begin------
One theory is that the error results largely from perspective. When we observe other people, the person is the primary reference point. When we observe ourselves, we are more aware of the forces acting upon us. So, attributions for others’ behavior are more likely to focus on the person we see, not the situational forces acting upon that person that we may not be aware of. In the parlance of psychology research, this is called salience: the more salient a factor is, the more likely it is for a behavior to be attributed to it.
------Excerpt End------
One person could look at me and say "You are always cranky, because you have that LOOK on your face"
What they don't see is that I am in physical pain, and that when they see me, I am walking and IN PAIN more than I would be just chatting here from home.
Their perspective is that I am a cranky person. My own perspective is that I am wincing from pain.
There's a huge list of things we end up doing. And it helps to read about them, understand them, so we can catch ourselves when we do them. I'm often catching myself doing these things, but that's good. Because I realize I am skewing reality.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases
I'm wandering mentally. Geez.
31 May 2007, 6:42 am
31 May 2007, 6:50 am
davesaint
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 61
Location: St. Louis, MO
31 May 2007, 7:09 am
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