Using 'concrete' thinking to beat depression

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OneStepBeyond
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29 Nov 2011, 6:37 pm

logical! that's the word i couldn't bloody think of, thankyou dee

Ann2011
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29 Nov 2011, 6:40 pm

Moog wrote:

Ann2011 wrote:

MXH wrote:

ive tried this and just made things worse.

I've had the same experience. Depression is real; it causes negative thinking. If you treat it by trying to change thinking patterns you are treating only one symptom, not the cause. This can lead to blaming the patient for their own illness because they can't change their brain chemistry with mind control. It's like telling someone with diabetes that they should be able to mentally control their insulin levels.

To use your analogy, some people can control their diabetes through eating correctly. Some have to use drugs. It is the same with depression, as I see it.

No one is blaming depressed people for being depressed here. I'm sorry you are reading this with that in mind. I am sorry that others prefer to blame rather than trying to help.

I agree that there are varying degrees of depression and that treatment too can vary.

It is good that you and others want to offer help.

deconstruction
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29 Nov 2011, 6:41 pm

It's difficult for me to talk about depression. My father was clinically depressed and I guess you could say it killed him.

So I'd love to know how to make any person affected feel better, but I don't.

Moog
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29 Nov 2011, 6:48 pm

deconstruction wrote:

It's difficult for me to talk about depression. My father was clinically depressed and I guess you could say it killed him.

I am sorry to hear that, maybe that's something you need to 'integrate' at some stage. Perhaps bereavement counselling or something could help, if you've not had any.

Some things are very painful and we have to just lock them up somewhere inside until we're ready to deal with them.

I would hope that if you spoke about your feelings here on WP, then someone would listen.

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So I'd love to know how to make any person affected feel better, but I don't.

Well, you don't have to, you probably have other skills and talents. It's blinking hard, I think professionals find it challenging to deal with. We can't all be depression gurus.

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MXH
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29 Nov 2011, 7:06 pm

Moog wrote:

Ann2011 wrote:

MXH wrote:

ive tried this and just made things worse.

ive fund nothing that has helped mie because ive found nothing that erased the symptoms. No ammount of pills or thinking is going to fix that. If anyhing they just made it worse.

Moog
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29 Nov 2011, 7:16 pm

MXH wrote:

Moog wrote:

Ann2011 wrote:

MXH wrote:

ive tried this and just made things worse.

ive fund nothing that has helped mie because ive found nothing that erased the symptoms. No ammount of pills or thinking is going to fix that. If anyhing they just made it worse.

Well that's a bummer.

I think all I can do is point you to an article or two. Perhaps you need to go back to your doctor, and really rule out all your options.

http://www.webmd.com/depression/guide/t ... depression

Hope you find your solution.

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MXH
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29 Nov 2011, 7:21 pm

No doctor or pill is going to fix this. A miraculous change of luck might, but other than that which we all know wont happen no matter how much im told to think positive the nly ther fix is removing the problem itself.

deconstruction
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29 Nov 2011, 7:24 pm

Moog wrote:

Well, my father died (committed suicide) 20 years ago, so there was a lot of locking and unlocking of feelings along the way.

But I don't want to make this thread depressing.

MXH
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29 Nov 2011, 7:56 pm

deconstruction wrote:

But I don't want to make this thread depressing.

dont worry i already did that

deconstruction
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29 Nov 2011, 9:09 pm

MXH wrote:

deconstruction wrote:

But I don't want to make this thread depressing.

dont worry i already did that

No, I meant in a way, I mentioned an example of a person who'd received professional help, but it didn't work.

MXH
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29 Nov 2011, 9:12 pm

deconstruction wrote:

MXH wrote:

deconstruction wrote:

But I don't want to make this thread depressing.

dont worry i already did that

No, I meant in a way, I mentioned an example of a person who'd received professional help, but it didn't work.

i recieved profesional help and it obviously didnt help

marshall
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29 Nov 2011, 10:32 pm

I think a therapist should realize there's a difference between what people verbalize and what they actually believe. People will say something like "I'm totally useless" or "I can't do anything right" as an expression of self-directed frustration. It isn't always something to be taken literally. It's similar to the phenomenon of splitting where people exaggerate something in a very black-and-white all-or-nothing manner as an expression of emotional exasperation. You could say this kind of talk isn't productive, but it doesn't necessarily represent the core of what's going on internally in terms of negative thoughts.

From my personal experience suffering from depression most of my life, depressive thinking isn't so much exaggerating the negative as it is hyper-focusing on the negative to the exclusion of all else. If I'm thinking about the future or something I have to do, all the negative possible outcomes immediately swarm my mind. It's not that these negative thoughts aren't real possibilities, its that my mind gets inordinately stuck on them while thoughts of positive possibilities are passed over quickly. But really, getting out of negative rumination patters is one of those things that's easier said than done. It usually isn't possible to try and think my way out of it. It takes an external change. I have to place myself in a different environment somehow to stop the cycle. It's almost like I need a strong distraction to jar myself away.

Sweetleaf
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30 Nov 2011, 2:08 am

Moog wrote:

Not once was the word cure used... huh?

I'm sorry I provided this thing that might prove useful to some people. Nitpick if you want, I guess that might be a symptom of being a negative thinker, right? :lol:

Let's say 'help manage then'.

Medication doesn't cure depression either.

And if your negative thinking is not a cause of any problems in your life, then that's cool. For me and (I assume) others it really is a cause, since negative thinking can hold you back in life, and being prevented from doing what you need or want to do in life can become a cause of depression.

Well it is rather hard to think positively when most of your life has been negative experiances........I mean maybe your advice works for some people, but I don't think that would help me much I mean I don't remember a time when I was not depressed so I don't really have any happy state of mind to go back to.

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DialAForAwesome
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30 Nov 2011, 9:58 am

OneStepBeyond wrote:

:? what if, you start thinking about 'how exactly you're useless' and find lots of perfectly valid points. sitting having a long hard think about why you're useless isn't necessarily going to help you stop being useless, nor feel any better about it than if you were to only have passing thoughts of uselessness. some people have valid reasons to be depressed?

sounds like a way to beat negative thinking, rather than depression
which may in turn beat depression for some people

Bingo.

And.....

Sweetleaf wrote:

Bingo.

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deconstruction
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30 Nov 2011, 12:39 pm

marshall wrote:

From my personal experience suffering from depression most of my life, depressive thinking isn't so much exaggerating the negative as it is hyper-focusing on the negative to the exclusion of all else. If I'm thinking about the future or something I have to do, all the negative possible outcomes immediately swarm my mind. It's not that these negative thoughts aren't real possibilities, its that my mind gets inordinately stuck on them while thoughts of positive possibilities are passed over quickly. But really, getting out of negative rumination patters is one of those things that's easier said than done. It usually isn't possible to try and think my way out of it. It takes an external change. I have to place myself in a different environment somehow to stop the cycle. It's almost like I need a strong distraction to jar myself away.

Excellent point.

I just wanted to add that depression isn't always baout the bad things happening in your life. It often is, but depressed people can despair in other circumstances and telling them to simply "stop whining" is not going to help them magically. My father, for example, he had a good life, for all I know. A wife and a kid, a good job (he was an University professor, but that's respectable in my culture). We weren't rich, but he never wanted to have much money. People liked him and he had many friends.

Moog
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30 Nov 2011, 1:00 pm

The irony of the overwhelming negativity in response to this thread is not lost on me

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