Not Enjoying Living (Trigger Warning: Suicide)

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i can tell you that a failed relationship felt much worse to me than no relationship at all.

So you don't agree with the saying:
"It is better to have luved and lost, than to never have luved at all."

It is all life experience.
It isn't easy being on the wrong end of a breakup, but under normal circumstances, it is character building.

I doubt your position is going to influence TGI.
I'll bank on that.

i want my brother aspie to be armed with at least vicarious perspective.

Probably, but it depends on the circumstance.

Also, consider:
If Australia is invaded by China*, the first thing I will do is go the vet, and then, well, you know.
No way will I live under such a regime.

If I have a terminal disease, or face dementia, I'm off also.

Who knows, I might develop a close friendship with an S.O., for example.
I doubt I will get another pet.
I'd like to be able to fall off the perch whenever I choose.



I could understand if you had a terminal illness.
Do you experience a high degree of emotional pain?
Or just a sense of purposelessness?


Good point.



People have described a marriage breakup as being worse than dying.
I can't see it myself, but "they" do say that. <shrug>
I guess people can simply have a casual, no ties, on-going intimate relationship.



Gotcha.

Well, think of it this way:
Our social system determines what people usually want in a relationship.
As we know, if "you" aren't in a certain physical league, your options are limited.
However, If you were a billionaire, you would have no problems getting women, right?
If you don't measure up to social standards, you usually don't get "the prize".

Also, you have probably heard me say a "million" times, that we are the result of an unfortunate evolutionary process.
Most people are superficial because it is literally imbedded in our genetic coding.

Sexuality is a big part of life. While you can't go back in time and date as a teenager, you can hope for a few romantic or sexual experiences during the next decade with an attractive woman, but it is not guaranteed and very frustrating. You can make efforts toward getting to first, second, third, fourth base with a woman, get a date or meet a woman and then have what I guess is called a hook up, or have a short term dating experience for a few days or weeks. In this regard some advice from the Pick up artist 'community' is useful - dress up, work out, and put yourself out there and talk to women. For an aspie, it's more difficult, but it's still possible to try.

I am in the same situation actually wanting intimacy, dating, sexual and romantic things with attractive young adult woman, and my appearance is deteriorating too. My point is that if you approach the subject of dating women by reading books about and trying the basic things - you may be able to make something happen.

I have not found anything that makes get over about this sense of missing out and watching time go by. I generally don't believe Internet dating coaches for the most part, but this woman somehow got it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LlTaQU ... nT4dJ_Z8Wm

Bottom line, some things you have to do are concrete - wash, dress up, work out, go out and talk to women - and others are like 'practicing magic' arts things that don't make sense but somehow they do have a huge effect eventually, things like affirmations that she describes. If intimacy and sex is what you want, than work on it and give it your best shot. You may not succeed, but at least you will have tried.

if i could go back in time to my young self, i tell him, "self, if i were you i'd move mountains to buy sex, get it OUT OF YOUR SYSTEM before it eats you alive!"

In my experience, emotional, spiritual intimacy is rare, regardless of Neuro status, even in devoted couples. Life goes on, pretty much the same. It’s like sex in that no one can do it all the time every day. Even sex between devoted couples is not fireworks and deep communion every time, or even most of the time.

Craving intimacy, as I have done and I see you doing now TGI, is yearning for the impossible.

My life experience has been unusual for an aspie I think for 2 reasons.

1. I am (or used to be) a very good listener. Many people talked deeply to me and shared inner tempests and deserts.
2. In hospice and in the work I do now, I have met, been in the homes of, provided love and support to people in crisis or in need.

So you could say I have been emotionally and spiritually intimate with a wide range of people from different ages, classes, races and socioeconomic status.

But it is always one way. It is me supporting them. It is not reciprocal. I do this out of love for all people and a desire to relieve suffering. That is the way it is and I no longer feel badly about it. In fact, it brings me, at the end of the day, joy.

My point is, after all this rambling, that you may be reaching for something impossible.

As auntblabby says, a failed relationship can feel worse than none at all. Getting what you want (for the intoxicating few months you are in love) and then realizing that your dream is actually an impossible one...the only thing good about it is that the experience forces one to look at life as it is and not what one wishes it could be.

Sorry for the long post. Feel free to ignore any parts of it that don’t resonate with you. I still think you are moving in a positive direction and some of your fears about future disappointments are troubling you more than they need to.

(((TGI)))

Personal integrity is its own reward, I have found.
"I'm full of it."



This is the only part I ignored.

1. Yes. “It’s about the journey, not the destination.” It’s about an attitude of continuous improvement, always striving to do and be better. I literally have the characters for “Kaizen,” tattooed on the inside of my left wrist to remind myself of this. One doesn’t decide to be financially responsible, save up $1,000, and then blow every penny thereafter. No. They continue to build wealth. Same same goes for health and fitness and knowledge and skills etc. There is no finish line. People don’t look to a hard working determined person and say “Wow, he gave it his all until he was 28yo and in peak condition with great earnings capacity and then he just gave up on being disciplined for the rest of his life and that’s sooooo attractive!!” No. But the guy who’s 50 and has been busting it since he was 15 and is still in great shape with good habits and is Still learning and growing, earning and achieving, and has no plans to ever really stop - that’s attractive!

2. Because you’re not NT and have social deficits to overcome and compensate for with physical fitness and financial success.



So exercise when you can and do what you can. I probably did something like 400,000 pushups over a period of a few years but never did them for more than 3 minutes at a time. Go for walks/jogs when you can. Morning, evening, night etc. Metabolically it’s best to exercise early AM but I’m such a night owl I’ve gone for like one morning run ever, countless evening ones, and several late night ones.

“Abs are made in the kitchen, not the gym,” is a quote for a reason. Healthy diet is perhaps even more important than regular exercise.

Good progress! You’ve already gotten a start, keep the momentum going.



That’s just the depression going. Fact is, 1,000 days will pass and you’ll either have had some romantic experiences or you won’t, but you’ll still be going despite not being able to envision it atm.



Yet you describe dark circles under your eyes, which is a physical sign of salicylate acid sensitivity & buildup, and therefore it is Possible that your depression is in part caused by biochemical root causes. 70% of people on the spectrum are sensitive to salicylate acids, so it’s not only possible, but IMO, probable. The antidote, so to speak, is to use epsom salts on your skin to absorb the minerals required to excrete excess food acids out via urination.

I’ve done many other things, too, and you’re welcome to read about them and try them for yourself/pm about them. I’ve never understood why anyone on this forum at their wits end wouldn’t be willing to try the things that have worked absolute miracles for me. Does not make any logical sense, IMO, to choose to allow ongoing ASD misery vs attempt to treat symptoms.



Good! Now keeping making changes you want to make!

As for dating later in life, there are no rules that say you can’t date a 20-25yo at age 50. It’s not all That uncommon. With physical fitness & money, it’s ever more possible. Simple fact of the dating world. I bartended for several years and have seen this play out many times.

Ok, I am going to try to exercise and eat at home again and forget about socializing and dating for a while. If I never get to socialize and have sexual/romantic things, so be it. If you don't exercise/eat well, you will feel like crap. Exercise feels good by itself anyway and will change your perspective.

You should read some of these going out reports from guys who are also odd and trying.. a warning - most of the Pick Up Artist advice is dangerous and misleading and does not work and inappropriate and will offend people and create problems, but some of it is good. You have to carefully pick out safe things to try. Look at this link: https://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/vi ... 327f7de5d0

You feel bad because you don't eat well or exercise, not because you don't date. Start to exercise and eat well and you will OK about not dating.

Has anyone sPoken with the grand inquisitor recently?

It's mostly to do with a high degree of emotional pain and the well-founded fear that my 20s are going to fly by without me ever getting those experiences I crave.

I'm really bummed (like, really bummed) that I never got to date in my teens/the first few years of adulthood, and honestly, I'm probably never going to be at peace with that fact. If I have to miss out on dating in my 20s as well, that's too much, especially because there's no guarantee anything will improve after that either.

Not to mention that from my lack of dating situation, I've accrued a number of sensibilities that, when "triggered" often immediately dampen my mood, like seeing couples or hearing people talk about relationships and experiences I desperately want but can't have. It doesn't help that encountering these "triggers" is unavoidable.


Paying for sex would do little to address what I'm depressed about. Honestly, I think there's a good chance that paying for sex would actually make me feel worse.

What I'm after is genuine romantic (and sexual) interest reciprocated from another person. If I'm paying for it, I know it's a farce, and I'm not going to be able to get past that fact and enjoy it.

The only reason I would ever even consider seeing a prostitute is to arm myself with sexual experience so I'd be prepared on the off chance that I ever met someone who actually wanted to sleep with me, but I don't want to lose my virginity that way, and then I'd be stuck with the narrative "the only time you ever got someone to be physically intimate for you, you had to pay for it". That's at least as bad as "nobody's ever wanted to be physically intimate with you".

If I was lonely and lacked friends, I'd feel similarly about the idea of paying someone to be my friend.

Perhaps I'm using the wrong word, or we're working with different definitions, or you're right but I don’t have the life experience to understand. What I want is a good quality romantic relationship with someone who likes me for who I am, and who I feel the same way about. Heck, I'd settle for someone who reciprocates romantic or sexual interest at this point. That'd be a big step up from what I've had thus far.


I would argue that getting to experience those intoxicating few months is better than not. At least then I'd know what it was like to be in love, I'd know what it was like to feel that romantic connection. Even if there had to be an explosive break-up involved, I'd take that over being forever alone, not feeling good enough for anyone and completely divorced from understanding what it's like to be in a romantic relationship any day.

There are quite a few reasons that this situation I'm in bothers me so much, and I actually spent about an hour and a half writing a post for this thread detailing them as best I could. I didn't even get to addressing all of them before I gave up on the post. I saved it though, so I might come back to it later.

No, but I have seen him post. Just now.

Ok. All valid concerns & obviously very real to you and your life.

So, what are you going to do about them?

This will sound like an oversimplification, and it’s supposed to - problems are multi-fauceted and complex, sure, but in the end all problems are simply just problems with causes you can almost always do something about.

In business problem solving we sometimes use a very simple Isihikawa Diagram (or just thought process vs pen to paper) to work through the causes of an “Undesirable Effect.”

The UDE gets written down in a box, and in this case it might be “attraction not reciprocated,” and then a simple herringbone fish diagram is drawn and for each “bone,” the question “Why?” is asked and answered, giving you a list of possible reasons for the UDE. Ask “Why?” to each of those and branch off with answers again and again until you get down to what the likely root causes are And then it becomes clear what actions you can take to affect positive change on these things.

Really, if you’re honest with yourself about the things you believe aren’t attractive enough about yourself to attract a date, you should be able to isolate the things you Can do to make self improvements in each of these areas that will make you ever more attractive to others.

I’ll list a ridiculous example for examples sake:

My skin isn’t orange enough and ladies here <3 the trump look. —> Why? I’ve never suntanned, fake tanned, or spray tanned. —> Why? Didn’t realize until now it was a shortcoming, didn’t have the time or $, didn’t want the radiation or clothes staining dye. —> Etc etc - but what I Can do about it is get a tan/fake tan/spray tan and see how it changes my outcome.

Yes, this example is stupid. It’s supposed to be. I didn’t want to pick out things you may be sensitive about that you believe make you unattractive to others - that’s more of a personal exercise in identifying areas for improvement. These things may have to do with health, fitness, appearance, behaviour, wardrobe, occupation, skills, income, assets etc etc or other things - but surely there’s a list, and if you think about them there Are things within your control that you Can in fact do to change yourself and in turn your chances.

Yes, I am 100% of the camp that people must change themselves to become more attractive to potential partners. Full stop. People don’t just go pick out dates or partners like apples at the supermarket. People don’t go find girlfriends as if they’re lost puppies to be found. People attract dates & partners by improving themselves until they are attractive to others.

A typical list for someone like us may include:

Depression/anxiety - treat/manage/overcome these things with everything from medication to exercise.

Physical fitness - obvious diet and exercise.

Appearance - haircut? Wardrobe/style? Etc

ASD symptoms - treat, manage, and control them. It’s not 1990 anymore. Treatments are known. I Know because I’ve been doing it for about 8 years now & have been extremely transparent about it all here on these forums.

Skills/interests - take up the hobbies that people are into and meet people by in your area.

Etc etc. None of this is rocket surgery. Plan the work, work the plan, measure the results, adjust the plan and keep moving forward.