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Amity
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20 Sep 2019, 1:57 am

EzraS wrote:
I suffer a lot.
I overheard them saying I would pretty much be a vegetable the rest of my life.
I have gotten past that to some degree but am still unable to do much.
I have significant cognitive and physical disabilities that do not allow me to do much.
And certain chronic illnesses that cause me pain and hamper me.
But I maintain a positive attitude and get the best I can out of life with what I have rather than what I don't.
If I had a defeatist attitude instead of a yes I can attitude, I probably would not be able to be writing this.

One thing that helps is knowing others have it worse than me.
I think about that rather than those who have it better.
I think of a guy I know who is a C-5 quadriplegic.
While there are a lot of things I can not do and things I can not do without help, there is nothing he can do on his own and without help in comparison to me.
I can at least get up from my chair and get a glass of water, he can't
I can get up from my chair and go into the bathroom to pee and then go back to my desk relatively easily. He can't.
I can snack at my desk grabbing chips or peanuts to eat and a can or bottle of whatever to drink. He can't.
I can enjoy hours of playing my online video game, he can't since he has practically no use of his hands and fingers.

But he also has a positive attitude. He is thankful that he can breath on his own without needing a respirator.
Imagine that. Being thankful and happy over being able to breath on your own.

There is an old saying that goes; I cried about not having shoes until I met a man who had no feet.

Much respect from me Ezra, my mantra is that we always have something to loose... it's my one indisputable truth.
Something valuable, but as we take it for granted, we dont realise its value, or miss it till it's gone.
I think perhaps you get this too. :wink: live the moment



sly279
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20 Sep 2019, 2:20 am

Teach51 wrote:
Sly, I do love reading your posts, you have a true and honest heart.

I wish to propose a question to you: Do you think innovation is a product of negativity and the prediction of doom and gloom, or, does innovation symbolize a reluctance to stay stuck in a negative status quo, striving for something better?

Did Einstein wake up every morning and say to himself " there is absolutely no point in my thinking because the grey matter in my brain is degenerating rapidly, I'll be dead in ten years anyway so I'm just going to sit here and wait for my body to decompose." Or did he have this awesome drive to discover, solve, determine and implement?

I do honestly think though that nobody has the right to criticize anyone elses addiction to suffering, inability to see light at the end of tunnel or sense of lack of hope. We are each imprisoned in our emotional default. I also know that the support of my friends has literally saved my life in times when I have not been able to save myself.



Find that hard to believe, people don’t like me.

Most innovation is done to prepare for bad stuff and overcome it and kill others. Positive thinking wouldn’t imagine or think of said negative things. You’d alsoways just assume it’ll work out. Why have water tight sections on boats, the boats will never take on water. <—- that is positive thinking.
Why have a savings nothing bad will happen and if it does it’ll work out<— positive thinking
I could provide plenty such examples.

Innovation is negative thinking, if we don’t innovate our enemies will.
There’d be no innovation in paradise, technology and society would stall.

No he woke up every day knowing his time is limited and so better hurry up on his goals.
Positive thinking would been him waking up and sayin nah I won’t die, that can’t happen. They wrong.
This is why I can’t stwnd true positive thinkers, they don’t prepare, they don’t plan they are so aloof. “It’ll all work out” is their motto.but no it doesn’t all work out.


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magz
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20 Sep 2019, 2:29 am

I think we should differentiate preparing for bad stuff and defeatism.

Let's make sure there is enough room on lifeboats for everyone

is a different kind of negative thinking than

Metal ships culd never sail.


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Amity
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20 Sep 2019, 2:41 am

I think it is important to recognise the distinction between peoples reactions.

I'm split.
I see such potential in Sly, as I think others do too.

However... It is emphatically not a case that you, Sly, have never gotten really appropriate well considered advice.

To discount that is to discount other autists precious social energy that they invested in you.

This is what is irritating for me and I dont know, possibly others here, to see you discount reality without consideration, a taking for granted of the disproportionate quantity of support you have recieved over the years.

I suggest that you start giving support back and perhaps stop (or reduce it drastically) seeking it for a while, (some abstinence, like a diet,) actually spending an hour thinking out how to help solve someone else's dilemma, before you post about your own problems.

Under this definition commiserating doesnt equal support. It's got to focus on solutions.

The idea behind this solution is to help you with caring about others, really really trying and caring on their terms, not yours.
Then come back and seek commiseration, or advice as you will be less likely to take other peoples time and energy for granted. This will help reduce the general irritation directed at you at times.

Otherwise perhaps your signature or first line in the post should include a disclaimer stating clearly in autistic friendly language that you are not looking for solutions, but commiseration. (Considering this is the only place you seek support) This will be a fairer approach to take with communication to the other autists on this site who perhaps like me feel that you have been disingenuous about seeking support many times before. I wouldn't feel that way had you stated that you didn't want people to spend their time and limited social energy coming up with solutions to help you. Or discounted well considered advice by putting it in the same category as empty advice.

You have such potential, i wish you would stop taking it for granted, you always have something to loose, no matter how much you loose there is always more to loose.



Teach51
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20 Sep 2019, 4:14 am

Sly sweety,
Here we clearly have a situation where you are respected and liked greatly on WP, and you have difficulty accepting the fact. I know from personal experience, that sometimes others will love me and respect me during the hard times when I cannot find any love for myself at all.


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20 Sep 2019, 4:49 am

sly279 wrote:
^cause I don’t have anyone else don’t have anywhere else.

If not for wp I’d be all complete alone besides my family that’s rapidly falling apart from all the fighting.

Don’t have a gf don’t have friends.



I'm not talking about friends. WP friends are great...

I'm talking about the professionals assigned to help the disabled: social workers, voc rehab, center for independent living, counselors.

These places and people are an excellent source for advice and help, aside from WP. And they have the benefit of an upclose view into your particular situation.


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kraftiekortie
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20 Sep 2019, 5:39 am

There’s nothing wrong with being cautious and diligent in preventing bad stuff from happening. That’s a type of TRUE positive thinking.

But to assume a bad outcome in all instances, especially when evidence exists for the possibility of a good outcome is definitely NOT positive thinking. This sort of “assuming the worst,” in my opinion, is behind much of the apathy found in people with evident potential.



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20 Sep 2019, 6:38 am

I would like to add that OCD, Complex PTSD, PTSD, anxiety and depression can prevent the best of us from being positive.Also, those of us who have suffered prolonged abuse and were/are not validated by those who should have protected them and loved them in childhood, may not be capable of feeling the self -worth that is necessary in order to thrive and accept that they deserve pleasure and positive outcomes.


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kraftiekortie
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20 Sep 2019, 7:03 am

Just don’t treat people who try to offer positive advice like they’re trying to hurt you.

I have no intention of hurting anybody else when I seek to offer what I see as an alternative solution to situations which keep people stuck. I’m not saying I’m always right.

I’m saying even considering an alternative is much better than remaining stuck because of a fear of the “unknown.”

Many times, doing something is better than doing nothing.



SharonB
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20 Sep 2019, 8:29 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Nope.....I didn’t mean that at all......what Sharon said.

I meant.....I try to do the best I can whatever circumstances I encounter and experience.


@kraftiekortie, I was taking it out of context, b/c it amused me. No harm intended.

When you try your best, how does it feel? I try my best, but feel horrible about it, rather than trying my best and feeling better. So the addicted to suffering is 50% true for me (or more). I am exploring how to hold myself accountable, and more importantly OTHERS (since I was emotionally abused and gaslighted) - without the suffering feeling.



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20 Sep 2019, 8:40 am

Teach51 wrote:
I would like to add that OCD, Complex PTSD, PTSD, anxiety and depression can prevent the best of us from being positive.Also, those of us who have suffered prolonged abuse and were/are not validated by those who should have protected them and loved them in childhood, may not be capable of feeling the self -worth that is necessary in order to thrive and accept that they deserve pleasure and positive outcomes.


This.

I hope that members who experience trauma, chronic depression and disillusionment, and those trapped in truly desperate circumstances, will still use Wrong Planet as a place of refuge to express their feelings. We may not be able to solve their problems or change their way of thinking, but those people still need the forum. For the people who get frustrated giving advice, please realise that advice isn't always what those members need.

Oftentimes, just a hug or words of compassion will help more.


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kraftiekortie
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20 Sep 2019, 8:47 am

To be honest, I almost always feel better when I try my best.

I agree with Isabella. I sometimes feel I just want a hug myself---rather than reams of advice.



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20 Sep 2019, 9:00 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
To be honest, I almost always feel better when I try my best.

I agree with Isabella. I sometimes feel I just want a hug myself---rather than reams of advice.


I haven't read the whole thread, and I wasn't weighing in on the theme overall.

In my own life, yes I try my best. The issue is that "my best" is dependent upon my mental and physical health, my schema or past experiences including trauma, trial and error, my comfort level as affected by not only Autism but MDD, GAD, mutism, a stroke, and agoraphobia, and the range of options available. My "best" might appear insufficient to others but I know my limits as well as my breaking point. If others were to judge and criticise my "best" as being pessimistic or unsuitable, I would feel hurt and misunderstood. It would be similar to a Neurotypical giving me advice, saying "Hey, you should try being Neurotypical like me ... just stop being Autistic!" I am who I am. I know my limits and, although I respectfully appreciate advice, I'm the best judge of what I can and cannot do.


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Temeraire
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20 Sep 2019, 9:23 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
To be honest, I almost always feel better when I try my best.

I agree with Isabella. I sometimes feel I just want a hug myself---rather than reams of advice.


I haven't read the whole thread, and I wasn't weighing in on the theme overall.

In my own life, yes I try my best. The issue is that "my best" is dependent upon my mental and physical health, my schema or past experiences including trauma, trial and error, my comfort level as affected by not only Autism but MDD, GAD, mutism, a stroke, and agoraphobia, and the range of options available. My "best" might appear insufficient to others but I know my limits as well as my breaking point. If others were to judge and criticise my "best" as being pessimistic or unsuitable, I would feel hurt and misunderstood. It would be similar to a Neurotypical giving me advice, saying "Hey, you should try being Neurotypical like me ... just stop being Autistic!" I am who I am. I know my limits and, although I respectfully appreciate advice, I'm the best judge of what I can and cannot do.


Hey, Issy, take my advice because I'm not using it.

Seriously, if I want advice I will ask for it. I get more frustrated with people who give advice without thinking about what the recipient might actually need.

So I agree with you completely Issy.

Some people might just want to be heard and not feel alone in their misery, some might want just a hug as already mentioned. There are so many reasons why someone comes here for support and friendship and airs their woes.

Can people be addicted to suffering? Not in my experience, it is usually for a reason.

Can we be in between like hopeful but realistic? Yes I think so. I quite like balance which is right for me.

I think Sly has made some very good points but some on here do not want to listen and contemplate.



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20 Sep 2019, 9:26 am

Amity wrote:
I think it is important to recognise the distinction between peoples reactions.

I'm split.
I see such potential in Sly, as I think others do too.

However... It is emphatically not a case that you, Sly, have never gotten really appropriate well considered advice.

To discount that is to discount other autists precious social energy that they invested in you.

This is what is irritating for me and I dont know, possibly others here, to see you discount reality without consideration, a taking for granted of the disproportionate quantity of support you have recieved over the years.

I suggest that you start giving support back and perhaps stop (or reduce it drastically) seeking it for a while, (some abstinence, like a diet,) actually spending an hour thinking out how to help solve someone else's dilemma, before you post about your own problems.

Under this definition commiserating doesnt equal support. It's got to focus on solutions.

The idea behind this solution is to help you with caring about others, really really trying and caring on their terms, not yours.
Then come back and seek commiseration, or advice as you will be less likely to take other peoples time and energy for granted. This will help reduce the general irritation directed at you at times.

Otherwise perhaps your signature or first line in the post should include a disclaimer stating clearly in autistic friendly language that you are not looking for solutions, but commiseration. (Considering this is the only place you seek support) This will be a fairer approach to take with communication to the other autists on this site who perhaps like me feel that you have been disingenuous about seeking support many times before. I wouldn't feel that way had you stated that you didn't want people to spend their time and limited social energy coming up with solutions to help you. Or discounted well considered advice by putting it in the same category as empty advice.

You have such potential, i wish you would stop taking it for granted, you always have something to loose, no matter how much you loose there is always more to loose.


I think you're making a very important point here. Prolonged depression and unhappiness (+isolation) can create a mental bubble and lead to a particular type of solipsism. There are a few people here who end up feeling that their misery is or must be greater than anyone else's and lose perspective in regards to others' struggles. Some of them not only post here a lot about themselves without ever offering support to others (I'm not talking about you, sly, I know you do) but sometimes end up dismissing, attacking and treating callously people who are sometimes even more vulnerable than themselves.

I think the best way of getting out of such a mental bubble is to actively concentrate your mental and emotional resources towards others - at least some of the time. Yourself, kraftie, Isabella, blazingstar, magz and a few others are actually proving this point very well. Their struggles made them more open and empathetic towards people instead of calcifying their hearts.


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20 Sep 2019, 9:28 am

Temeraire wrote:
... Some people might just want to be heard and not feel alone in their misery...
... when they could be making the effort to improve themselves and get themselves up and out of their misery, instead of wallowing in their misery for years unending and making up lame excuses as to why they "can't" do otherwise, especially when it is obvious that they have the health and the opportunities to succeed.

Pain is inevitable. Misery is optional.


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