Is this right?

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You’ll have to think more strategically. Never forget the law of the jungle. If you thought you could be at ease somewhere going about your daily business undisturbed and ended up having one of those encounters, and lost, you were indeed at the wrong place at the wrong time. It doesn’t matter what rights you think you have; if it is convenient for others to trample them and you look weak enough to be trampled with no ill consequence, they will systematically trample you. Will an elephant go out of its way not to stomp a beetle? Of course not—it’s the beetle’s concern to make sure it’s not standing in the elephant’s way. Humans are the same.

like if there's spare seats on the bus , take up two seats or place something next to you. Obviously offer someone the seat if it's needed. This is probably rude behaviour but better that than the alternative.

Thats a NYC subway train, by the way. The most recent model.

I wouldnt sit on that seat. Too tight for two people.

I think the things that happen to me are more coincidental, as in bad luck or Murphy's Law. Sitting in a seat on a bus does not make one look weak, and (not sure if they have double-decker buses in the US) but where I sat I had my back to riders coming up the stairs, so she couldn't really see how weak or stupid I looked from just looking at the back of my head. But the way she chose me to put her kid next to, as if assuming "oh she won't mind some kid sitting right in the seat next to her while I sit elsewhere" made me feel annoyed. It could have happened to anyone on the bus, but yes it had to happen to me. Most people only expect people sitting next them if the bus is full, otherwise sitting next to a stranger when the seat behind is empty is usually considered weird. Most neurotypicals tell me that.

Yeah I knew it was a US train ( not an NYC one though ) but it was the best photo I could find to illustrate my point

Joe. I doubt you look stupid.

What I’m sensing is that you fear people taking advantage of you. Some people, who are looking for such things, sense that fear in you. They are the idiot types who would use the fear they sense to seek to take advantage of you.

The solution would be to read a paper or use headphones on your phone. Pretend you’re oblivious to the world around you.

Look like you’re a respectful person.....but that you really don’t give a flying f**k in general.

omg! Kraftie just said f**k



I don't think I've ever seen you swear/cuss

Heh. Lying down on both seats could work, too, but it’s probably more advisable if you’re male, as it might otherwise make you more vulnerable to sexual assault. I never consider trying to take up a second seat with a bag because it feels like an invitation for a stranger to grab it and then sit down, possibly refusing to give it back to me, or to just sit on top and crush it with their ass.

To me, adjacent seats are meant to be taken only when the passengers came together, being acquainted with each other. When in doubt, don’t sit down.



You said you were at the front, so your pair of seats was the closest to the stairs, wasn’t it? She probably couldn’t be bothered to walk an extra step. You’d have been less likely to be pestered if you’d sat down farther away yourself.

The stronger you are, the lazier you can afford to be. You have to use other people’s laziness to your advantage.

I did have earphones in with music, just gazing out the window and didn't even see the woman get on with her kid until she started forcing the kid into the seat next to me. I looked up and kind of frowned to show that I prefer not to be sat next to. She then stared at me as if to say "oi get up, we're here now". It was one of those fight or flight situations, and unfortunately I chose flight, which I wish I had chose fight, but I knew that if I had retaliated I might have said something I shouldn't, so I decided removing myself from the situation would be best. But then it made me look weak.



Well, not really, as when you come up the stairs there are like 20 pairs of seats to your left and about 6 pairs of seats to your right which is at the front. So she could have easily just sat in the seat behind me, which was even nearer to the stairs than the very front seats. It's just common sense. I'd understand if the kid really wanted to sit there because toddlers aren't so aware of rules of personal space, but to me it looked like the woman was literally forcing the kid there and was going "sit there, sit there please." Really it would have been best for me, the kid and the woman to have just took the seat behind. But no. The woman just had to piss me off. Or she thought I had the patience of a saint and would love some brat sitting next to me. God I wish the bus ran her over when she got off. f*****g c**t, excuse my language.

I know you don’t wish that, really.

I know you’re just irritated at the situation.

Actively wishing that takes energy, which is best saved. But I’m sure I’d be only pleased in that situation if the woman was actually ran over by the bus. I’d sure as hell enjoy hearing her desperate screams, followed shortly by the sweet sounds of her bones being crushed and her blood and gore spilling over the asphalt

Why did WP censor your fishing coat?

Because she looks very pretty in it and they’re jealous, that’s why!

No I didn't mean it literally that I wished the woman to get hit by the bus. I didn't mean killed anyway, just knocked over. I just get wound up sometimes. But, I suppose that I should feel complimented that people aren't afraid to put their kids near me, so something about me must seem trusting, kind and normal, instead of fierce or intimidating or unpredictable (as in weird).

Anyway, the last couple of posts made me smile, so that's good.

Is there some social taboo against people seating their children next to other people on public transportation in your area?

In my area on an otherwise empty bus or train, it would be unusual for a person to come sit down right next to another person all the other seats are vacant. It would be an intrusion on personal space except in situations where it would be inconvenient for the new person to sit elsewhere.

In your situation I would wonder if the other seats were difficult for her to get to with the toddler. Was the bus moving? Was it a safety issue? But she lugging a bunch of things like a stroller that made it difficult for her to get to the other seats? A lot of times when people with small children get on a bus where I am they just sit the kid down in the first empty seat then can get to because the bus drivers don't always wait for the children to be seated before departing. A lot of times the adults will just stand next to the child if there isn't a vacant seat near the child. In most instances I don't think they really expect anyone to give up their seat.

Anyway she did not force you to give up your seat you voluntarily gave up your seat because you didn't like the child next to you. You could have politely asked her to see the child Elsewhere for whatever reason, though she may have responded to this poorly being it is couple of transportation and she has the right to see the child wherever she wishes within socially and legally acceptable boundaries.

You chose to remain next to the child because you felt pressured to give up your seat if I understand correctly. That hints at deeper issues. One, the idea that others should automatically know what your boundaries are and respect them. In some instances it's not unreasonable for us to expect that others know what our boundaries are the we have not articulated them. This is typically the case when those boundaries aligned with the socially and culturally acceptable norms of our society. For example, in my society it's not illegal to touch a random stranger's car, but it's a social taboo and people get quite irrate when their cars are touched by strangers. In my society it's not unreasonable to expect someone to know not to touch a stranger's car. But it might be unreasonable for a stranger to know not to seat a child next to you on public transportation, depending on the circumstances. Sometimes you are going to have to articulate and reinforce your boundaries. You cannot always rely on others to know them or respect them.

The second issue is the concept that when you and another person have an equal right to something that in your mind their rights supercede your own. Sometimes people relinquish their rights to something as a matter of strategy. Standing up for their right to something would be a battle that wasn't worth fighting. Sometimes however, people systematically don't stand up for themselves even when it's appropriate to do so because they don't like confrontation. These people tend to have a lot of anger and bitterness towards themselves for not standing up for themselves, and towards Society for not having psychic abilities to know their boundaries.

In the situation you were in where the lady placed her child next to you, it was the right move not to get into a verbal confrontation with her over it. You would have been the one in the end who looked bad because you were arguing with a lady with a toddler who's only crime was that she sat her toddler next to you on public transportation. However you still could have enforced your boundaries in a socially acceptable way by remaining in your seat.

^^^
Read some of my previous posts in this thread. I have clearly explained that the lady with the baby did have easy access to the seat behind me, and no she didn't have a stroller with her, it was just her and a toddler. Uh, I wish I knew how to post a picture of the plan of a top deck of a bus to get through to you Americans on how UNNECESSARY it was for the lady to force her baby next to me and how EASY it was for her to literally in the seat directly behind me.

I just thought that it would be implied to not sit next to someone when there are available seats with easy access to. It seems to be a thing with mothers to seat their kids right at the front at the top of a double-decker bus just because it's frontview. But people should also be teaching their kids that the 'best' seats aren't always free, and that most people prefer not to be invaded in their space, and that you can't always get what you want. No wonder older children these days are so rude and disrespectful. I very rarely sit at the front at the top of a double-decker, but that particular day I just felt like sitting there, being so those seats were free. Obviously if someone had already been sitting there then I would have automatically found somewhere else to sit.

Maybe I should do an experiment. I'm catching the bus today and it will probably be a double-decker again, and I will have my backpack with me because I'm going to be staying the night at my mum's. If there is a person sitting at the front upstairs, I'm going to dump my backpack on the seat next to the person and either sit in another seat or just place myself in the seat next to the person with my backpack on my lap - particularly if the seat behind is empty. And I can quite confidentally gaurentee you that the person sitting there would look at me like I'm weird. They might even get up, thinking "OK, there's no reason for this girl to overcrowd me like this when there are other seats available, I want my personal space back."

I will post the results.