Addicted To Suffering.
Pain is inevitable. Misery is optional.
That is pretty harsh but I have to agree.
That's an excellent word: "calcify."
I feel like there are some people who are "calcified" in their beliefs, and have a hard time breaking away from them. However, if one uses a hammer and chisel to attempt to "release" the beliefs, the core within the person might be harmed because of the sheer force of the hammer. Making, metaphorically, use of a gentle chisel and gentle strokes would probably, paradoxically, accelerate the progress of escape from the calcification.
Then you have the lessons which are learned in "Allegory of a Cave," by Plato----wherein people have to be gently guided towards "the light." They must not be "pushed" towards it. They must also give space to people to gently guide themselves out of the Cave (which, to some people, is the Abyss).
Many times, recovery is a long, drawn-out process. Being hasty in attempting to effect one's recovery could cause one to feel overwhelmed, and to "backslide."
I was sort of forced to learn this through my interactions within WP.
Again, there are some people who are incapable of helping themselves, and even some people who can't be helped. I wish it wasn't so, but there it is. But for those people who are able-bodied and refuse to act upon the appropriate opportunities to improve themselves, I have no pity.
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The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.
I feel like there are some people who are "calcified" in their beliefs, and have a hard time breaking away from them. However, if one uses a hammer and chisel to attempt to "release" the beliefs, the core within the person might be harmed because of the sheer force of the hammer. Making, metaphorically, use of a gentle chisel and gentle strokes would probably, paradoxically, accelerate the progress of escape from the calcification.
Then you have the lessons which are learned in "Allegory of a Cave," by Plato----wherein people have to be gently guided towards "the light." They must not be "pushed" towards it. They must also give space to people to gently guide themselves out of the Cave (which, to some people, is the Abyss).
Many times, recovery is a long, drawn-out process. Being hasty in attempting to effect one's recovery could cause one to feel overwhelmed, and to "backslide."
I was sort of forced to learn this through my interactions within WP.
I fully agree, Kraftie, I would never recommend "forcing" someone out of their misery. I don't think it's actually possible and it can cause a lot of harm.
I thought that Amity touched on a crucial point here that making a deliberate effort towards others can sometimes help with our own pain too.
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"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley
I have known people who have seemed not to benefit from advice given, and to utterly dismiss it.
two, five, or ten years later, however, these people remember the advice which was given, and benefit greatly from it. And appreciate it.
"Lost causes" are very rarely truly "lost causes."
Absolutely. People who have their problems often benefit from taking on the "caring/listening" role. This does aid them in their recovery. It has aided me in mine.
I feel like there are some people who are "calcified" in their beliefs, and have a hard time breaking away from them. However, if one uses a hammer and chisel to attempt to "release" the beliefs, the core within the person might be harmed because of the sheer force of the hammer. Making, metaphorically, use of a gentle chisel and gentle strokes would probably, paradoxically, accelerate the progress of escape from the calcification.
Then you have the lessons which are learned in "Allegory of a Cave," by Plato----wherein people have to be gently guided towards "the light." They must not be "pushed" towards it. They must also give space to people to gently guide themselves out of the Cave (which, to some people, is the Abyss).
Many times, recovery is a long, drawn-out process. Being hasty in attempting to effect one's recovery could cause one to feel overwhelmed, and to "backslide."
I was sort of forced to learn this through my interactions within WP.
I fully agree, Kraftie, I would never recommend "forcing" someone out of their misery. I don't think it's actually possible and it can cause a lot of harm.
I thought that Amity touched on a crucial point here that making a deliberate effort towards others can sometimes help with our own pain too.
This requires self awareness as well as awareness of others on the part of the person in pain. But often when someone is enveloped in deep enough pain they are incapable of this level of awareness.
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The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.
I'm split.
I see such potential in Sly, as I think others do too.
However... It is emphatically not a case that you, Sly, have never gotten really appropriate well considered advice.
To discount that is to discount other autists precious social energy that they invested in you.
This is what is irritating for me and I dont know, possibly others here, to see you discount reality without consideration, a taking for granted of the disproportionate quantity of support you have recieved over the years.
I suggest that you start giving support back and perhaps stop (or reduce it drastically) seeking it for a while, (some abstinence, like a diet,) actually spending an hour thinking out how to help solve someone else's dilemma, before you post about your own problems.
Under this definition commiserating doesnt equal support. It's got to focus on solutions.
The idea behind this solution is to help you with caring about others, really really trying and caring on their terms, not yours.
Then come back and seek commiseration, or advice as you will be less likely to take other peoples time and energy for granted. This will help reduce the general irritation directed at you at times.
Otherwise perhaps your signature or first line in the post should include a disclaimer stating clearly in autistic friendly language that you are not looking for solutions, but commiseration. (Considering this is the only place you seek support) This will be a fairer approach to take with communication to the other autists on this site who perhaps like me feel that you have been disingenuous about seeking support many times before. I wouldn't feel that way had you stated that you didn't want people to spend their time and limited social energy coming up with solutions to help you. Or discounted well considered advice by putting it in the same category as empty advice.
You have such potential, i wish you would stop taking it for granted, you always have something to loose, no matter how much you loose there is always more to loose.
I think you're making a very important point here. Prolonged depression and unhappiness (+isolation) can create a mental bubble and lead to a particular type of solipsism. There are a few people here who end up feeling that their misery is or must be greater than anyone else's and lose perspective in regards to others' struggles. Some of them not only post here a lot about themselves without ever offering support to others (I'm not talking about you, sly, I know you do) but sometimes end up dismissing, attacking and treating callously people who are sometimes even more vulnerable than themselves.
I think the best way of getting out of such a mental bubble is to actively concentrate your mental and emotional resources towards others - at least some of the time. Yourself, kraftie, Isabella, blazingstar, magz and a few others are actually proving this point very well. Their struggles made them more open and empathetic towards people instead of calcifying their hearts.
Thanks Bender
Even if other people awareness is a barrier, as it tends to be for people on the spectrum (though that is sometimes a matter of perspective and priorities) going through the motions of helping another fosters compassion for others.
Foster enough of it for others and it can cause cognitive dissonance between how you treat/view others and how you treat yourself.
That is what I would hope for Sly, as i said he has such potential that years later people still see this potential and it is that reason people have not given up on him. Thats not to be taken for granted.
He might not have much hope for himself, but others do.
I would very much wish for him to be well in himself, not any of that material or status stuff. Just healthy and well.
^
That's actually another great point you're making that I haven't considered before
Exercising kindness towards others might lead, at least in some cases, to learning to extend the same kindness to oneself.
And yes, sly could particularly benefit from treating himself less harshly.
Grammar edit
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"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley
Last edited by BenderRodriguez on 20 Sep 2019, 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Also for some reason I have just remembered that troll that bullied Sly relentlessly starting a few years ago...
He was effectively censored by her attacks on him, she moved on to other openly vulnerable targets after him. As they tend to do. If its tolerated by the community, individuals can bet that they might be next!! Not that that should be the motivation, but people don't tend to care until it's on their doorstep.
This to me was a way to silence him and forced him to internalise many difficulties, un doing whatever good the community support had done for him prior to this.
That cheesed me off.
Last edited by Amity on 20 Sep 2019, 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm going to stand up for Sly and say that his heart is far from calcified, if that's what this reference implies. He's helped and supported me innumerable times, and he is always compassionate when I need a friend. He's been among the most altruistic people I've met on WP. Yes, depression is a factor, but his heart is certainly not calcified and he is not self-centred.
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I never give you my number, I only give you my situation.
Beatles
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The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.
Last edited by Fnord on 20 Sep 2019, 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
I agree in regards to Sly, which is why I explicitly mentioned I'm not referring to him - I've seen him plenty of times offering support and kind words to others.
The quote tree directed this whole thing towards him, but if he's still reading this I'll reassure him once more that I didn't write my post with him in mind, but addressed what I consider some excellent suggestions made by Amity.
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"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley
