I want my Androgynous Lifestyle

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I love doing libre samekh. All that reciting lines such as
"Male-female spirits, male-female sires"
makes me feel like a god.

If you are androgynous, you could really get into ceremonial magic. Heck, even if you are not, its really fun to get in touch with your feminine and masculine sides.

This is an interesting thread. Hopefully soon you get to express yourself the way you want to.

I feel similiar to you, in just the opposite way. I'm androgynous but female-bodied. I feel more masculine. People tie a lot of gender expression into sexuality and that bothers me. Androgyny shouldn't "mean" you're gay. It shouldn't matter.

That would be nice.

I am a little androgenous. I feel as if I am spiritually female, but my mind is mostly male, and my body and mind are in conflict as to what I am. I do feel female deep down but I feel like the mostly male mind in me is a very strong force. I feel kind of like a gender chimaera, if that makes sense.

I know it is very hard to be oneself when parents feel a certain way about things and what I want to be is in direct conflict with that. My parents want me to be a practical career person and sucessful and have a house and a family. I want to be daydreamy and aimless and travel from country to country.

They want me to fit into mainstream society. I want to come out of the closet as an aspie and wear aspie tshirts and talk about it to others. It is a difficult path but I think eventually a choice is made as to how much to be the self and how much to please parents who are from another generation altogether.

You could be Bigendered. Feeling Masculine one moment and Feminine in certain situations. I know what you mean.

When you say you want to wear Aspie clothes, I'm not sure what you mean by that. If you mean a certain type of subculture or Androgynous clothes, I know what you mean.

Parents don't understand nonconforming because they are either natually serious people or they had such brutal childhoods, they feel that don't have the ability to express themselves anymore.

It sounds to me like despite your anti-establishment attitude towards gender, you still have no alternative except to mix tired stereotypes. I still don't understand gender, but I did recognize at one time that what I thought of as male and female traits were not. Love and compassion is not a female trait. Insensitivity to physical and emotional pain (or anything, for that matter) is not a male trait. If you're completely detached from the world, you're a cold fish, not A Man. Pride in your appearance is not a feminine trait. If you ignore it, you're a disgusting slob, not A Man. but I guess to the opposite extreme, it is very unusual. and I guess in a small town, it's much less common so people aren't used to it.
But I suppose it is just... homogenization. and mean averages.
I dunno. move somewhere with more diversity when you can. sometimes college offers some of that. maybe your nearby college isn't metropolitan enough. who knows.

I dunno... about 10 years ago I just... gave up on the whole issue. and I was too depressed to do anything anyway. when you can't be bothered to shave, it really destroys any chance of the appearance of femininity. Now my hair is gone, my hands are wrinkled... and I still don't understand the aesthetics of human appearance. How can someone like me ever be pretty? and why?

I find that I speak and behave differently with men than with women (I tend to emulate the different speech patterns of the different genders). This is automatic and caused a bit of trouble at work before - I usually work with several women and one man and he thought I was being deliberately distant with him. I realised after a bit of trouble (that's not worth explaining here) that I was speaking to the women in one way one minute and then speaking to him another way the next minute and he, understandably, thought I was being 'off' with him.

Luckily, once you reach past a certain age, it can be quite hard to tell who's male or female...

to the OP, if your mum won't drive you to meetings, is there any reason why you can't learn to drive yourself?

Horrable news, I'm afriad my parents are catching on.


This morning my step mother was talking about me behind my back to my father, I caught her and I said to both of them "Is there a problem?".


My father explained "Yeah, each time to leave this house, you just leave without speaking to us or talking to us..........."

Which isn't 100% true, I only speak to them when I need too.

"Are you trying to avoid us?"

I said NO, to cover it up.




Here's the thing, I can't relate to my parents.

I'm an Aspie who loves cartoonish humor all the time, and unfortunatly I'm trying to cover up towards my parents that I identify as Androgynous / Bigender and I'm attrached to Masculine Women.

And my parents are 24/7 serious people with no sense of humor, Social norm conforming, no appreciation or acceptance to what they consider weird or unnormal.



I remember that I made the stereotype for my public access show called "Serious People" who punish people who are not normal in their standards.


And even though it's not as extreme in real life, If my parents discover anything relating to my Androgyne, I'm dead-meat!


Like I've mentiond loads of times, my parents are homophobic.
So imagion if they find out about my attraction interest and my perferd gender idenity, they would probably yell at me and call me "QUEER!! !! !! !! !! !! !!" And who knows, maybe not allow me to live on my own.



And aside from that. I have a strong inner child and a strong love for weird and zanny humor which my parents find immature, stupid, and nonscense that does not make sense.



I'm sick of all this family value crap!

It's not that I don't appreciate what my parents do for me.
I've said this loads of times already, My parents are good parents regarding and providing social skills, food, clothing, health, money for education and college, and helping me live on my own.


I just don't believe in all this spiritual love connection with loving parents who you have no relation to personality wise.

I treat my parents as if they were my landlords or some kind of business.
You provide me the services that I need. THANK YOU, now I'll be on my way.

Simple as that.


Look, I'm just tired of being this mature man, pretending to be a normal MAN, being a well mannerd MAN, Being this NORMAL heterosexual society conforming MAN!

I'm freakin' SICK OF IT!

Like I've said before on this message board and this paticular thread, I WANT MY ANDROGYNOUS LIFE!


My plan is to fade away from my parnets somehow.

My plan is to disconnect from my parents and start a new life, this time, they way I WANT IT TO GO! Instead of pretending that I'm someone I'M NOT!! !! !! !! !

I'm sick and tired of pleasing them.



Like I've said before, they are good parents, they allow me to watch cartoons and love my interest for British Humor.


It's the Androgynous thing that I think they would hate me for.


I used to have a friend who was Bisexual who unfortunatly had a crush on me. He was a nice guy after all. But my parents told me that I can't have him over otherwise I WILL BE RAPED MY HIM! Even though by fact that I'm older than him. He's 18 and I'm 20.

But you can odviously see what I mean by homophobic behavor and I do appoligize for rambling on and on but this is a very hard part in my life.

I'm trying to pull the connection plug with my parents and trying to start up my own life.

Any suggestions on how I can get away with disconnecting with my parents without any suspitions are more than welcome

Hopefally I wouldn't have to come home today confessing about my Gender & attraction to them and them yelling agenst me.

Like Annie Lennox? You and a few million other guys. I don't think it's all that unusual.


You said you're 20. I don't see how they could legally stop you. Do you mean they could withdraw support?


A business would get something in return. Food, clothes, schooling, accommodation, they all cost money. If you also count the time and what it would cost if someone had been employed for all the time your parents spent with you and on your behalf, I wouldn't be surprised if that added up to half a million bucks or more. For a conservative estimate of the time, let's say 20 hours per week (a lot more more when you were younger, less as your grew up), that's a little over 1000 hours a year. I think hiring someone competent and committed enough to provide the care parents give would cost at least $20/hour. We ignore extra pay for nights and weekends. Over 20 years, that adds up to a monetary value of $400000 for the time alone. Parents usually find this investment worthwhile for the emotional connection with their child. If that's not possible, it's kind of a raw deal for the parents.


Easy if you live apart from them. Next to impossible otherwise.


Yes, that is some way from enlightened behaviour.


If you are financially independent, and if you are not very concerned about their feelings, do you care whether they suspect? If you absolutely want to disconnect, telling them something they will not tolerate should do the trick. If you do depend on them, I don't think you can disconnect, suspicions or no. Why should your parents support you if you resent them too much to want to give anything in return? Therefore financial independence is what you need.

Like Annie Lennox? You and a few million other guys. I don't think it's all that unusual.


No, in mainstream terms "Women who dress, look, talk and behave like men"



And to make things clear about my relationship with my parents. It's not that I do not care what they do for me. I appreciate that. Allot.
It's just that our personalites are completely different.

So my point is, I'm not very close to them but maybe what I should be doing is, I don't know, talk to them more just to make them happy and less consern. Perhaps.


If there's one thing I'm angry at them about, it's their outlook on how they look at the world Queer and their lack or respect for it.


Basicly I want to get my new life together. I want to date Masculine Women, I want to meet people who also identify as Androgyne / Bigender. And aside from that, I want to meet people who have the same sense of humor as I do.

These three basic things are elements that I feel was lacked from my childhood. I always put my past down and said it was terrable.

I can see how family values are importaint now and I guess I should appreciate my parents a little more. Thanks.

But basicly, I'm consentrating on my indepentant life down the road.



Well, I guess I shouldn't worry too much if my parents are shocked if they do find out. I mean, what can they possibly do like you said. They feel that I'm ready to live on my own. Maybe they wouldn't agree 100% with my attraction desition but you know what.............that's me, not them.


Thanks for the self-confidence. _Eric

I guess you haven't yet introduced them to a girlfriend? Give it a few more years, and if you present them with a masculine looking woman, with any luck they'll be so relieved that your partner is a woman, they'll welcome her. If a bit of a wait is not enough, you could hint at how much you miss your bisexual friend. Give them a worse alternative to consider to make them appreciate a masculine looking woman.


My parents did a great job, and I wish I could give them more in return than is possible. It's easy for me to understand that part of your situation. I hope you find a better way than I did, which was to drift away, even though they never tried to constrain me. I know about the raw deal for parents because that's what I gave mine. Not intentionally, but it happened.

You mentioned that you like British comedy. Do you know of Eddie Izzard? Very funny, and though not androgyne, he is a transvestite. Works it into his routines occasionally. So depending on where you live, you can be open. And you might enjoy McMaster-Bujold's books about Miles Vorkosigan. She occasionally plays around with gender roles.

Ericc, from the stories I have read on here, yours is the one I relate to the best.

I'm a woman who has always been on the masculine side, simply for the fact that this is how I feel comfortable. Since early school days, the other girls would tease me about it and tell me to go with the boys because I was one of them. That would affect me alot when I was younger, for I wanted to be more feminine, but not because that's how I felt, but because I wanted to have friends and well, to be accepted by my parents for who I am, not for the facade I put up to them. My relationship with my dad is close to being non-existant, but my mom is great, and I'm her only child, and I know that being the way I am dissapoints her, and that just kills me. And she doesn't even know a quarter of it!

Something else that you mentioned, Ericc. that I related to was that post where you said you want a protector. I have never wanted to be protected, I'm always the one people come for protection, and I more than gladly provide it to those that I love.

I feel attraction towards delicate, femine men who are sensitive and sweet and that have a sense of humour. My sense of humour is variates depending on my mood. Sometimes I'm all in for cute and cartoonish and sometimes I'm sarcastic, ironic and witty.

Ericc, I think we would get along pretty well, and that there's many things we could talk about in-depth. If you want to get to know me better, PM

Hi there Taw, I just sent you a PM. Thanks for introducing yourself to me, you sound like a cool person.




So anyways, I just wanted to give an update.

I'm starting to feel more annoyed by my parents and I thnk they are starting to notice too.

Before when I first moved in with my father. I was closer to my Step Mother than my father. Now 7 years later, I'm becoming less and less closer to her. But not any closer to my dad. I'm not close to any of them. It's not her or his fault. They can't help it if they are in personality wise duel, boring, serious society norm obeying conformists with no sense of humor.

I just can't relate to them.


1. They don't have a sense of humor. Humor conforts me and allows me to be open. I just shut up when I'm near them and only answer to them if they ask me a question. I know that they know that I've changed but they are introverted themselves. I think they are starting to realise that I'm not close to them. If they are hurt by this, I can see how the truth hurts even though it's not ment to be. It's just how it is.

2. Socially Politcally I disagree with them on their conforming to what is considered NORMAL towards them. I identify as Androgyne / Bigender and I'm attracted to Women who identify as Masculine, Butch, Androgyne, etc. Which in their upbringing is simply believed or deserved to be frowned upon even though Politically should NOT be so.


I'm just different from them. I love zany, craziness in a humorious fashion. They dislike it. I love Tomboys, they might consider it NOT NORMAL and besides, they are homophobic but why should I care about what they think.

Even though my parents are catching on that I might be angry with them or trying to avoid them.
Things Do NOT need to be discussed this time,
That's just the nature of different thinkers.
I got 6 more months until I'm out of here. And when I'm no longer in the supervision of my parents, I'll be free enough to start my Androgyne Lifestyle and Humor / Art based Culture.

Ericc, and anyone else that relates to this issue, please feel free to PM me. I'm a female-to-male transgender person. I have actually been taking testosterone for a little over a year now, but when I first came out, I came out as "intergender" or "genderqueer." I never identified as a lesbian -- I'm attracted to men. I realize that in a lot of ways my situation is actually conforming to society's views of gender, but I was seen as androgynous for a long time. My AIM screenname and MySpace link are in my profile so feel free to use either of those to contact me as well, if you wish.

I think it is a generational thing. People of my parent's generation had revolutions in the 60s and there was the civil rights movement. When my father was 25 it was inconceivable that a white man marry a non-white woman. He did that and his parents didnt speak to him for 10 years. Eventually they got over it.

Now they are the parents of adult children and the world is changing too fast for them. Gender, sexuality and neurology are the new issues of today our parents are facing.