You're a victim?

Page 2 of 12 [ 183 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 12 Next

Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,476
Location: PA, USA

07 Jan 2012, 6:01 pm

We seem to have a mindset (in America and England, anyway) that you're supposed to keep a stiff upper lip. Not be angry, not be hurt, not be confused-- just stuff all the negative emotions into a box, pick up some optimistic pissed-off self-righteousness (this is referred to as "strength"), and get on with it. Believe you're right, whether you are right or wrong (or, more likely, in the middle).

I think it's pretty ret*d, myself.

The essence of depression is, you're down. You're down, and you've been hit so hard or been down for so long or you're just so far down that you don't know which way up is anymore.

I see nothing wrong with talking, screaming, sobbing, bitching-- at great length, if necessary-- about how sh***y you feel.

That is, as far as I can tell, how you move from "victim" to "survivor" WITHOUT dragging along a shedload of baggage that's going to consciously or unconsciously influence decisions you make and how you see the world for the rest of your life.

I think it's worth maximizing the irritation to minimize the scars.

Most people don't agree.

_________________
"Alas, our dried voices when we whisper together are quiet and meaningless, as wind in dry grass, or rats' feet over broken glass in our dry cellar." --TS Eliot, "The Hollow Men"

Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

07 Jan 2012, 6:08 pm

cathylynn wrote:

victim definitely has a negative connotation, so much so that folks with breast cancer or who have been raped don't call themsleves victims, but breast cancer survivors and rape survivors.

Indeed. Which is why I think, at least on some level, Sweetleaf likes wallowing in her own misery.

It's not so much that Sweetleaf has problems. Lots of people on this board do and we are all quite sympathetic to each other's issues and problems. But when that self-pitying 'poor me' attitude permeates seemingly every post by direct or indirect reference to it whilst ignoring the advice of others about how to deal with it and move on and keeping a brighter demeanour, some people's patience starts to wear thin. It becomes less about her own misery (which, in another context, we might happily sympathise with) and more to do with attention-seeking and moaning.

It was like this woman I once knew who told everyone she ever met how her father would make her masturbate him as a child. Now of course this is a horrible thing for a father to do to his daughter but she told nearly everyone she ever met and was the most narcissistic and attention-seeking women I've ever met. Quite the headcase, really (she took great delight in messing up any man who showed her interest) and very much "damaged goods". She had had a pretty bleak upbringing (and ended up in children's homes) but it seemed to me that she had never really moved on from the behaviour of her childhood and was using men to sort of have sex with her father by proxy, later dumping them who didn't match up and mocking any others she felt "didn't match up". She sometimes came to work with big bruises on her face, clearly the result of, erm, "sessions". I couldn't really call them BDSM sessions as there simply didn't seem to be the safety, reassurance or consent involved - it was more like she wanted men to abuse her. Nasty woman, really.

Anyway, my point is: if you have things that are going on in your life, people will be able to help you overcome them by giving advice if you can. What annoys people is when they give advice in good faith, it is ignored and the person originally asking the question carries on whinging seemingly completely ignoring what they were told. Those people, you just can't help. And it's why, frankly, I am losing my patience. If there were an Ignore button on here, I'd be using it in this case.

Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

07 Jan 2012, 6:46 pm

Tequila wrote:

cathylynn wrote:

victim definitely has a negative connotation, so much so that folks with breast cancer or who have been raped don't call themsleves victims, but breast cancer survivors and rape survivors.

I do not enjoy wallowing in my misery, if I enjoyed it why would I complain about it? and I really don't see how that's how I come across in most of my posts...I think you're just seeing it that way. Because I really do not see what you're getting at. What is the point in posting here if I'm expected to have a brighter demeanor and only post positive things when I am feeling down? You don't have to read my posts...and and honestly I would prefer you didn't if you're just going to be a jerk.

So I have to follow every bit of advice someone on here gives me? I kind of disagree.......I don't mind advice but not all advice works for me and I might disagree with the advice. But I do my best to be civil about it, I'm just not going to lie and say advice is helpful when its not because that kind of defeats the purpose of posting in the first place.

and you're losing your patience? well how would you feel when you really are struggling with a lot of things and it's very overwhelming and people just dismiss how you feel or react to it as attention seeking, whining, faking ect.........that has been the case for a lot of my life and I guess I thought it would be different on this website.....but I guess I was wrong people here are just as intolerant and ignorant about me as my teachers and classmates were and now I am kind of afraid to post anything else on this site for fear of being kicked while I'm down like your doing right now.

_________________
Tis the time to melt the Ice.

Apple_in_my_Eye
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,420
Location: in my brain

07 Jan 2012, 6:47 pm

Tequila wrote:

She had had a pretty bleak upbringing (and ended up in children's homes) but it seemed to me that she had never really moved on from the behaviour of her childhood and was using men to sort of have sex with her father by proxy, later dumping them who didn't match up and mocking any others she felt "didn't match up"

You seem to lack insight into how people work. You actually said what very likely is going on with her but somehow miss the import of it. People's psyche's are not like in movies where if they see something differently then all of the sudden their problem is solved. A person might be able to intellectually see their problem, but that understanding doesn't make their instincts and emotional reactions suddenly change. Their reactions are likely the result of 'bad learning' which displaces 'good learning,' (so that even if the bad stuff is dealt with then there is a still a hole where normal people have adaptive responses) and is woven into a web with all the other people they have to deal with (i.e. family), whose influence they might not be able to easily escape.

It's easy to take your own instincts and reactions for granted (especially when they aren't dysfunctional) and assume that they are innate and fundamental (IOW, not learned).

Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

07 Jan 2012, 6:54 pm

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:

and is woven into a web with all the other people they have to deal with (i.e. family), whose influence they might not be able to easily escape.

I understand this but, as far as I can tell, she hadn't seen her father for years anyway. She grew up in a local children's home (she was not originally from the area) and perhaps that had something to do with it. Doesn't excuse the way she treated people though.

sufi
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Age: 77
Gender: Female
Posts: 553
Location: mid-michigan

07 Jan 2012, 7:09 pm

Everyone who has lived has been a victim of something. It is part of nature, society, being human.

The roles people can play are victim, abuser, rescuer. We all fluctuate between the three with favoritism in one or two roles and can flip in seconds from one to the other, or play all three parts with in our own minds. The cycle of abuser hurting someone, the victim feeling pain and the rescuer trying to solve or come between the other two, happens every day. And it can get confusing.

Just look at this post: and please do not take offense - just pointing out the role play

Sweetleaf - victim, looks for rescuer
Tequila - steps in to be negative adding new abuse (not intentional, just seemed harsh)
Sweetleaf - reacts first as victim and then in self defense her own rescuer then,
switches to abuser and goes on attack alert
Everyone who has lived has been a victim of something. It is part of nature, society, being human.

The roles people can play are victim, abuser, rescuer. We all fluctuate between the three with favoritism in one or two roles and can flip in seconds from one to the other, or play all three parts with in our own minds. The cycle of abuser hurting someone, the victim feeling pain and the rescuer trying to solve or come between the other two, happens every day. And it can get confusing.

Just look at this post: and please do not take offense - just pointing out the role play

Sweetleaf - victim, looks for rescuer
Tequila - steps in to be negative, not giving Sweetleaf the response she is looking
for adding new abuse (not intentional, just calling it)
Sweetleaf - reacts first as victim and then in self defense her own rescuer then,
switches to abuser and goes on attack alert
FalsettoTesla -rescuer voice of reason for both sides
FalsettoTesla - switches position to protect Tequila and state victim experience
Sweetleaf slips back to victim
Tequila - rescues with the voice of reason
Sweetleaf - responds as rescuer with understanding
Sweetleaf - moves to abuser spot to defend and rescue self
purchase - joins as a rescuer and post theory similar to this one.
Sweetleaf - connects with purchase
marshall - joins as rescuer, then flips to abuser
Apple_in_my_Eye -joins as rescuer
cathylynn - joins as rescuer
Sweetleaf - is in victim mode looking for more rescuing
BuyerBeware rescuer
Tequila - a harsh rescuer of tough love
Sufi - adding her two cents as rescuer (maybe flip to victim and the abuser -
I could snap at any moment, ...ya never know)

My point is we all flip all three position very quickly.
And it seems to me Sweetleaf, you can be your own abuser by negative thoughts of your self which allow you to stay in the victim mode. But just in this post (and others by you) you have proved you have the strength to be your own defender by going to rescue by abusing the abuser or also your own rescuer by understanding.
Sweetleaf - keep and open mind for greater understanding and you work
towards rescuing yourself

_________________
If you have one option you have an obsession.
If you have two options you have a delema.
If you have three options you have a choice.
Look for three or more options.
"I'm not too crazy about reality, but it's the only place to get a decent meal.

Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

07 Jan 2012, 7:12 pm

sufi wrote:

If anything this really does only make me feel worse on the grounds that now i have to wonder how in the hell I am abusing anyone...I don't feel like I am very capable of that role. Lets face it I don't have enough confidence or whatever to ever be in a position where I can have much emotional or physical effect on anyone. I'm just an easy target.

_________________
Tis the time to melt the Ice.

Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

07 Jan 2012, 7:13 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

I do not enjoy wallowing in my misery, if I enjoyed it why would I complain about it?

As a plea for sympathy and attention. It's attention-seeking behaviour.

Quote:

and I really don't see how that's how I come across in most of my posts...I think you're just seeing it that way.

Quote:

Because I really do not see what you're getting at.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see."

Quote:

and only post positive things when I am feeling down?

No-one is asking you to do that. You seem to be constantly down, but that's not what I'm getting at.

Your best bet is to keep the 'down' posts for in here rather than trailing them across the board.

Quote:

and honestly I would prefer you didn't if you're just going to be a jerk.

I'm just telling you what you don't want to hear. Self-pity will not get you anywhere. I've been there too... and it doesn't help. Eventually you have to dig yourself out of that hole as best you can.

Quote:

So I have to follow every bit of advice someone on here gives me? I kind of disagree.......

Again, you're misconstruing what I'm saying here - wildly misconstruing, actually - in order to perpetuate your status as 'victim'. Sometimes, people on here offer good and helpful advice which you'd be well-advised to take. If you are still on here, say, a month later acting the same way to a problem then one wonders when you were listening in the first place.

We all have bad days - me too. But I try not to let it affect my postings here as other people don't necessarily want to read negativity all the time and it grates on the rest of the board. Broken records quickly become annoying.

I think I've said my piece; frankly, I've had enough of contributing in this thread.

Essentially, you need to stop seeing yourself as a victim that needs to be rescued (as one of the above posters said) and start seeing yourself as a full human being in charge of your own life. Only then will you begin to feel happier.

Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

07 Jan 2012, 7:33 pm

Tequila wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

I do not enjoy wallowing in my misery, if I enjoyed it why would I complain about it?

As a plea for sympathy and attention. It's attention-seeking behaviour.

What do you suggest then that I don't post at all anymore? by that logic the act of posting by anyone here is attention seeking behavior, so that would make you one to I guess.

Quote:

and I really don't see how that's how I come across in most of my posts...I think you're just seeing it that way.

No, you do, whether it's you whinging about how the lower class are exploited to you whinging about not having any friends (I'm really not surprised!) to you whinging about not having a proper job to you whinging (again) about capitalism, it seems that nothing makes you happy. Your 'poor me' nature runs through your entire posting history and it is tiresome.

The lower class is exploited, and I actually do have a few friends.....its just hard for me to make and keep friends, I can barely function well enough at most jobs and yeah it kinda sucks you know. But thanks for being totally unsympathetic and continuing to try and really kick me where it hurts simply because things aren't exactly making me happy.

Now, I'd understand it if you kept these posts to the Haven and took the constructive advice I'm sure you've been offered but people like yourself don't really want to change.

If I am posting about politics, music, ect I am going to post about those things in the correct forums, I'm not just going to only post in the haven. And when did I say my goal is to change, that's not my goal my goal is to figure out how to live my life in a tolerable at least somewhat enjoyable manner.

Changing that miserable, pouting avatar of yours would be a start. That alone gives the nature of some of your posts. I don't constantly mention the EU but you constantly mention how you're so hard done to. You're worse off than Congolese women, Pakistani Christians and gays in Iran combined! Just give it a rest.

What attacking all the character flaws you see in me wasn't good enough for you, now you have to make fun of the way I look, thanks man. And I never said i was worse off then everyone else nor do I think that.

What I'm trying to say is: try to be a bit more positive in the rest of the forum. Look beyond your own needs and look at other people's for a change. You might make a few more friends that way, love. It can happen but in your present state I can't imagine many people wanting to spend time with you anyway. Misery loves company and all that.

I can't be more positive, why can't you get that through your head.....and you ripping me to shreds on here for pretty much feeling bad about things I ought to feel bad about is certainly not going to help me be more positive. I guess I had better tell the people who care about me that they should probably stay away from me because I'm feeling down rather then be supportive.

Quote:

Because I really do not see what you're getting at.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see."

Or you could try to explain things so they make sense.

Quote:

and only post positive things when I am feeling down?

No-one is asking you to do that. You seem to be constantly down, but that's not what I'm getting at.

Your best bet is to keep the 'down' posts for in here rather than trailing them across the board.

I am constantly down....and i usually do keep my down posts in here, I feel like the post I was first attacked on was fine for that forum as it is about politics. I guess you don't like the wording about how I don't feel the things the media says are true about me or most people below middle class but that hardly means I should have posted it in the haven.

Quote:

and honestly I would prefer you didn't if you're just going to be a jerk.

Quote:

So I have to follow every bit of advice someone on here gives me? I kind of disagree.......

Again, you're misconstruing what I'm saying here - wildly misconstruing, actually - in order to perpetuate your status as 'victim'. Sometimes, people on here offer good and helpful advice which you'd be well-advised to take. If you are still on here, say, a month later acting the same way to a problem then one wonders when you were listening in the first place.

We all have bad days - me too. But I try not to let it affect my postings here as other people don't necessarily want to read negativity all the time. Broken records quickly become annoying.

And you're misconstruing a lot of things about me as well. Also I am sorry I don't take everyone's advice that you think is fit for me.....but at least I'm civil about it and don't attack the person for offering constructive advice. If I am still on here a month later acting the same way to a problem that probably means it hasn't been resolved yet am I supposed to just not be effected if the same issue is still going on months later?

Then as I said DON'T read my posts if it bothers you that much that I'm not particularly happy.

I think I've said my piece; frankly, I've had enough of contributing in this thread.

If contributing is making me feel like a really vulnerable, useless, vindictive, whiny, annoying fake piece of crap, then you contributed greatly so thanks again for kicking me while I'm down it really made my day and my time on this forum so much better. So much better maybe I'll just ask the mods about deleting my profile since I've obviously worn out my welcome here on wrong planet.

_________________
Tis the time to melt the Ice.

AngelKnight
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 3 May 2011
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 749
Location: This is not my home; I'm just passing through

07 Jan 2012, 8:07 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

Why is 'oh you're a victim' an insult?.....yeah I am a victim of bullying, PTSD from a traumatic experience, loneliness, depression, anxiety and a not so great childhood among other things. So I just don't understand what that means as an insult really. I mean are there people who go through their lives without ever being a victim of anything? and are they the majority?

So yeah I don't get what that means when people say it like an insult, but I know it usually makes me feel bad so maybe if I understood it better I could avoid experiencing further emotional discomfort.

To the question...

Being a victim is an insult because there's an implication that a victim is helpless, therefore weak, partly through the victim's own efforts. The connotation is that there's a part of the victim that chooses to stay in the predicament that victimizes him or her.

Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

07 Jan 2012, 8:13 pm

AngelKnight wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

Well I disagree with the choice part, yes it would be very nice to move on and not feel like a victim anymore.......but that hasn't happened, I don't really know how to move on from everything and it feels like there is nothing to really look forward to in the future which just makes it seem pointless to try as well. Obviously its not a very good thing but I don't think I should be put down for it as I am not really doing anything to hurt anyone else.

_________________
Tis the time to melt the Ice.

BuyerBeware
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,476
Location: PA, USA

07 Jan 2012, 8:29 pm

[quote=sweetleaf]If anything this really does only make me feel worse on the grounds that now i have to wonder how in the hell I am abusing anyone...I don't feel like I am very capable of that role. Lets face it I don't have enough confidence or whatever to ever be in a position where I can have much emotional or physical effect on anyone. I'm just an easy target.[/quote]

Interesting thought.

Something I have learned-- EVERYONE has the power to have an emotional (and sometimes physical) effect on other people.

One's own misery, a lot of the time, brings others down. Whether this is because it holds up a mirror into which they do not care to look, or because it stirs up their own baggage, or some other unknown factor, I'm really not sure. I couldn't go that far in psychology classes without declaring a major in the subject...

...and I don't suspect I would have found many answers in a department still trotting in BF Skinner's footsteps like a pack of Pavlov's dogs anyway.

Rescuer?? Not quite. Pissed-off, outspoken, opinionated victim. :lol: *waves wildly*

_________________
"Alas, our dried voices when we whisper together are quiet and meaningless, as wind in dry grass, or rats' feet over broken glass in our dry cellar." --TS Eliot, "The Hollow Men"

Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,278
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

07 Jan 2012, 8:36 pm

BuyerBeware wrote:

Interesting thought.

Something I have learned-- EVERYONE has the power to have an emotional (and sometimes physical) effect on other people.

One's own misery, a lot of the time, brings others down. Whether this is because it holds up a mirror into which they do not care to look, or because it stirs up their own baggage, or some other unknown factor, I'm really not sure. I couldn't go that far in psychology classes without declaring a major in the subject...

...and I don't suspect I would have found many answers in a department still trotting in BF Skinner's footsteps like a pack of Pavlov's dogs anyway.

Rescuer?? Not quite. Pissed-off, outspoken, opinionated victim. :lol:

*waves wildly*[/quote]

Well maybe i just have a lesser effect, I mean its already been made clear part of the reason people feel the need to give me crap is because they perceive me as weak, so that leads me to believe I am an easy target because people can say horrid things to me and even treat me badly with little to no risk of anything happening to them. I mean what am I going to do come up with a come back that makes me look like an idiot and gives them more to laugh at.

_________________
Tis the time to melt the Ice.

marshall
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,752
Location: Turkey

07 Jan 2012, 10:03 pm

AngelKnight wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

The notion that people have everyone has the same level of control over how they feel is quite dense and insulting. Some people think they know what clinical depression is like because they've "had a bad day" or "had to overcome problems in their life". That has f*****g zero to do with mental illness.

OliveOilMom
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Age: 62
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,447
Location: About 50 miles past the middle of nowhere

07 Jan 2012, 11:43 pm

I think Sweetleaf is just overwhelmed with the problems going on in her life and doesn't know how to even begin to solve them. It sounds to me like she feels defeated before she even starts, and I've been there myself. Everywhere you turn, another brick wall. How do you get out of that?

As for attention seeking, maybe nobody in her life is giving her the kind of attention or emotional support she needs, and by posting about her problems here she's hoping to get it here. There is nothing wrong with that at all. Maybe she doesn't feel important to anyone in her life, or the people in her life don't help her feel validated and thats what she's needing. I don't know, but those are some things that could be going on.

I've had major depression myself, and it's bad. You lose all hope and you think things will never get better and you can't even see how to start making them better.

I'd personally suggest that she sees a psychiatrist for antidepressants and some therapy. That's what helped me. It seems futile to do that when you are depressed, but if you make yourself try, then the meds can help you start to feel better and the therapy can help you get things sorted out so that you can get out of the situation you are in.

As for those who want to put her down for posting negative things, just don't read her posts if they bother you. It's pretty simple. Just because there is no ignore feature doesn't mean you are required to read every post by everyone. Telling someone they are wallowing in self pity has never made anyone else go "you know what, you're right! I'll stop right now!" unless the person was only a bit down about something that wasn't all that important. A kick in the pants can work for some people over some things, but when you are seriously depressed, it will only make things worse.

I'd also suggest to Sweetleaf that she cut out the alcohol for a while. Been there, done that. It feels like it helps you with how you feel, and it does to an extent for a little while, it numbs the pain and gets you out of your head for a few hours, but alcohol tends to cause depression for days after drinking in some people. It does in me. Try staying away from it for a few weeks and see if you feel any better. The first three days are pretty bad but the way you think starts to change after that, or it does for me. I can sometimes see a little optimism after it's all out of my system and my brain chemistry is back to normal. It can cause that from just a few beers in some people just like it may take an entire bottle of vodka in others to cause that level of depression.

These are just my suggestions. Hope it helps.

_________________
I'm giving it another shot. We will see.
My forum is still there and everyone is welcome to come join as well. There is a private women only subforum there if anyone is interested. Also, there is no CAPTCHA. ;-)

The link to the forum is http://www.rightplanet.proboards.com

Greatsharkbite
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Jun 2009
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 711

07 Jan 2012, 11:57 pm

I'll try to keep my post relevant as possible to the topic.

Its my personal opinion and experience that everyone experiences certain levels of trauma in life or have major issues. One in 6 people have a diagnosable disorder, 1 in 4 women have been raped or sexually assaulted etc etc.

I think even though this is a play on words i'm about to use here. There's a general difference between victims and victimization. People who have been victimized suffer, victims are for whatever reason unable to look past that. Whether by choice or not.

I don't think there's anything wrong with sweetleaf's posts whether or not they are optimistic or not.. I also don't think this (or any other topic for that matter imo) is a place to declare whether or not anyone finds them acceptable or not. But I mean for one this is the haven--also the subject is off topic.

I think purchase had it exactly right. Advice isn't one size fits all, even if lets say sweetleaf could apply the advice, who chooses how fast she needs to apply it? If a post irritates you-- as its been said, ignore it.

That said.. I wouldn't let one.. or even two (or more) individuals convince you to delete your profile. You said you sometimes find the advice and posting here helpful? Keep with it.

Last edited by Greatsharkbite on 08 Jan 2012, 5:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Page 2 of 12 [ 183 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 12 Next

Jump to:

You're a victim? Post Reply New Topic

You're a victim?