09 Aug 2009, 7:35 am
09 Aug 2009, 9:11 am
09 Aug 2009, 12:01 pm
RedTatsu wrote:
The other kids were arguing that homosexuality is disgusting because the Bible argues against it.
... One girl exclaimed that I was getting too poisonous.
... One girl exclaimed that I was getting too poisonous.
Gotta love bigots' hypocrisy.
I am sorry that you had to spend time around homophobic people who wanted to sit around and talk trash about queer people, refuse to listen, and take great offense at anyone who disagrees. I would have found that very frustrating too, but given their culture, I'm not surprised by their behavior.
I'm sorry that they shunned you and that you felt so left out that you couldn't go to the cast party. That sounds like it hurt. However, I wonder if you could take a step back and stop feeling so ashamed for a moment: is their opinion of you really worth your attention? You do realize that people who use the Bible as a justification for homophobia are usually taught that engaging in queer sex is evil, and that queer people are responsible for an imminent societal collapse, right? Why would you listen to those people? They're wrong. They've been indoctrinated by their parents to be bigots. Too bad for them, but not your problem.
If you feel like you need support or to talk about this experience, I strongly encourage you to contact your local PFLAG chapter: it stands for Parents and Friends of Lesbians And Gays (link). Most PFLAG chapters run support groups or peer hotlines where you can talk about experiences where you encountered homophobia. As you've discovered, homophobia hurts more than just queer people; it divides communities and prevents people from forming friendships and other human bonds.
You could also contact one of the organizations listed at the World Congress of Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Jews (link), under "GLBT Jewish Resources". There are many local organizations which provide support to LGBT Jews, families, friends and allies of the community. You would certainly fall in that category, having experienced homophobic discrimination. I hope these help you.
09 Aug 2009, 3:58 pm
studentM wrote:
Yes, homosexuality is mentioned in the New Testament - Romans 1:27-31.
Romans 1 wrote:
27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
It is mentioned, but then goes on to talk about all the other bad things being done by those same people.
So if you homosexuals don't do all those other things listed, how much of that can be transferred onto them?
Matthew 7 wrote:
16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
So therefore if it were altogether wrong, and homosexuals couldn't be good, then you wouldn't have any who were doing good things.
A lot of the parts of Paul's epistles are very specific, too.. they're not necessarily talking about something being right or wrong across the board, but addressing problems in the specific places he was writing them to.
1 Corinthians 11 wrote:
5And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.
But even if it's the hair that is the covering, which seems kinda ambiguous anyways, that would mean that it's wrong for a woman to have a short hairstyle, or maybe even to pull her hair back. That'd be considered a pretty extremist point of view, though.
studentM wrote:
Yes, it does depend on the camp - I mentioned that in my first post. But, as a parent, if I had sent my child to this event to learn a musical, and one of the leaders decided arbitrarily that he would have a talk with the children about gay rights because that was a passion of his and he felt compelled to share, I personally would find that inappropriate. I would find it equally unsuitable for a leader to share his political views, or religious views, or any other provocative topic. The camp isn't about him and to have a personal agenda other than teaching my child about this play is unacceptable.
Now, having said that, I would take context into consideration. If one of the other camp members was being ganged up for professing to be gay, or if the one of leaders was gay and then questioned by the children about his views, then I would understand a need to talk openly.
My concern is that lack of tolerance is a problem for both sides. In a perfect world, everyone would be willing to listen to the opinions of others and in the end say, 'We can agree to disagree'. But, as we all know, that's not how most conduct themselves.
Now, having said that, I would take context into consideration. If one of the other camp members was being ganged up for professing to be gay, or if the one of leaders was gay and then questioned by the children about his views, then I would understand a need to talk openly.
My concern is that lack of tolerance is a problem for both sides. In a perfect world, everyone would be willing to listen to the opinions of others and in the end say, 'We can agree to disagree'. But, as we all know, that's not how most conduct themselves.
Ok, well I guess part of my confusion on the camp issue is that I can't really imagine all of camp to be about one thing. (unless it's like band camp, in which case it's not actually camp, it's just two weeks of marching and playing 8 hours a day) All kinds of stuff gets talked about at camp cause you're with those people all the time for a week or 8.
But also, gay rights issues are in the news, and issues in elections and stuff all the time. So it could be an issue that anybody might start talking about, whether there was someone gay there to be questioned or not. How would a gay counselor talking about it be more appropriate than someone who had it on their mind because they saw something about gay marriage on the news or something?
(Now again, remember that all my camp experience is from Girl Scouts.. we didn't have the issues with homosexuality that Boy Scouts have. Unless something has changed in the last few years, the Girl Scouts don't have a problem with lesbian leaders or anything, it's just considered acceptable. As far as I know there haven't been any problems with abuse, uh, gay recruitment, or anything like that.. Not that those things are generally problems with men.. I believe that 90% of the men who molest boys are actually straight.. it's a power thing more than a sex thing.. but yea, I'm on a tangent now..)
studentM wrote:
I'm also half Jewish, and I've often wondered about the lack of blood atonement for Jews. I did ask a Jewish man sitting next to me on a plane once, but he couldn't answer. But I just looked it up and found an explanation: http://www.jewfaq.org/qorbanot.htm
I am too, and it's on my mother's side, which makes me officially Jewish, but my grandfather was very atheist, so the Judaism is ethnic, really not religious. Usually asking about the sacrifice thing gets people pissed. They'll say something about "changing with the times" and act like I'm horrible for wondering. I'm not a rich little perfect JAP so they don't like me.
That site is good, I think I've been there before looking for something else, but it was at least before I reloaded my computer to get rid of that virus known as Vista. Thanks!
13 Aug 2009, 9:29 am
