My final decision

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I don't determine my self-worth on what others think.

I think this may be part of the problem you have.

The issue you have seems to be primarily not being able to fulfil your instinctual needs.
I.E. To find a "suitable" partner to satisfy your sexual and psychological requirements.
The wealth aspect seems to come a distant second, except in the sense of making you more attractive to a possible partner.

It seems to me that your emotional requirement overwhelms your intellectual acceptance of your situation.
This, in turn, prevents possible realistic compromises.
Everyone has to compromise, after all.

The reason I am "allowed" to say this is because I am in a similar situation as you, in most ways.

I am of the age where most of those things that you lament are completely off the table for me.
You, at least, have a chance of improving your life.
You still have time on your side.

I have one foot in the grave (hyperbole), not of my choosing, and I am aware that the "fruits of life" that you are concerned about are forever beyond my reach, yet I comfortably accept my situation.

Why is that?

Would you still feel depressed if you didn't have that debt?

Isn't the problem a lack of personal meaning in your life?
Are there other possible avenues for you to achieve this?

As we all know, anybody who feels upset because he can never get sex is an entitled misogynist. If someone can never get sex, it's his own fault for being a worthless loser. If no woman ever wants to have sex with a certain man, that's because that man is undeserving of love. And not that. He isn't even deserving of any sympathy for his predicament. We all know that loneliness kills. Lonely people have significantly shorter lifespans. The data supports this, the science proves it. But still nobody does anything to help such people, because anyone whose that much of a worthless loser is clearly a detriment to the entire species. They're unworthy of life.

These people pretty much want to kill, by legal means, anyone who isn't 'just like them'. Cut them loose and cut their opinions loose. They have no right to murder you and even less right to murder you with your hands.


There might be something else that I need to share.

I went through a period a few years ago of intense trauma, not just the absolute collapsing promises of 'work hard and you'll be self-sufficient, lined up to have a family', etc. etc. but working over 100 hours per week for less than 50K per year, for scramble-brained clients when then, after spending my whole summer programming a really complex finance and accounting system for them with four or five orders of complexity on a given feature they just said "Meh, looks like we don't need it after all". That was something like 500 - 600 hours of my life up in smoke. I was still recovering from another project that started in 2018 which was almost as bad but just didn't involve credit bureaus, more an engineering application for a bolt manufacturer and were I had to do something about 20x harder than anything I'd done to date with no assistance, no one else knowing the programming language I knew, and us signing up to do a bunch of stuff claiming we could do it - but I'd still say having no solid clue whether we could, just flying by the seat of our pants and throwing me out on a hook for the customer.

So what I got to see really clearly - I was used to at least being able to assume that, on my character, work ethic, accountability, that I could be worth 'something' on a human level, and I got to find out that to much of the world if I'm someone else's kid, I'm really just deli meat of the sort that kids at Subway could do slip-and-slides on. That my health and well being was just a fuel rod to be burned.

During that time things cut deeply enough that I was having a lot of Jungian eruptions. On this note was the idea that if I didn't have kids that I'd be erased from history, erased from the future, and that absolutely nothing meant more than getting myself out and through, beating the odds, I also had a lot of people who didn't like me (being different at all) at work and so there was a constant sense of sabotage, and the additional feeling that my parents put the loving care into raising me so I could be composted - ie. buried alive under a mountain of human excrement.

Going through that was hell, and I'm not the same person on the other side of it albeit I feel like I'm recovering.

I also had the fear hit me - will my health collapse if my body doesn't meet it's biological imperatives or gets the signal, solidly, that it won't? I thought it was possible, after all if the whole organism is here to make copies of itself and finds out that it can't, you would think that said realization would flip some type of rapid degeneration toward death into motion? I haven't found that to be the case. If anything the stress has lightened up a bit, life and work are still absurd but in a way that my nose and mouth, often enough my whole head, is above water and I'm not drowning. It turns out drowning under work for prolonged periods of time (ie. years) was the biggest issue there.

My best remedy - I take long walks in the evenings when I can. I get out and go two to four miles when the weather is good. I try to stick with nutritious content on Youtube, ie. long-form podcasts by nerds (thinking of people like Andrew Yang, Heterodox Academy, Nate Hagan, The Stoa, ie. people who are actually forward-thinking). When I have the time I break out Ableton and make music, I have a small group online that I post to BandLab with who I met on a spirituality related Facebook page. I still have martial arts albeit my instructor is moving out of state in a few months and that may have to fall back on other things. Also not sure if it will last but I've recently taken to having a cigar out in the garage or on the front step if the weather is nice or having a good IPA after a long day of work. If I feel like I really hate the extra free time, can't fill it, and don't feel like I can bring myself back to being a voracious reader, I do know the right people to where I could consider joining Freemasonry albeit I'm cautious because I get that it's as big an obligation as joining a church so I'd rather give that time for thought.

Any which way - I think the answer is to find wholesome uses of your time and things that build you up, things you find enjoyable, ie. constant signals to your own brain that you're not a stereotypical loser, that you have ambitions and interests and that you're still keeping avenues open to pursue them. Even finding things, framed posters you can put on your walls (like art pieces you like), anything that can give you constant signals that you care about yourself, that you care about your story, that you care about where you've been and what you've fought your way through to be here.

What's at your core is sacred.

What's outside and trying to twist you to pieces is by and large profane.

It's mission-critical to build a fortress within that's made of love - love for yourself, love for your conscious experience, love - effectively - for the god behind your eyes.

^ Well and eloquently said!

To that last point, something else that I consider mission-critical is to have what I'd think of as 'chest plate' material. There are certain poems, certain pieces of music that fill me with reverence toward my life, my conscious, being, etc..

A couple examples of this that work for me in particular:
- Mansur Al Hallaj's 'I saw the lord with the eye of my heart' poem.
- Truth by Goldie (both the original with Davie Bowie and the Journey Man version with Jose James)

They both get at the same thing, albeit with Truth by Goldie it's saturated in struggle (or at least the original, the Jose James version is more like a loving retrospective after the battle has been won). There's an interesting story as to where those lyrics came from but it's best understood as a song written by an artist to his deeper self.

I should clarify that I know nothing about programming, playing music, or martial arts. And as an atheist I wouldn't qualify for membership in the Freemasons. Not that I would want any part in an organization that excludes women entirely anyway.

I'm an atheist, too.

And I know nothing about playing music, martial arts, and all the things you mentioned, especially including programming.

We've been seeking to give good advice for a while now. I wish I would have succeeded better, and I'm sure that goes for the others, too.

I feel what it boils down to----is that you haven't experienced good luck. Or maybe you express your opinions in a too polemic/doctrinaire manner....I don't know.

There should not be much impediment in you finding a partner....but it doesn't mean you're "unloveable" and all that. I don't believe that's the case (unless, of course, you do "unloveable" things----which I very much doubt you do).

That's kind of beside the point though.

You're psychologically steeped in a way of thinking where life comes down to a P in a V and if there's no P in a V then the whole value of human (or at least male) experience is voided.

I'm trying to tell you both that there's a bigger world and that your bigger, that you should really look into staples or hooks for your own value as a human being that don't depend on 'box'.

Also, on a side note - if you do Youtube at all you really might want to try listening to someone like ThinkingApe, huMan isn't bad either and I like his discussions on what I think his core thrust is which is preserving his actual value from an economic machine meant to smash men into commodities at every level and delete from relevance anything that machine can't understand (it's extremely narrow and solipsistic that way). Some of the MGTOW community is angry and bitter but there are others who do have useful things to say, and among those things is 'The relationship world is f'd, what other things do we have?'.

Indeed, like Tech said, there is a "bigger world" out there.

"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it." - Mark Twain

Very witty and pithy......but obvious as all heck.....

I wish my mother got an abortion.

Huck Finn had a hard life; I'm sure he was sexually abused at some point.

Yet....he was able to become a "character." And do these amazing things.

Huck Finn is a fictional character.

I had a roommate many years ago who worked for the Department of Human Services. He told me about a teenage boy he used to be a case Manger for. This boy had had a rough life and been through so much abuse that he was unable to trust anyone. He kept acting rebellious and fighting everyone and they could never find a foster family that was willing to deal with him and he eventually ended in juvie and then in the streets. The point my roommate was making is that he'd come to believe that when some people in end up in situations that are beyond all hope, they may be better off dead than suffering through hopeless struggles.