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marshall
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10 Jan 2012, 11:51 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
marshall wrote:
Well, I think figuring out what to do with yourself can be seen as a recovery step. You're not giving yourself enough credit. You're being way too hard on yourself. You're currently at one of the worst points in life due to all the uncertainty in the future. It would be stressful even for someone without depression or PTSD you've been forced to deal with. I think even the smallest things should count as progress.


Progress towards what.....death...I to me progress feels like a rather ridiciulous thing to focus on, since I seem to fail at it. Yeah I have to try and figure out something to do but I am not exactly confident I will find anything, nor that it will nessisarly be anything positive. I mean I would like to try and find a job I guess or if I find another creative option like some trade school or something if I find one in a field that intrests me but I'm not sure if I can get financial aid or anything for that at this point. But if I don't figure something out then its only a matter of time before my mom probably either straight up kicks me out or expects something impossible like rent out of me to stay there and kicks me out for that. Then I have friends houses I can go to but yeah I just feel like things are only probably going to get worse...so there is not much point in working towards progress just so I can see it all go to sh*t and be dissapointed yet again.


Well, this is the kind of response that can come off as harsh. All I can say is I can empathize a lot with what your going through mentally so it doesn't bother me personally.



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10 Jan 2012, 11:54 pm

marshall wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
marshall wrote:
Well, I think figuring out what to do with yourself can be seen as a recovery step. You're not giving yourself enough credit. You're being way too hard on yourself. You're currently at one of the worst points in life due to all the uncertainty in the future. It would be stressful even for someone without depression or PTSD you've been forced to deal with. I think even the smallest things should count as progress.


Progress towards what.....death...I to me progress feels like a rather ridiciulous thing to focus on, since I seem to fail at it. Yeah I have to try and figure out something to do but I am not exactly confident I will find anything, nor that it will nessisarly be anything positive. I mean I would like to try and find a job I guess or if I find another creative option like some trade school or something if I find one in a field that intrests me but I'm not sure if I can get financial aid or anything for that at this point. But if I don't figure something out then its only a matter of time before my mom probably either straight up kicks me out or expects something impossible like rent out of me to stay there and kicks me out for that. Then I have friends houses I can go to but yeah I just feel like things are only probably going to get worse...so there is not much point in working towards progress just so I can see it all go to sh*t and be dissapointed yet again.


Well, this is the kind of response that can come off as harsh. All I can say is I can empathize a lot with what your going through mentally so it doesn't bother me personally.


Yeah it kinda did but I really could think of no other way to word it.


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11 Jan 2012, 1:48 am

marshall wrote:
I think psychological trauma is real, but it don't think it's reason or justification for feeling miserable for the rest of your life. That's why using the word "survivor" rather than "victim" is preferable to people trying to recover. Words have emotional connotations besides their literal meaning. Victim might be literally accurate, but at the same time its not a very positive term emotionally. I don't think either term is a lie as one can be both a victim and a survivor. Survivor is simply a more preferable frame of reference.


I always thought survivor was where the victim is unaffected by what they went through and it didn't mess them up. Dave Pelzer calls himself a survivor and I figured it was because the abuse he got as a kid didn't screw him up as an adult because he lived to have a normal life and be a good adult than ending up as a criminal like most child abuse victims do and some others end up being messed up adults. Plus he grew up to be a normal father, didn't turn into an abuser. It's very common for abused children to grow up and repeat the abuse to their own kids. Those are not survivors there and Dave is.



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11 Jan 2012, 1:53 am

League_Girl wrote:
marshall wrote:
I think psychological trauma is real, but it don't think it's reason or justification for feeling miserable for the rest of your life. That's why using the word "survivor" rather than "victim" is preferable to people trying to recover. Words have emotional connotations besides their literal meaning. Victim might be literally accurate, but at the same time its not a very positive term emotionally. I don't think either term is a lie as one can be both a victim and a survivor. Survivor is simply a more preferable frame of reference.


I always thought survivor was where the victim is unaffected by what they went through and it didn't mess them up. Dave Pelzer calls himself a survivor and I figured it was because the abuse he got as a kid didn't screw him up as an adult because he lived to have a normal life and be a good adult than ending up as a criminal like most child abuse victims do and some others end up being messed up adults. Plus he grew up to be a normal father, didn't turn into an abuser. It's very common for abused children to grow up and repeat the abuse to their own kids. Those are not survivors there and Dave is.


And it so happens I was severely affected by what I've gone through and messed up by it......though I don't plan to have kids because I doubt I could handle it and I would not want to under any circumstances say something screwed up out of frustration to them or something.


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11 Jan 2012, 11:03 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I guess to put it bluntly I am kinda at the point where I feel like trying to recover, improve or get better seems far to overwhelming and stressfull and has proved to be far too tiring the times I have really tried.

So I guess I don't see what is so bad about just accepting whats wrong and coping with it, rather then pushing myself to make a bunch of self improvements I don't have the energy for. I mean that is just where my minds at, sorry if that offends anyone or whatever just trying to describe exactly whats going on.
Never mind then...


even after I try and explain this is honestly how I feel and that my intent is not to offend, someone has to go out of there way to criticize. sorry for feeling how I feel I guess.
Why is focusing on progress ridiculous while dwelling on your problems isn't? Dwelling on your problems doesn't give you any insight nor do they make you feel any better. The only possible benefit dwelling on your problems gives you is reinforcing your role as a victim. I said never mind then because the fact that you think dwelling on your problems is more worthwhile than focusing on solutions means nothing I say can help you since you aren't willing to help yourself. I used to make all sorts of excuses as to why the solutions are either impossible, not worth the effort, not worth looking it, or not worth considering. But now I know for a fact that if there's a will there's a way. I was so creative with my excuses that I figured well I could be just as creative with my solutions. I still struggle with dwelling on my problems or making excuses but ever since I decided that looking for solutions is much better for me than dwelling on my problems, I am a lot better off than I used to be. I can't tell you anything more than that until you decide to be more receptive to solutions.



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11 Jan 2012, 11:54 am

AceOfSpades wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I guess to put it bluntly I am kinda at the point where I feel like trying to recover, improve or get better seems far to overwhelming and stressfull and has proved to be far too tiring the times I have really tried.

So I guess I don't see what is so bad about just accepting whats wrong and coping with it, rather then pushing myself to make a bunch of self improvements I don't have the energy for. I mean that is just where my minds at, sorry if that offends anyone or whatever just trying to describe exactly whats going on.
Never mind then...


even after I try and explain this is honestly how I feel and that my intent is not to offend, someone has to go out of there way to criticize. sorry for feeling how I feel I guess.
Why is focusing on progress ridiculous while dwelling on your problems isn't? Dwelling on your problems doesn't give you any insight nor do they make you feel any better. The only possible benefit dwelling on your problems gives you is reinforcing your role as a victim. I said never mind then because the fact that you think dwelling on your problems is more worthwhile than focusing on solutions means nothing I say can help you since you aren't willing to help yourself. I used to make all sorts of excuses as to why the solutions are either impossible, not worth the effort, not worth looking it, or not worth considering. But now I know for a fact that if there's a will there's a way. I was so creative with my excuses that I figured well I could be just as creative with my solutions. I still struggle with dwelling on my problems or making excuses but ever since I decided that looking for solutions is much better for me than dwelling on my problems, I am a lot better off than I used to be. I can't tell you anything more than that until you decide to be more receptive to solutions.


Who says I have to dwell on my problems if I am not focusing on progress, its not as though those are the only two options. I mean I cannot particularly prevent myself from ever having thoughts about my problems, but yeah just because I am not into trying to progress or whatever does not mean I have to dwell on things nessisarly. I just feel I've been to screwed up mentally to expect to 'recover' so I might as well just make the best of it.


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12 Jan 2012, 11:22 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I guess to put it bluntly I am kinda at the point where I feel like trying to recover, improve or get better seems far to overwhelming and stressfull and has proved to be far too tiring the times I have really tried.

So I guess I don't see what is so bad about just accepting whats wrong and coping with it, rather then pushing myself to make a bunch of self improvements I don't have the energy for. I mean that is just where my minds at, sorry if that offends anyone or whatever just trying to describe exactly whats going on.
Never mind then...


even after I try and explain this is honestly how I feel and that my intent is not to offend, someone has to go out of there way to criticize. sorry for feeling how I feel I guess.
Why is focusing on progress ridiculous while dwelling on your problems isn't? Dwelling on your problems doesn't give you any insight nor do they make you feel any better. The only possible benefit dwelling on your problems gives you is reinforcing your role as a victim. I said never mind then because the fact that you think dwelling on your problems is more worthwhile than focusing on solutions means nothing I say can help you since you aren't willing to help yourself. I used to make all sorts of excuses as to why the solutions are either impossible, not worth the effort, not worth looking it, or not worth considering. But now I know for a fact that if there's a will there's a way. I was so creative with my excuses that I figured well I could be just as creative with my solutions. I still struggle with dwelling on my problems or making excuses but ever since I decided that looking for solutions is much better for me than dwelling on my problems, I am a lot better off than I used to be. I can't tell you anything more than that until you decide to be more receptive to solutions.


Who says I have to dwell on my problems if I am not focusing on progress, its not as though those are the only two options. I mean I cannot particularly prevent myself from ever having thoughts about my problems, but yeah just because I am not into trying to progress or whatever does not mean I have to dwell on things nessisarly. I just feel I've been to screwed up mentally to expect to 'recover' so I might as well just make the best of it.


I think you're getting hung up on the word progress. It's what you want, not what you think other people are trying to force on you. I don't think it's possible for someone to want to suffer. Obviously you're suffering now. Therefore anything that leads to feeling better in the long run is going to be progress. And I'm not saying just put on a happy face and suck it up while you're still suffering inside. I'm talking about genuinely feeling better.

If it's hard to imagine feeling any better, that's a symptom of depression. Lacking the imagination to picture yourself feeling better doesn't logically indicate that it's impossible.



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12 Jan 2012, 11:58 am

marshall wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I guess to put it bluntly I am kinda at the point where I feel like trying to recover, improve or get better seems far to overwhelming and stressfull and has proved to be far too tiring the times I have really tried.

So I guess I don't see what is so bad about just accepting whats wrong and coping with it, rather then pushing myself to make a bunch of self improvements I don't have the energy for. I mean that is just where my minds at, sorry if that offends anyone or whatever just trying to describe exactly whats going on.
Never mind then...


even after I try and explain this is honestly how I feel and that my intent is not to offend, someone has to go out of there way to criticize. sorry for feeling how I feel I guess.
Why is focusing on progress ridiculous while dwelling on your problems isn't? Dwelling on your problems doesn't give you any insight nor do they make you feel any better. The only possible benefit dwelling on your problems gives you is reinforcing your role as a victim. I said never mind then because the fact that you think dwelling on your problems is more worthwhile than focusing on solutions means nothing I say can help you since you aren't willing to help yourself. I used to make all sorts of excuses as to why the solutions are either impossible, not worth the effort, not worth looking it, or not worth considering. But now I know for a fact that if there's a will there's a way. I was so creative with my excuses that I figured well I could be just as creative with my solutions. I still struggle with dwelling on my problems or making excuses but ever since I decided that looking for solutions is much better for me than dwelling on my problems, I am a lot better off than I used to be. I can't tell you anything more than that until you decide to be more receptive to solutions.


Who says I have to dwell on my problems if I am not focusing on progress, its not as though those are the only two options. I mean I cannot particularly prevent myself from ever having thoughts about my problems, but yeah just because I am not into trying to progress or whatever does not mean I have to dwell on things nessisarly. I just feel I've been to screwed up mentally to expect to 'recover' so I might as well just make the best of it.


I think you're getting hung up on the word progress. It's what you want, not what you think other people are trying to force on you. I don't think it's possible for someone to want to suffer. Obviously you're suffering now. Therefore anything that leads to feeling better in the long run is going to be progress. And I'm not saying just put on a happy face and suck it up while you're still suffering inside. I'm talking about genuinely feeling better.

If it's hard to imagine feeling any better, that's a symptom of depression. Lacking the imagination to picture yourself feeling better doesn't logically indicate that it's impossible.


Well I am trying very hard to want this progress, but its not exactly working out....just not even sure what there even is to progress towards. I mean hell soon unless I find a job or some other way of having income I won't even be able to afford anything to take the pain away and then things are really going to suck. So I guess I am having a very hard time seeing what there is to look forward to at this point in time and not just because my mental state but because what I am sure is coming pretty soon.


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12 Jan 2012, 12:07 pm

Tequila got it right back on the first page. I spend portions of every single day contemplating suicide but I try to get on with life and not go on about it, you know? If you keep saying "oh, look at me, look at how terrible my life is" all the time, it comes across as blatant emotional blackmail, which is a really obvious form of manipulation that rarely works when done in that manner in real life, let alone via message boards.



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12 Jan 2012, 12:12 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
Tequila got it right back on the first page. I spend portions of every single day contemplating suicide but I try to get on with life and not go on about it, you know? If you keep saying "oh, look at me, look at how terrible my life is" all the time, it comes across as blatant emotional blackmail, which is a really obvious form of manipulation that rarely works when done in that manner in real life, let alone via message boards.


well sorry for coming to the Haven for support then, I mean I really did open up about a lot of things in this thread.....gotta love opening up and being honest with people only to have them say things to hurt you once your good and vulnerable.

So thanks for the very hurtful words they made me feel a lot better about my situation. :roll:


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12 Jan 2012, 12:16 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Asp-Z wrote:
Tequila got it right back on the first page. I spend portions of every single day contemplating suicide but I try to get on with life and not go on about it, you know? If you keep saying "oh, look at me, look at how terrible my life is" all the time, it comes across as blatant emotional blackmail, which is a really obvious form of manipulation that rarely works when done in that manner in real life, let alone via message boards.


I don't think you even realise how terrible this just made me feel........now that I know I am using blatent emotional blackmail to manipulate people into saying anything supportive or helpful I really feel welcome posting in the haven. I thought it was ok for me to talk about my problems in this section......but now I feel like if I stay here I might very well end up feeling even more suicidal. But I don't know where else to go to talk about this stuff so I guess at my own risk I will remain.

So yeah thanks man...


I'm not insulting you for anything, nor am I insulting this post - saying this stuff in the haven is obviously fine. I'm not implying that you are intentionally manipulating anyone either. I am simply referring to your general manner and how it is perceived by others. Sorry if I sounded too harsh.



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12 Jan 2012, 12:19 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Asp-Z wrote:
Tequila got it right back on the first page. I spend portions of every single day contemplating suicide but I try to get on with life and not go on about it, you know? If you keep saying "oh, look at me, look at how terrible my life is" all the time, it comes across as blatant emotional blackmail, which is a really obvious form of manipulation that rarely works when done in that manner in real life, let alone via message boards.


I don't think you even realise how terrible this just made me feel........now that I know I am using blatent emotional blackmail to manipulate people into saying anything supportive or helpful I really feel welcome posting in the haven. I thought it was ok for me to talk about my problems in this section......but now I feel like if I stay here I might very well end up feeling even more suicidal. But I don't know where else to go to talk about this stuff so I guess at my own risk I will remain.

So yeah thanks man...


I'm not insulting you for anything, nor am I insulting this post - saying this stuff in the haven is obviously fine. I'm not implying that you are intentionally manipulating anyone either. I am simply referring to your general manner and how it is perceived by others. Sorry if I sounded too harsh.


You did insult me.....you just said I am using blatent emotoinal blackmail and that its obvious manipulation. All I desire is a bit of support hence why I came to a support site but whatever now that i know posting how I feel is blatent emotional blackmail and obvious manipulation I'll try and remember not to say anything about my mental state I guess.


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12 Jan 2012, 12:21 pm

I said it comes across as emotional blackmail, not that you're intentionally participating in it. Honestly, actually read what I said. I'm trying to be helpful by pointing out how you come across to others, which is what you were on about in the OP.



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12 Jan 2012, 12:24 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
I said it comes across as emotional blackmail, not that you're intentionally participating in it. Honestly, actually read what I said. I'm trying to be helpful by pointing out how you come across to others, which is what you were on about in the OP.


Yeah and I've had family members and teachers and other people accuse me my whole life of 'making a big deal out of nothing', 'just doing it for attention.' ect when the truth is I am reacting to things the only way I really know how so what you said just seemed to add more fuel to the fire.

I already apologized for if I come off harsh or anything, but considering the subject matter, how emotionally close to it I am I think its natural that I might get a little bit defensive......sorry I don't know how to take massive amounts of criticizm without getting defensive.

Also I really don't know where else to post about my problems......but if you have a better suggestion than The Haven go ahead and suggest it. And yeah I imagine if most people think I'm just being manipulative and trying to blackmail people then I should probably stop posting here as too many more accusations of that will probably drive me even closer to feeling suicidal.


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12 Jan 2012, 12:40 pm

Sweetleaf,

I think what some of the other posters are confused about is this. Let me preface this by saying that I do not mean this in a negative or condescending way at all. It's just a sincere question.

What is it you are looking for from us?

I know sometimes I've posted vents and was looking for something, but what it was, I don't know now and didn't at the time. Like the incident with the cable guy who as it turns out confused me at my house with my son's baby mama at their trailer and told my BIL I was smoking meth in the bathroom. That's still not straightened out and I may post about it later today, because it's upsetting me. The cable man explained that he had gotten it wrong and mixed up, but no one in my family will listen to me, or to him - he has volunteered to call and straighten it out - about it, the prefer to just hate on me, because I'm not his weed connection. I may post about this to get my feelings out, or I may not. I want something done, but I don't know what.

Are you in that kind of situation, where you want things fixed and are just reaching out to people in hopes of some kind of new idea, or "magic fix"? I do not mean that in a bad way. It's a common reaction when we feel trapped.

Are you just wanting to vent and get it all out? If so, does that help?

Do you want suggestions to fix the situations, or do you just want your feelings validated? Either way is perfectly ok.

I think that you aren't getting what you need from us, and it causes hostility both ways. You post more about the problems, hoping to get what you need this time, and when it doesnt happen, it's upsetting. I'm guilty of the same thing in real life with my husband, who refuses and may be unable, to give any emotional support. Even when I spell it out to him.

Basically, I am asking what it is that you need from us. Most of us, I think, will be happy to give it, but you also have to remember that many of us (like me) aren't able to pick up on what you may need. I know of two things to do. 1) offer suggestions of what has worked for me, or what I think might work for you 2) listen and tell you that I'm sorry you are feeling that way. I see you have gotten both of those from people (along with some flack from people, because they may be frustrated with not knowing what else there is to do).

I mean this in the nicest possible way, and I'm asking because I sincerely do not know. What is it that you need from us? I'll be happy to do what I can do, but if I don't know what that is, I cannot do it.

No matter where you go, there will always be people who don't like you. There will always be somebody there to say something mean, to "drop a turd in the punch bowl" so to speak. As hard as it is when you are feeling bad, you have to let their comments go and focus on the more positive ones. You never know who is really behind the computer and typing to you. That person (and I do not mean anyone specific here at all - no one take offense please) may be a troll who just likes to upset anyone and everyone they can, or they may have serious personal problems going on that puts them in a horrible mood, or they may be in pain themselves with something physical which makes them snap at others, or they may have a psych disorder themselves that can cause them to act that way. My point with those examples, is that we don't really know why someone is mean to us online without knowing them in real life usually. Not unless they explain it to us.

There are many people here who truly would like to see you happy and getting better, but without knowing how to help you, and what you need right now emotionally, we can't do anything about it.

So, can you please give it some thought and tell us what we can do to help you feel better? I'd be glad to do what I can.

Again, this is not an attack or being mean to you. It's sincere and a real question.


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12 Jan 2012, 12:44 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
Sweetleaf,

I think what some of the other posters are confused about is this. Let me preface this by saying that I do not mean this in a negative or condescending way at all. It's just a sincere question.

What is it you are looking for from us?


I know sometimes I've posted vents and was looking for something, but what it was, I don't know now and didn't at the time. Like the incident with the cable guy who as it turns out confused me at my house with my son's baby mama at their trailer and told my BIL I was smoking meth in the bathroom. That's still not straightened out and I may post about it later today, because it's upsetting me. The cable man explained that he had gotten it wrong and mixed up, but no one in my family will listen to me, or to him - he has volunteered to call and straighten it out - about it, the prefer to just hate on me, because I'm not his weed connection. I may post about this to get my feelings out, or I may not. I want something done, but I don't know what.

Are you in that kind of situation, where you want things fixed and are just reaching out to people in hopes of some kind of new idea, or "magic fix"? I do not mean that in a bad way. It's a common reaction when we feel trapped.

Are you just wanting to vent and get it all out? If so, does that help?

Do you want suggestions to fix the situations, or do you just want your feelings validated? Either way is perfectly ok.

I think that you aren't getting what you need from us, and it causes hostility both ways. You post more about the problems, hoping to get what you need this time, and when it doesnt happen, it's upsetting. I'm guilty of the same thing in real life with my husband, who refuses and may be unable, to give any emotional support. Even when I spell it out to him.

Basically, I am asking what it is that you need from us. Most of us, I think, will be happy to give it, but you also have to remember that many of us (like me) aren't able to pick up on what you may need. I know of two things to do. 1) offer suggestions of what has worked for me, or what I think might work for you 2) listen and tell you that I'm sorry you are feeling that way. I see you have gotten both of those from people (along with some flack from people, because they may be frustrated with not knowing what else there is to do).

I mean this in the nicest possible way, and I'm asking because I sincerely do not know. What is it that you need from us? I'll be happy to do what I can do, but if I don't know what that is, I cannot do it.

No matter where you go, there will always be people who don't like you. There will always be somebody there to say something mean, to "drop a turd in the punch bowl" so to speak. As hard as it is when you are feeling bad, you have to let their comments go and focus on the more positive ones. You never know who is really behind the computer and typing to you. That person (and I do not mean anyone specific here at all - no one take offense please) may be a troll who just likes to upset anyone and everyone they can, or they may have serious personal problems going on that puts them in a horrible mood, or they may be in pain themselves with something physical which makes them snap at others, or they may have a psych disorder themselves that can cause them to act that way. My point with those examples, is that we don't really know why someone is mean to us online without knowing them in real life usually. Not unless they explain it to us.

There are many people here who truly would like to see you happy and getting better, but without knowing how to help you, and what you need right now emotionally, we can't do anything about it.

So, can you please give it some thought and tell us what we can do to help you feel better? I'd be glad to do what I can.

Again, this is not an attack or being mean to you. It's sincere and a real question.


I don't really know what I need or want, I just know I felt bad about something so I posted a thread in The Haven, to kinda vent about it see if anyone had advice I felt I could really follow or if anyone just had anything supportive to say......I don't know I'm just not doing to well in life not trying to be difficult but I am not quite sure what is being asked of me here.


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