Seems the hating on lonely single men is coming back

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elsapelsa
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09 May 2018, 5:41 am

Here are some concrete examples, most of these are fairly odd, I was not particularly interested and they ended up going nowhere:

Guy is on same train as me. Train breaks down. He comes over and starts chatting (initially about broken train, then other stuff...) and says shall we go for a sandwich / coffee as there is now no train.

Guy on bus is staring at me. He asks little old lady sitting next to him to ask little old lady across the aisle who is sitting next to me to ask me if I am single. He continues to pester his lady to talk to my lady and ask questions about me and the ladies seem to think it is "ever so cute." He finally asks his lady to ask my lady if I am free when the bus reaches its destination.

Guy seller in book shop leaves note in my bag asking me out on date.

This is a particularly odd one, happened last summer, not sure if this is normal male behaviour or not or if he was flirting / coming on to me, extremely generous, or just slightly nuts :lol: guy filling up at pump next to me sees me struggling with filling car up (it is some pre-pay system and I am abroad - in America) so he starts chatting with me and then says why don't I just "fill up on him" and starts dragging his hose over. That one is odd right? Or do men randomly give women free petrol in America? Drove off pretty fast.

Plenty more examples of similar very high class style!

Most often it will happen when you are sitting down anyway, on a bus, flight or train or something like that (I've had two random marriage proposals on long distance flights when I was younger, not fun at all, especially as there was a lot of flying left to do and I am petrified of flying anyway).


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goldfish21
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09 May 2018, 5:44 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
yellowtamarin wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
yellowtamarin wrote:
^ Almost anywhere that's not private. Maybe not public toilets cos most are still segregated.

So let me get this right: you're sitting there alone in starbucks drinking coffee and checking your tablet - you're a total stranger to me - I saw you there from distance and I was like 'wow this girl is hot!' . So I come to you and I am like: "Hi! My name is Boo,what's your name?" - You: "I am yellowtamarin" - Me: "May I sit here?" ...etc

and you said even flirting, so I may add to the conversation : Me: "I often come here and this is first time i notice you in this place, you caught my attention, are you new here?"

Are you telling me this is a common thing in Melbourne? Because this is so alien to me , I thought it only happens in movies.

I'm not sure that such a formal introduction like that is so common. I think more often it's just that a conversation starts. Name exchanging could happen later once it seems the conversation is going somewhere*. But yeah, you're example could happen, especially in the more social hubs of the city.

(*and sometimes not, like one time I got chatting with a guy at a zoo, and we spent an hour or two wandering around together, then we parted ways and I realised we never even introduced ourselves :( )


Then give me a concrete example how a guy would ask out a stranger girl in public without him introducing himself. **scratching head**
I need to know because goldfish is like "OMFG GUYs ask out gals in the STREET ALL the TTIME!!" .

Give me concrete examples, you too Raleigh since you joined his club.


She responded to your example and told you how realistic it is. The part you're not getting is that conversation starters, introductions, and asking someone out aren't set in stone scripted words. They're spontaneous, fluid, momentary, and react to the situation/scene/people involved. People are not robots - especially NT's.


Which example? Her totally out-of-topic Zoo example that it's a complete different scenario than I am talking about? Zoo is like touristic interest places, where there are guards and guides, it's common there for strangers to chit chat about the things (or animals) they're all there to see.

And even in her Zoo example the guy didn't attempt to ask her out and didn't even introduce himself.

Her Zoo example is useless.


I said she responded to YOUR example. Your example is a fair representation of how people meet at starbucks.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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09 May 2018, 5:44 am

goldfish21 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
yellowtamarin wrote:
^ Almost anywhere that's not private. Maybe not public toilets cos most are still segregated.



So let me get this right: you're sitting there alone in starbucks drinking coffee and checking your tablet - you're a total stranger to me - I saw you there from distance and I was like 'wow this girl is hot!' . So I come to you and I am like: "Hi! My name is Boo,what's your name?" - You: "I am yellowtamarin" - Me: "May I sit here?" ...etc

and you said even flirting, so I may add to the conversation : Me: "I often come here and this is first time i notice you in this place, you caught my attention, are you new here?"

Are you telling me this is a common thing in Melbourne? Because this is so alien to me , I thought it only happens in movies.


8O

I'm actually shocked that the one on these forums who's special interest is dating and relationships doesn't realize that people meet in public at random and start up conversations with one another just like this.



I'm actually shocked by you too, you seem to live on another planet. You talk about things I have never seen in my life.

It's something I never do, nor I see guys doing it -

I have never seen it in Lebanon, except in bars.

I have never seen it in Cyprus, except in bars.

I have never seen it in Turkey.

I have never seen it in Czech Republic, except in bars.

Those are places I went to frequently.

- in coffee shops only people who know each other already sit on same table talk to each other, but I wouldn't attemp to next to a girl , on the same table, whom I know nothing about and start talking to her ; nor I have seen a friend or acquaintance approaching a total stranger in a coffee shop. It just doesn't happen in my sane world.


I have never been to any of those places so can't speak to them.

Coffee shops and small restaurants/lounges are rather specifically designed for singles to mingle, really.



That's news to me, a total alternate reality world - where I live and the places I went to, coffee shops and small restaurants/lounges are designed for serving food and friends-gathering, and first dates (most of my first dates been in a coffee shop). As for the 'designed for singles to mingle' part, this is too alien for me.



The_Face_of_Boo
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09 May 2018, 5:45 am

goldfish21 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
yellowtamarin wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
yellowtamarin wrote:
^ Almost anywhere that's not private. Maybe not public toilets cos most are still segregated.

So let me get this right: you're sitting there alone in starbucks drinking coffee and checking your tablet - you're a total stranger to me - I saw you there from distance and I was like 'wow this girl is hot!' . So I come to you and I am like: "Hi! My name is Boo,what's your name?" - You: "I am yellowtamarin" - Me: "May I sit here?" ...etc

and you said even flirting, so I may add to the conversation : Me: "I often come here and this is first time i notice you in this place, you caught my attention, are you new here?"

Are you telling me this is a common thing in Melbourne? Because this is so alien to me , I thought it only happens in movies.

I'm not sure that such a formal introduction like that is so common. I think more often it's just that a conversation starts. Name exchanging could happen later once it seems the conversation is going somewhere*. But yeah, you're example could happen, especially in the more social hubs of the city.

(*and sometimes not, like one time I got chatting with a guy at a zoo, and we spent an hour or two wandering around together, then we parted ways and I realised we never even introduced ourselves :( )


Then give me a concrete example how a guy would ask out a stranger girl in public without him introducing himself. **scratching head**
I need to know because goldfish is like "OMFG GUYs ask out gals in the STREET ALL the TTIME!!" .

Give me concrete examples, you too Raleigh since you joined his club.


She responded to your example and told you how realistic it is. The part you're not getting is that conversation starters, introductions, and asking someone out aren't set in stone scripted words. They're spontaneous, fluid, momentary, and react to the situation/scene/people involved. People are not robots - especially NT's.


Which example? Her totally out-of-topic Zoo example that it's a complete different scenario than I am talking about? Zoo is like touristic interest places, where there are guards and guides, it's common there for strangers to chit chat about the things (or animals) they're all there to see.

And even in her Zoo example the guy didn't attempt to ask her out and didn't even introduce himself.

Her Zoo example is useless.


I said she responded to YOUR example. Your example is a fair representation of how people meet at starbucks.


MY example was a satire, it's something that never happens.



kraftiekortie
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09 May 2018, 5:45 am

The places you mentioned, Boo, are relatively conservative places (with the possible exception of the Czech Republic) as far as gender and social relations are concerned.

Most conversations, even in places like NYC or Vancouver—more liberal places—don’t end up with dates. It’s more likely they’ll be offers to “friend” each other on Facebook. Quite possibly not even that.

These sorts of conversations occur more often on public transportation than on the street, per se. they rarely occur in libraries or bookstores. They are more common in supermarkets.

In certain neighborhoods, where a man and a woman live near each other, this occurs. In more dodgy neighborhoods, people are more cautious.

It’s more common during the day than at night for strangers to talk in the street.



The_Face_of_Boo
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09 May 2018, 5:47 am

elsapelsa wrote:
Here are some concrete examples, most of these are fairly odd, I was not particularly interested and they ended up going nowhere:

Guy is on same train as me. Train breaks down. He comes over and starts chatting (initially about broken train, then other stuff...) and says shall we go for a sandwich / coffee as there is now no train.

Guy on bus is staring at me. He asks little old lady sitting next to him to ask little old lady across the aisle who is sitting next to me to ask me if I am single. He continues to pester his lady to talk to my lady and ask questions about me and the ladies seem to think it is "ever so cute." He finally asks his lady to ask my lady if I am free when the bus reaches its destination.

Guy seller in book shop leaves note in my bag asking me out on date.

This is a particularly odd one, happened last summer, not sure if this is normal male behaviour or not or if he was flirting / coming on to me, extremely generous, or just slightly nuts :lol: guy filling up at pump next to me sees me struggling with filling car up (it is some pre-pay system and I am abroad - in America) so he starts chatting with me and then says why don't I just "fill up on him" and starts dragging his hose over. That one is odd right? Or do men randomly give women free petrol in America? Drove off pretty fast.

Plenty more examples of similar very high class style!

Most often it will happen when you are sitting down anyway, on a bus, flight or train or something like that (I've had two random marriage proposals on long distance flights when I was younger, not fun at all, especially as there was a lot of flying left to do and I am petrified of flying anyway).



And none of those examples worked for the guys ....and would never work with any other lady I bet , so that reinforces my theory that they're not socially acceptable in any form or shape.



goldfish21
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09 May 2018, 5:50 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
yellowtamarin wrote:
^ Almost anywhere that's not private. Maybe not public toilets cos most are still segregated.



So let me get this right: you're sitting there alone in starbucks drinking coffee and checking your tablet - you're a total stranger to me - I saw you there from distance and I was like 'wow this girl is hot!' . So I come to you and I am like: "Hi! My name is Boo,what's your name?" - You: "I am yellowtamarin" - Me: "May I sit here?" ...etc

and you said even flirting, so I may add to the conversation : Me: "I often come here and this is first time i notice you in this place, you caught my attention, are you new here?"

Are you telling me this is a common thing in Melbourne? Because this is so alien to me , I thought it only happens in movies.


8O

I'm actually shocked that the one on these forums who's special interest is dating and relationships doesn't realize that people meet in public at random and start up conversations with one another just like this.



I'm actually shocked by you too, you seem to live on another planet. You talk about things I have never seen in my life.

It's something I never do, nor I see guys doing it -

I have never seen it in Lebanon, except in bars.

I have never seen it in Cyprus, except in bars.

I have never seen it in Turkey.

I have never seen it in Czech Republic, except in bars.

Those are places I went to frequently.

- in coffee shops only people who know each other already sit on same table talk to each other, but I wouldn't attemp to next to a girl , on the same table, whom I know nothing about and start talking to her ; nor I have seen a friend or acquaintance approaching a total stranger in a coffee shop. It just doesn't happen in my sane world.


I have never been to any of those places so can't speak to them.

Coffee shops and small restaurants/lounges are rather specifically designed for singles to mingle, really.



That's news to me, a total alternate reality world - where I live and the places I went to, coffee shops and small restaurants/lounges are designed for serving food and friends-gathering, and first dates (most of my first dates been in a coffee shop). As for the 'designed for singles to mingle' part, this is too alien for me.


Coffee shops are for all of those things as well as singles to meet - and, of course, for coffee and wifi & a place to take a piss.

Here's one that will blow your mind then: Apparently the starbucks right on the strip of Vancouver's gay village is a major cruising spot. I've been eyeballed there while ordering coffee. Apparently gay guys will use it as a cruising spot, meaning they go there specifically to check each other out, signal that they're interested in one another, and then disappear somewhere discreet for a quick sexual encounter - possibly even the washroom in that starbucks; I'm not sure, that's not my thing. But maybe they just use it as a pickup spot and then go elsewhere. *shrug* Not part of my slu*ty life so I dunno for sure what the location protocol is, only that I've heard it's a major cruising spot.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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09 May 2018, 5:52 am

goldfish21 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
yellowtamarin wrote:
^ Almost anywhere that's not private. Maybe not public toilets cos most are still segregated.



So let me get this right: you're sitting there alone in starbucks drinking coffee and checking your tablet - you're a total stranger to me - I saw you there from distance and I was like 'wow this girl is hot!' . So I come to you and I am like: "Hi! My name is Boo,what's your name?" - You: "I am yellowtamarin" - Me: "May I sit here?" ...etc

and you said even flirting, so I may add to the conversation : Me: "I often come here and this is first time i notice you in this place, you caught my attention, are you new here?"

Are you telling me this is a common thing in Melbourne? Because this is so alien to me , I thought it only happens in movies.


8O

I'm actually shocked that the one on these forums who's special interest is dating and relationships doesn't realize that people meet in public at random and start up conversations with one another just like this.



I'm actually shocked by you too, you seem to live on another planet. You talk about things I have never seen in my life.

It's something I never do, nor I see guys doing it -

I have never seen it in Lebanon, except in bars.

I have never seen it in Cyprus, except in bars.

I have never seen it in Turkey.

I have never seen it in Czech Republic, except in bars.

Those are places I went to frequently.

- in coffee shops only people who know each other already sit on same table talk to each other, but I wouldn't attemp to next to a girl , on the same table, whom I know nothing about and start talking to her ; nor I have seen a friend or acquaintance approaching a total stranger in a coffee shop. It just doesn't happen in my sane world.


I have never been to any of those places so can't speak to them.

Coffee shops and small restaurants/lounges are rather specifically designed for singles to mingle, really.



That's news to me, a total alternate reality world - where I live and the places I went to, coffee shops and small restaurants/lounges are designed for serving food and friends-gathering, and first dates (most of my first dates been in a coffee shop). As for the 'designed for singles to mingle' part, this is too alien for me.


Coffee shops are for all of those things as well as singles to meet - and, of course, for coffee and wifi & a place to take a piss.

Here's one that will blow your mind then: Apparently the starbucks right on the strip of Vancouver's gay village is a major cruising spot. I've been eyeballed there while ordering coffee. Apparently gay guys will use it as a cruising spot, meaning they go there specifically to check each other out, signal that they're interested in one another, and then disappear somewhere discreet for a quick sexual encounter - possibly even the washroom in that starbucks; I'm not sure, that's not my thing. But maybe they just use it as a pickup spot and then go elsewhere. *shrug* Not part of my slu*ty life so I dunno for sure what the location protocol is, only that I've heard it's a major cruising spot.


Here's one that will blow your mind too:

Gay men =/= women.

Social etiquette among gays are not applicable among hetero people.



goldfish21
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09 May 2018, 6:05 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
yellowtamarin wrote:
^ Almost anywhere that's not private. Maybe not public toilets cos most are still segregated.



So let me get this right: you're sitting there alone in starbucks drinking coffee and checking your tablet - you're a total stranger to me - I saw you there from distance and I was like 'wow this girl is hot!' . So I come to you and I am like: "Hi! My name is Boo,what's your name?" - You: "I am yellowtamarin" - Me: "May I sit here?" ...etc

and you said even flirting, so I may add to the conversation : Me: "I often come here and this is first time i notice you in this place, you caught my attention, are you new here?"

Are you telling me this is a common thing in Melbourne? Because this is so alien to me , I thought it only happens in movies.


8O

I'm actually shocked that the one on these forums who's special interest is dating and relationships doesn't realize that people meet in public at random and start up conversations with one another just like this.



I'm actually shocked by you too, you seem to live on another planet. You talk about things I have never seen in my life.

It's something I never do, nor I see guys doing it -

I have never seen it in Lebanon, except in bars.

I have never seen it in Cyprus, except in bars.

I have never seen it in Turkey.

I have never seen it in Czech Republic, except in bars.

Those are places I went to frequently.

- in coffee shops only people who know each other already sit on same table talk to each other, but I wouldn't attemp to next to a girl , on the same table, whom I know nothing about and start talking to her ; nor I have seen a friend or acquaintance approaching a total stranger in a coffee shop. It just doesn't happen in my sane world.


I have never been to any of those places so can't speak to them.

Coffee shops and small restaurants/lounges are rather specifically designed for singles to mingle, really.



That's news to me, a total alternate reality world - where I live and the places I went to, coffee shops and small restaurants/lounges are designed for serving food and friends-gathering, and first dates (most of my first dates been in a coffee shop). As for the 'designed for singles to mingle' part, this is too alien for me.


Coffee shops are for all of those things as well as singles to meet - and, of course, for coffee and wifi & a place to take a piss.

Here's one that will blow your mind then: Apparently the starbucks right on the strip of Vancouver's gay village is a major cruising spot. I've been eyeballed there while ordering coffee. Apparently gay guys will use it as a cruising spot, meaning they go there specifically to check each other out, signal that they're interested in one another, and then disappear somewhere discreet for a quick sexual encounter - possibly even the washroom in that starbucks; I'm not sure, that's not my thing. But maybe they just use it as a pickup spot and then go elsewhere. *shrug* Not part of my slu*ty life so I dunno for sure what the location protocol is, only that I've heard it's a major cruising spot.


Here's one that will blow your mind too:

Gay men =/= women.

Social etiquette among gays are not applicable among hetero people.


Did I say that now or ever? No.

My point was that coffee shops are used for a whole lot more than getting a coffee.. and more than getting just a phone number. Teh Gays use some of them as cruising spots.


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Raleigh
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09 May 2018, 1:59 pm

There's coffee shops here that have weekly singles meet-ups.
One hosts a speed dating event every now and then.


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youcameandchanged
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04 Dec 2018, 6:30 pm

BTW, what do you think is the line between a stereotypical incel and someone who's merely using the wrong techniques? 'Cause I know someone who is, and he's been called out on it and been accused of being incapable of seeing women as friends.



youcameandchanged
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05 Dec 2018, 8:49 pm

youcameandchanged wrote:
BTW, what do you think is the line between a stereotypical incel and someone who's merely using the wrong techniques? 'Cause I know someone who is, and he's been called out on it and been accused of being incapable of seeing women as friends.

I'm not in this situation actually, but I guess I just hate seeing others get shouted at even if it's deserved. BTW, his pick-up style is talking to random women. And he's been called out on it even though he's not deliberately being an a**hole, just doing it the wrong way.



youcameandchanged
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07 Dec 2018, 4:45 am

BTW, another question: is "try to understand women and their feelings" a cure-all for singleness and loneliness? Or is it the kind of simplistic advice that turns men into incels? (I don't actually care about whether I'm single or not, just asking for a friend.)



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07 Dec 2018, 6:54 am

Hi youcameandchanged. You would be better to start a new thread of your own that to resurrect an old thread, especially in the haven where some wounds are best left buried.

Although I am going to quote one of the posts from the first page because it is extremely well written.

It's a shame nothing has changed in here since May. No one has learned or grown.



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07 Dec 2018, 6:55 am

I'm reposting this because it is so well written and true.

Trogluddite wrote:
For context, let me first say, I have been "involuntarily celibate" or whatever else you might want to call it, for twice as long as you, sly. I do understand the loneliness and frustration. And I don't think you're horrible either! Also, I want to make clear that the comments below are not intended just for you.

OK, First thing.
- People disagreeing with your opinion is not "hating".
- People offering advice which you don't want to hear is not "hating".
- People offering advice which you have heard before, and maybe unsuccessfully tried, is not "hating".
- People saying inappropriate things because they don't understand your situation is not "hating".
Let's stop throwing the word "hate" around before it ceases to have any meaning any more.

"kraftiekortie wrote:
Don’t provide fuel for the fire.

THIS

You are not "horrible", sly, but I will be totally frank with you; you are annoying and frustrating sometimes, as are several of the other L&D "regulars" - including the people who consistently repeat the same arguments back at you. When people start a thread on L&D to discuss their problems, they are not expecting their thread to to be hijacked by the same few people having the exact same argument that we see repeated on every other thread there.

This is why I never post in L&D. It isn't that I don't want dating advice (I sure could use it). It's not that I don't want to help other people feeling the same pain as I do. It is because I know that within half dozen posts, the thread will end up looking exactly the same as all the other ones, and it will drag on and on for post after post saying essentially the exact same things over and over again. L&D and many of the threads discussing gender have become little more than an "echo chamber" for the same few voices and opinions - too much talk and too little listening. This deters people from posting who might have an alternative perspective, maybe even ones that would be useful to you.

You have the same opportunity to discuss what is important to you as anyone else here, including making your own threads, such as this one (I'm glad you did, it was a wise choice) However, there are times when people are discussing their issues, especially people not in the same situation as you, when they would rather that people who's opinions are already well known and irrelevant to their thread would just butt out. It is just tiresome when the same few people try to drag every thread into the same issues that they want to discuss all the time. This is particularly the case when people are posting in the Haven.

I'm sorry if my comments seem harsh. They are sincerely intended to help you, and also the other L&D "regulars", to see why you get the reactions you do sometimes. Step back, take a deep breath, and stop diving straight in on the first thing you see that you disagree with every time, and stop exaggerating every little difference of opinion into feeling "hated"; you know by now where that will lead. I'm not condoning people "lashing back" with unkind words, of course they shouldn't; but I do understand the frustration which leads them to do that.



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07 Dec 2018, 8:13 am

I don't see any "Hating" going on, only exasperation with the icel-esque self pity, perennial victimhood, and learned (or cultivated) helplessness so often expressed in so many of these maudlin "nobody loves me, everybody hates me, guess I'll go eat worms" posts.

Lots of people on this forum are lonely; male, female, gay and straight; most of them are struggling valiantly to develop the skills necessary to overcome this loneliness and develop and maintain reasonably healthy and rewarding relationships. Hopefully, you'll be encouraged by their efforts and join in. If not, perhaps you can at least forgive them for their impatience with folks who apparently refuse to even try, preferring instead to remain passively inert and feel sorry for themselves.