My therapist actually thinks ABA and restraints are okay

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Muna, that sounds horrendous

Muna, your experience in the wilderness sounds just awful - I'm so sorry you were put through that.

And OliveOilMom and wozeree, thank you - you're both right, I should try not to worry about it (ABA and restraints) as much, since it isn't an immediate threat. I tend to overreact about those kinds of things sometimes.

OliveOilMom, I appreciate your advise, but I disagree with most of it. I think people either do or don't have that strength. That's the difference between people who do and don't survive lots of things. It would have been easy to walk into the river and die and no one would have stopped me. You cn google lists of names of kids who killed themselves during or after this. I find the perspective that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger kind of insulting. They only hurt me. They hurt me on purpose and they actually used every technique listed on a paper about the 8 ways they used mind control on prisoners of war in North Korea on me and thousands of other people who survived similar programs. I'll try to find the youtube about it when I have access to a proper computer tomorrow. I know you were trying to encourage me, but it's just as inappropriate to tell a survivor of institional abuse that they should find the positive in it as it would be to tell a survivor of another violent crime. Please don't think I'm upset with you for saying it though. I just see it as a myth in culture that benefits those in power like dysfunctional family leaders and it's one that I state my disagreement with at every opportunity.

I got nothing but pain from what they did. The people I'm grateful to are two of my friends who would let me get really drunk and talk about what happened. They would hold me when I was mostly blacked out and sobbing and feed me bread. Another person I owe my life to sort of ran an unofficial teenage homeless shelter on his living room floor. He was a steel worker and i remember sleeping in army blankets that smelled like steel dust never felt so safe. And I'm grateful to my husband. Last time I had a severe panic attack was last Monday when I decided I'm ready to fight this. I cried and projectile vomited for fifteen hours after waking up from a nightmare I still can't quite remember. He changed out the bowls while I wretched and sobbed and he googled ways to try to make the sickness stop. I think I would have ended up in the hospital if he hadn't helped me.

It wasn't so much military training as a prisoner of war type thing. My husband was in the army. Consent plays a huge role in subjective experience. Even in special forces training you're allowed to quit and given medical treatment if you need it... What I went through ws a long, slow, terrifying violent crime that lasted about 8 months.

But this isn't about me anymore because I did survive and now I've got enough to eat and I'm loved and safe and happy and sometimes I just have to keep reminding myself I'm safe now. And i can talk about it and still sort of function at my part time job. And when I'm not in the middle of a panic attack I'm mostly a good friend and wife. But there are still dozens of places like that in the United States today. And in them right now, this very second, are lots of neuro diverse people like us being slowly tortured this very minute. And now that I've defeated their brainwashing enough that I can handle slight confrontation, the best thing I can do for myself is try to help the kids who are being brutalized as I type this.

I'm not sharing this stuff because I need sympathy. Suffering is suffering and some people have had it much worse than me. Quite a few have it much better. Just because mine is bigger or got hit harder doesn't mean other suffering doesn't count. I share because I want to help people. I'm hoping people see that as long as it's not stopped it could happen to anyone. I want people to see that and to help me find legal ways to stop them. Maybe people who don't wake up from nightmares puking and who are higher functioning that me can take point on this. My husband said, "So you want to be a footnote in history?" Yes.

I think if the original poster was concerned about the therapist supporting restraints and a behavior modification technique. I still support trying to get a clearer definition of exactly what is being supported. If it's what you went through, while it sounds like there were problematic bits of your treatment, it doesn't sound abusive. If he's supporting what I went through, he should be educated, shamed, or arrested as appropriate.

I'm sorry if this came off as angry. I'm not angry at you or at any of you. I do feel like my anger at them acts as a strength generator and it's my friend. Anger is a response to pain. It's either that or implode. Allowing myself to get really, really angry at the right people has allowed me to feel the full weight of what they did to me. Being able to be angry was actually the key to stopping drinking in a bad way for me. I am still raw and emotional over all of this and I'm sorry if it's hard to read. But I'm angry at them and not at you.

I know you are angry at them, and what they did was horrible to you. It was really horrible! I suppose the main thing I was wanting to get across to you is that I want you to feel strong, because you obviously are. You are having problems with it now, of course. POW's have problems after they come home and they get help for it, but the one thing that cannot be disputed with them, and I think with you, is that inner strength that they and you both have. I don't think you can see it now because emotions are getting in the way, and have to be dealt with. Being strong doesn't make emotions any less, and it doesn't mean you don't have them and feel them to the extent that you do. I just don't want you to lose sight of your strength. They didn't make you strong, it was already there. It just came out when you needed it. I had thought that maybe knowing you do have that strength would be somewhat comforting. You'll never have to use it in a situation like that again, but knowing it's there, makes you, to me anyway, kind of awsome. Does that make any sense?

I used to be weak. So, so, so weak. And I had to get strong by going through hell. Not the kind you went through, but hell, nevertheless. Some physical and some emotional. I personally, tend to rely on that knowledge that I am strong. It does help me when I'm faced with a shitstorm of crap I have to deal with. Just remembering that I am strong, even without remembering all the details of how I got there, helps.

Have you been seeing someone for PTSD? Because it really does sound like you have it. You may not want anything to do with the strength because you see it as a by product of their torture but it isn't. It came out because of that, but you had it in you all along. Does what I'm saying make any sense? I can't think of how to explain this the way I'm thinking it. I'm thinking in concepts and it's hard to translate them into words at the moment, plus I overslept and didn't get up till 1230 this afternoon after going to bed at about 1 or so, and I usually get up at about 7 then so I'm all messed up for the day and have a sleep hangover (yes, a sleep hangover is possible, but most people laugh at me when I say I have one). When I get my caffiene and nicotine levels back up to normal, I might be able to find the right words, or maybe not lol.

_________________
I'm giving it another shot. We will see.
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Thanks so much for your compassion. Hell is hell no matter what the degree, and I'm so sorry you went through things, too, but happy for you that you discovered how strong you are. You strike me as a very strong, kind person.

I think your words are the kindest and most anyone besides my husband has spoken to me about this for a long time. I'm so scared of overwhelming him because i feel so overwhelmed myself.

You're probably right about PTSD. You're the second person to suggest that to me in a few weeks.

My brain is still having trouble with the understanding exactly what you're saying, but picturing being strength:
Dandelions are the strongest plant. No matter how much you cut the and poison them, the keep coming back. And they stay kind and generous even despite that, what with being edible, medicinal, and a symbol of wishes like falling stars and all. So if i am a dandelion when I'm scared, and remember my roots (strength) , that might help? Is that what you mean? Even close?

The reason I'm not sure it would help to seek treatment:
When I saw a psychiatrist for something else I came away from that with prescriptions for Buspar and a benzodiazepine. I tried benzos. Relaxing, yes, but I didn't want to take a drug I would be guaranteed to get physically addicted to, and the Buspar helped but people kept asking me if I was okay. I quit taking it because even on the smallest dose it apparently seriously affected my ability to present sorta normally. I don't like ssri type meds. So I think they would talk nonsense or suggest i do some really hardcore drugs that just aren't for me. The idea of paying for conversations makes me deeply uncomfortable.

It's like being caught in an emotional flash flood the last two weeks now that I'm allowing myself to feel this even when I'm not extremely drunk.

What did you do with the hell you went through? Did talking about it actually help? Did you get more help from professionals or friends? Do you think it's possible to be strong enough to just put the memories down and fight to stop them but not feel it anymore? Or feel it but be okay? Sometimes I think things happen that are so bad there's nothing to be done except put it away. Did you make it through the other side of it yet?

When i think of the words "my brain" right now, the picture I get is a lunatic who just broke out of a dungeon. The lunatic is now skipping through a field of dandelions, making wishes, raving at the sun, laughing and crying, and trying to calm and center and decide what to do next.

I do know exactly what you're talking about with a sleep hangover. I get them sometimes, too. I hope the coffee and nicotine make the world right again.

Your words have done so much to help me calm and center. I'm starting to feel like the randomly bursting into tears part of feeling this might almost be over. Thank you for the gift of your thoughts and time.

What I did was, I got angry and let it out. If you haven't noticed, I'm more of a physical person. I get my stuff out in physical ways because when I try and talk it out it bores people to death. They just don't want to hear it. I went to a gym and beat the hell out of a heavy bag. Lifted weights while angry and yelling. I even did what my friend that used to teach self defense classes to rape victims did on his first class - I bought a bunch of dishes at a junk store and threw them against the wall at an empty warehouse that was abandoned. I wet a ton of paper towels and threw them against the wall screaming obsceneties. I got it OUT. Then I would remind myself, when somebody got in my face that I went through s**t and could take a punch and also dish one out and stood my ground. Yes, sometimes I did get my ass beat, but more often than not I'd channel that anger and beat the dude down when he tried to hurt me. I REMEMBERED my strength. And I held on to my anger because it's very motivating. I'm not angry at all guys. I'm angry at particular guys and i take that anger out appropriately on guys just like them.

The best thing I ever did to make myself feel safe, back when I was about 20 was to develop my body. I worked at that gym every day. I loved it. It was empowering. There were some other girls there bodybuilding and they helped me. Without exception, all of them had been victims before. They truly helped me. I'd so suggest that for you.

Whether or not yu think so, in my book you are one awesome gal to get through that. You are truly a hero. Hero's survive when others can't. Be the hero. Take that with you throughout your life. Yes you had horrible s**t happen to you. There is no excuse for it. Do not let it go, do not forget, do not forgive. You have a tool that lots of people don't have. That deep, seething rage that you can use when your back is against the wall. Trust me on this.

You go girl! You got the goods, for real. And the makings of a badass if you will allow it. See yourself as the hero, even for just a second. Every time you think of yourself as the victim, just make yourself stop and envision yourself as the hero, the survivor, the guy walking out of the flames of the explosion there, just for a few seconds at first. The one nobody wants to f**k with. Because you can be that person. And because of what you went through, you are guaranteed never to become a jerk about it and pick on the wrong people and be a bully.

For real girl, you got something in you that needs to come out and be used. Get it out as anger if you can. If nothing else, today, go get a ton of paper towels. Tear them off and wad them up, each. Wet them in a bucket and take them outside and throw them against the house and SCREAM when you do it. Scream whatever is in your head. SCREAM at the asswipes who did this to you. All that. It won't get it all out but it's a start. Cry after, if you can cry and it helps. But do what you got to do to get that layer of fright and helplessness off it and use it for what you need to use it for. You got bigger balls than you think you do, and as soon as you dig deep enough to find them, youll be happier I think. ((hugs))

_________________
I'm giving it another shot. We will see.
My forum is still there and everyone is welcome to come join as well. There is a private women only subforum there if anyone is interested. Also, there is no CAPTCHA.

The link to the forum is http://www.rightplanet.proboards.com

OliveOilMom and wozeree,

Thank you both so much for your suggestions and ideas. Yesterday I walked five miles after I got off work. I'm not in a place where there's anywhere to scream, but I will when I can.

Afterwards one kind thing my parents did was let me pick out two treks from a company that wasn't at all abusive. They didn't know it because I never would have told them, but it was like seeing a bully when you grow up. Sometimes they look a lot smaller. Getting to deal with nature on my own terms helped me heal from it a bit and also let me direct my anger more. It wasn't nature that hurt me.

Nature gave me the tree that kept me from burning even more than I did, and the cliffs that kept my mind whole. I did eventually walk into the river naked on the bad trip when they left me alone out there for three days, but it was because I decided that that very moment as a 15 year old my childhood was over and I had to be a woman now.

It's so weird but you two, OOM especially, have helped me so much these past few days.

I've been waiting to hear back from my mom after this. I told her and sent her lots of informational links, which she said she'd read. It took her about a week to even write back. Below is what happened. But remembering my strength did help.

*****

Edit: I removed the letters even with identifying information taken out because even with that and even with how angry i am, i started to feel like i might have accidentally violated an expectation of privacy.

******

Thank you both so much again. *hugs if okay*

I want to keep writing and let that anger seethe and grow. I don't want to let it out early. I want to be such a storm of rocks and dandelions and rivers and wind and rage that I break the system so bad it can never get off its knees again.

In the last day or two I started to have an idea to do a graphic novel about this kind of stuff. I've never been super good at drawing because I have a ton of trouble with my fine motor coordination. But I had the idea to maybe take things in nature and make scenes out of them and take pictures. I love the textures of things in nature. I can seriously stare at tree bark for...a long time without getting bored. The writing isn't the problem. I think a good picture can have an impact a thousand words can't. Maybe that would be a way I could help stop it.

Or maybe I could do the drawings in a more child like way in crayon. I've got to make people see what really happens. Maybe I can use the same shame they try to put on us against them and turn it around. That would only hurt and humiliate the people who do terrible things...