Feeling better: I'm so depressed and isolated by this forum

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Don't give up too soon. Autistics (incl people with Asperger's, PDD and similar disorders) have a different way of thinking and you need to get used to that. It will probably help to develop a thick skin. It is very easy to give the wrong impression on a forum and doubly so when dealing with autistics. It may help to slow down a bit and just follow the threads a bit before jumping in. You do seem to have a very high posting rate!

I see you like jokes. Jokes can be tricky. Many autistics are very literal and some have a limited understanding of what is funny and what is not. If you tell a joke, most NTs would immediately recognize it as a joke. They may not find it funny but they would recognize it. Now an autistic may well see the joke and take it literally. Afterwards they may start worrying 'was that a joke? Should I have found that funny?' If they do take it literally and then later realize it was a joke they may feel foolish or annoyed. Instead of amusing someone you have confused them or made them slightly anxious. The first two answers to your 'Excessive NT disorder' post are perfect examples. It took me a moment to work out what you meant by that post.

NT bashing is a bit of a WP sport I am afraid. It is pretty common for minorities to bash the 'others'. I am ashamed to admit I've done it a few times myself. Don't take it personally.

I advise you to spend a little more time looking beyond the stereotypes.

Judging by your post, you seem to have the strange idea that all people with Aspergers are good at grammar, and all NTs are bad at it. I have no idea where that idea came from. Grammar does not form part of the diagnostic criteria.

I can only assume that you know one autistic person in real life and they happen to be good at grammar, whereas you, being NT, happen to be bad at it. You probably see yourself as the definition for all NT people, and your one Aspie friend as the definition of all Aspie people, so you think being NT means "being bad at grammar" and being autistic means "being good at it."

You are completely and entirely mistaken.

People all over the world (whether Aspie or NT) have different hobbies, personalities, likes, dislikes, talents, strengths and weaknesses. Some are good at grammar and some are bad at it. Some have not even learned to read or write. Some are geniuses. Some are not.

However, it's normal to think in terms of stereotypes at first. I did it myself, until I'd learned more about it.

Just spend a little more time here, or do a bit more reading on Aspergers.

By the way, I find it offensive when NT people say they want to "help me" or "cure me" of my Aspergers. I would never be so rude as to "help" you to be cured of your neurotypical brain and impose my autistic lifestyle or way of thinking onto you. What gives you the right to do the same to me in reverse?

Thanks Razor's edges. I'm starting to feel better.

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Last edited by Smartalex on 21 Apr 2012, 2:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

Hey, I think I prefer Razor's edge to RazorEddie

Er, well, I am afraid I mostly live up to your stereotype:
genius - not really. Above average intelligence maybe.
engineer - check
programmer - check
asocial - CHECK

Aspies tend to notice details and like well defined rules. Grammar has fairly well defined rules so to many, spelling and grammar mistakes stick out like a sore thumb and can be irritating. I'm afraid your tendency to point out your own grammar mistakes rather than just fixing them can be rather annoying. Not all Aspies have good grammar, just as not all NTs have poor grammar and spelling. Having poor grammar does not automatically define you as NT.

Yes, Aspies are usually more to the point. Most of us don't see the point of beating around the bush.

One problem is that the Aspie point of view changes a lot depending on which Aspie you talk to. There are very few hard and fast rules on how an Autistic person thinks. I mean that very literally. Some of us think almost exclusively in images. They have no internal narrative and speech has to be translated from those visual thoughts. Tell them to imagine a pink tiger and they will see one in fine detail, possibly even as a full 3D movie. Others like me are virtually incapable of forming images in our heads and have a strong internal narrative. Ask me to imagine a pink tiger and I'll think of the concept of a tiger then add pink to it. No picture at all. Those different ways of processing thought are going to have profound effects on the way we perceive the world and interact with it. Other abilities also tend towards extremes. Tony Attwood describes this phenomenon well. NTs tend to be reasonable at most things though obviously some are better at some things than others. Autistics tend towards extremes. They are either very good at something or very bad. There is little middle ground.

I don't think there is a hatred or dislike of NTs. It's more likely a case of people with autism trying to understand how to function/survive in an NT-dominated world - the sort of issue you may come across with any minority group within society.

I think it's worth bearing in mind that no two autistic people will be exactly the same - we are talking about a spectrum, after all. The National Autistic Society website gives some very useful information if you want to do some further reading about autism.

I suggest you spend a little time doing some observation - just lurking in the forums, getting an overview of the sort of issues that concern us. Read through some discussion threads from start to finish (sounds obvious and I'm sure you already do that) and you should find that you get a sense of how the threads evolve - you may notice an absence of social chit-chat and an apparent bluntness in the way people communicate with each other sometimes.

My other suggestion is to try and imagine how autism affects people - the difficulties it causes with social interaction, for example. Think about what it would be like to not understand jokes, sarcasm or innuendo, for example. This may help you to appreciate the issues that aspies and other people with autism face. But please, don't try being like an Aspie in order to fit in, people are likely to see through you!

Thanks lundy girl, thanks razor's edge eddie.

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Last edited by Smartalex on 21 Apr 2012, 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ah. Now we are entering the realms of theory, and rather shaky theory at that. If you don't mind churning through a wall of text, this article explains the origins of the left/right brain theory.

If you try to apply it to the autistic spectrum then you get the same variability that you get with other autistic traits. For example I am pretty extreme 'left brain' - logical, unemotional, poor imagination, poor artistic abilities etc. On the other hand there are plenty of very artistic and emotional people on the spectrum as well. I guess, as a general rule there are probably more 'left brain' than 'right brain' autistics.

This site has a pretty interesting take on left/right brain theory from an autistic perspective.

Sorry.

Last edited by Lytig on 20 Apr 2012, 3:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Last edited by Smartalex on 21 Apr 2012, 2:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

I have quite a different take on this thread than " an attempt at manipulation". I just learned something really interesting about how NTs are different in communication style than autistics. It's like seeing a dance where only one person knows the waltz.. very enlightening.

For SmartAlex: I think it's good you want to understand. Trust me when I tell you this, though, it's like understanding the ocean when you're a bird. We will talk around you and you will talk through us, but in the end, we're both human beings just wanting to be happy.

I think those of us on the spectrum just take a while longer to warm up to somebody new than NTs. Don't let it get you down. As long as you're open minded I'm sure people will warm up to you eventually. Also, I have no idea how anything you said could be seen as manipulation. Mainly I just see no reasonable motive for manipulation. I guess you could just be fishing for sympathy, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

I don't think that's fair at all.

Wrong Planet is a supportive community for people with autism/aspergers or other neurological differences. It's a place they can come to and share their concerns, experiences etc and feel safe. NTs are very welcome to join, but if they (or any other member for that matter) start to manipulate other members or break the rules in any way then the moderators will get involved.

If you have been told that you are being manipulative, maybe you need to look at the way you interact with people on this site?

Last edited by lundygirl on 20 Apr 2012, 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Smartalex, don't feel bad. If I understand correctly, you are trying to learn about the experience of Asperger's for your teaching and in your relationship with your girlfriend. If I'm wrong on this please correct me. I can only speak from my own experiences ... I was born in 1970 and in the '70s there was very little chance of an accurate diagnosis. I was made to feel that I wasn't trying hard enough and that I was self indulgent - that if I tried hard enough I could be just like everyone else (whatever that means.) I'm blithering on about this because often when people say things like "overcome" and "learn to deal with" it brings back feelings of inadequacy and laziness and my personal favourite - that I'm "spoiled." I know things have progressed a lot since then, but I still have my guard up. I don't know if it's possible for a "Neurotypical" to understand what it's like to have Asperger's, but it's great that you are trying to learn. I've tried to understand what it's like to be Neurotypical and I haven't gotten anywhere with it, but I like to think that if people try to understand each other, it leads to a greater harmony.

Jesus, really?

If it helps, I always welcome help and suggestions. The only help I don't like, is if someone advises me as if they know better, or if they haven't read my post properly and start advising me. Otherwise, I think I'm more open-minded than most people, simply because I don't see it as someone trying to change me. I see it as someone trying to help me understand, which is something I really treasure. That's if the person trying to help me is truly trying to understand who I am, and point out what I'm doing that's wrong, rather than forcing their opinion or belittling me. I know the difference between helping someone and putting them down. Anything I learn from people, I see as a gift. I *want* better myself, for myself and for other people. Change is good. Change makes people flexible and opens doors in life.

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Well, to be honest, online is the only place I can place people into the phenotypes of "NTs" and Aspies. Like once in a blue moon, I'll see someone and go "he/she's like me" and then dig closer and be like "ah....probably that Aspergers/NVLD thing." But, really, it's pretty rare meeting Aspies in the wild. The diagnostic rate is 1/100, and for my specific subtype of Aspergers if you would, NVLD, or nonverbal learning disorder, the diagnostic rate is 1/1000 (oddly I know 4 people with diagnosed NVLD.) So with that in mind, it's really hard to hate 99% of the population.

That said, there are definite differences, and ways you gotta learn to deal with people based on their subtype or whatever. Unfortunately, it's much more to expect 99% of the population to change the way it deals with the 1%. More often, the 99% expect the 1% to change the way they deal with the 99%.

Basically, just be as nice as you can to the people with Aspergers. I've learned in life to judge people a bit more "broadly." Basically, you gotta learn what you can, get out of what you can out of various groups of people you encounter. And in these groups, you're going to have some groups you favor, but there's going to be good and bad people in all of those groups. So you can categorize people, but only to a point. In the end you have to find out individually what makes up a person.

Oh well, I'm rambling now, but yeah.