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Sweetleaf
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15 Jan 2012, 12:36 pm

Tequila wrote:
Kelspook wrote:
Yes, I believe Sweetleaf really would probably be best off cutting out the alcohol and the cannabis. Not only that, but alcohol can and does badly mess up people on medication anyway whether through all the various reactions but by far the most common one is that it makes depression worse (as it did with me). Alcohol is an absolutely fantastic substance and I believe that it is far too much maligned in our society... but it needs to be had at the right time mentally. Alcohol misuse isn't good. I drank when I was on medication before (and still do) and it hasn't given me any really bad after-effects but it can do if you're on a very heavy dose. Mainly it's dangerous because you don't know how it'll interact with other things you're taking. Different things work for different people in different ways.

Getting her medication sorted out will also help too.

Like I have been saying, Sweetleaf is in a depressive cycle where her thoughts - and thus her view of the world - are badly skewed. I'm not saying this like I don't have experience (and the one thing that grates me a bit is that she seems to think that only her experience of depression is the only one that counts!) - I have been depressed several times myself and my thoughts are and were messed-up at the time. I recovered though and got better, although I still do need to take medication during the winter months mainly.

Kelspook wrote:
Go for walks outside when you think you can handle it, or if you're finding you have too much nervous energy.


Only go places you can feel safe in - otherwise that will make you worse with all the worry and fear. If you live in a dodgy area, try travelling to somewhere you feel safer.


First of Alcohol is far more damaging than cannabis and actually destroyes brain tissue after a while so I would rather cut out the alcohol and keep the cannabis. Not to mention my drinking would be fine if I didn't decide to be stupid and see if it would work as well as cannabis to decrease symptoms even though I already knew from past experiance what that would turn into. But I can manage to cut back and keep from going back to what i did my first year of college and get drunk every night so I did not have to feel lonely, depressed and downright horrible.

As for medication anti-anxiety, MMJ licence or nothing because I'm not getting on SSRIs ever again.

Also where in the hell did you get the idea I think my experiance with depression is the only one? can you please point out anywhere I said that because I'm pretty lost on that one. Just to clear it up for everyone reading I certainly do NOT think my experiance with depression is the only one that counts.......just the only one that specifically effects me and my life. I am well aware others struggle with depression and that some have gotten better, some are in the process and some have probably gotten burnt out sorta like me. So I don't particularly appreciate the assumption there.

Also though just to be very honest about something, If I were to cut the cannabis out I would probably just end up getting into a worse drug in an attempt to kill the pain, if the cannabis already does it then might as well stick with that as its nearly impossible to die from smoking cannabis.


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Kelspook
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15 Jan 2012, 1:09 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
First of Alcohol is far more damaging than cannabis and actually destroyes brain tissue after a while so I would rather cut out the alcohol and keep the cannabis. Not to mention my drinking would be fine if I didn't decide to be stupid and see if it would work as well as cannabis to decrease symptoms even though I already knew from past experiance what that would turn into. But I can manage to cut back and keep from going back to what i did my first year of college and get drunk every night so I did not have to feel lonely, depressed and downright horrible.


It's good that you recognise that the alcohol isn't helpful :). At the end of the day what you do is entirely up to you, I just wanted to say that cannabis can actually cause anxiety and paranoia, so while some of the effects may well feel helpful, it's possible that the cannabis is itself contributing to the anxiety you say you experience. It goes back to not trying to do it all at once. Your observation that maybe not buying the alcohol at all would help is bang on. If it isn't there, you can't be tempted. Why not start with cutting out the alcohol, then work on cutting back on the cannabis? Another point to note is that cannabis withdrawal can also cause anxiety. That's why I said you need to get help. Most people can't do this stuff on thier own, they need support.


Sweetleaf wrote:
As for medication anti-anxiety, MMJ licence or nothing because I'm not getting on SSRIs ever again.


There are other treatment options, and many folks need a combination of things before they see improvement. Everybody is different, what works for one, may not work for another.

Sweetleaf wrote:
Also though just to be very honest about something, If I were to cut the cannabis out I would probably just end up getting into a worse drug in an attempt to kill the pain, if the cannabis already does it then might as well stick with that as its nearly impossible to die from smoking cannabis.


That's why you need to see your doctor, or some other form of support. Like I said, most people simply can't do this stuff on thier own. You can die from cannabis use though, it can cause cancer. Far better to get yourself onto a regimen that helps the areas that need the help. There's also always a danger in taking something obtained illegally. You never know what else is in there.

Finally, apologies if you felt as though you were being talked about rather than to. It morphed into a discussion on some other issues between myself and Tequila, and it certainly wasn't my intention to offend.



Sweetleaf
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15 Jan 2012, 1:27 pm

Kelspook wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
First of Alcohol is far more damaging than cannabis and actually destroyes brain tissue after a while so I would rather cut out the alcohol and keep the cannabis. Not to mention my drinking would be fine if I didn't decide to be stupid and see if it would work as well as cannabis to decrease symptoms even though I already knew from past experiance what that would turn into. But I can manage to cut back and keep from going back to what i did my first year of college and get drunk every night so I did not have to feel lonely, depressed and downright horrible.


It's good that you recognise that the alcohol isn't helpful :). At the end of the day what you do is entirely up to you, I just wanted to say that cannabis can actually cause anxiety and paranoia, so while some of the effects may well feel helpful, it's possible that the cannabis is itself contributing to the anxiety you say you experience. It goes back to not trying to do it all at once. Your observation that maybe not buying the alcohol at all would help is bang on. If it isn't there, you can't be tempted. Why not start with cutting out the alcohol, then work on cutting back on the cannabis? Another point to note is that cannabis withdrawal can also cause anxiety. That's why I said you need to get help. Most people can't do this stuff on thier own, they need support.

See thing is the anxiety was worse before I even knew what cannabis was, and worse if I go a period of time without it.....I still get anxious but its more managable with the cannabis same with the PTSD and depression symptoms. As for paranoia that seems to happen with or without anything it is a bit less horrifying to deal with, with the cannabis. I guess I figure I would be noticing some things getting worse without any other explination if I was being negatively effected by cannabis. But I feel the worsening of anyting can be accounted for by other factors. And if I decide cutting down on cannabis is a good idea for me at any point then I am sure I will but this is not that point.


Sweetleaf wrote:
As for medication anti-anxiety, MMJ licence or nothing because I'm not getting on SSRIs ever again.


There are other treatment options, and many folks need a combination of things before they see improvement. Everybody is different, what works for one, may not work for another.

Well i was talking specifically about meds.......and my unwillingness to try any more SSRIs, the reason I mentioned anti-anxiety meds though was because it would be nice to have something for emergencies in which I am out in public or whatever and start getting too anxious and can feel either an anxiety attack or some sort of PTSD issue coming on that would calm me down. As that seems to be a major problem at times.

Sweetleaf wrote:
Also though just to be very honest about something, If I were to cut the cannabis out I would probably just end up getting into a worse drug in an attempt to kill the pain, if the cannabis already does it then might as well stick with that as its nearly impossible to die from smoking cannabis.


That's why you need to see your doctor, or some other form of support. Like I said, most people simply can't do this stuff on thier own. You can die from cannabis use though, it can cause cancer. Far better to get yourself onto a regimen that helps the areas that need the help. There's also always a danger in taking something obtained illegally. You never know what else is in there.

Finally, apologies if you felt as though you were being talked about rather than to. It morphed into a discussion on some other issues between myself and Tequila, and it certainly wasn't my intention to offend.


Well thing is I do not want to quit using cannabis...so I do not want people to support me in not using cannabis because that's not what I want to do. Also Cannabis does not cause cancer........not only is there a study that found people who smoke cannabis and ciggerettes are less likely to get cancer then people who just smoke ciggerettes but even more recently they found it does not even do as much other lung damage as they thought either. The cannabanoids actually attack the carcinogens decreasing that cancer risk. Also though even if the smoke did cause cancer that's the smoke not the cannabis as there are other ways of ingesting it.


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Kelspook
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15 Jan 2012, 4:09 pm

In all honesty I don't really want to get into a debate about weed, you're clearly a believer in the "cannabis is harmless" folks- most of thier arguments have zero hard science backing them up. If it works for you, and you don't want to give it up, don't. It's your life to do with what you wish at the end of the day.

I just wanted to try and help with some info and some options. Up to you what, if anything, you take from it.

Just to add, as text is so easy to take the wrong way, that I'm not judging or attacking you, just voicing my opinion on the issues you were talking about.



marshall
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15 Jan 2012, 7:31 pm

Kelspook wrote:
In all honesty I don't really want to get into a debate about weed, you're clearly a believer in the "cannabis is harmless" folks- most of thier arguments have zero hard science backing them up. If it works for you, and you don't want to give it up, don't. It's your life to do with what you wish at the end of the day.

I just wanted to try and help with some info and some options. Up to you what, if anything, you take from it.

Just to add, as text is so easy to take the wrong way, that I'm not judging or attacking you, just voicing my opinion on the issues you were talking about.

I'd say if someone needs a CNS depressant to deal with anxiety, overall cannabis is less harmful than prescription CNS anti-anxiety medications. Benzos are also dirty in that they metabolize differently in different people and can cause increased anxiety and paranoia in certain people. Benzos are also potentially addictive and the withdrawal symptoms are extremely nasty, such as seizures and muscular convulsions which can in some cases result in death. Taking any psychoactive drug requires a cost-benefit analysis.



Tequila
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15 Jan 2012, 11:35 pm

Kelspook wrote:
Okay, that point I certainly do agree on. The law abiding people who enjoy the odd drink shouldn't be persecuted by the state for the actions of a few antisocial chavs. That wasn't what I was getting at though, I meant in the specific case of people with depression.


I was mainly voicing this concern - perhaps in a bit of a dickish way (my apologies, by the way) - because medical professionals (or their organisations) - bureaucrats, really - are generally at the forefront of this kind of authoritarianism regarding drink. I think we more or less agree on this point.

I also think soft drugs should be legalised also.

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But if someone is unhappy with thier life, advice on how to improve it does no harm if it's freely available. Consent by the individual should always be sought, unless they are a danger to themselves or others.


I think we're in general agreement here then. Though obviously it depends how far the 'danger to themselves' lattitude is drawn. A lot of people would hold that depressed people should have no voice at all, really.

Quote:
Every profession has its numpties, sadly.


I, in common with a lot of people, seem to have met an awful lot of them!

Quote:
You just need to keep trying until you find one who can actually help you.


It's more than a bit insulting when they tell you that you don't actually have any problems, even though you've just spoken to them for all of 20 minutes.

If it was any other profession, people would simply write them off as a bad lot.

Quote:
I wasn't suggesting otherwise, if someone who has anxiety or depression chooses to carry on drinking or taking other substances, then that is indeed thier choice. I merely meant that it almost always makes those conditions worse.


It did in my case - I found that giving up the alcohol did help to lesson my depressive states more than a little.

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At least we agree on something eh? :)


We agree on most things I think. :)



Sweetleaf
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16 Jan 2012, 1:00 am

Kelspook wrote:
In all honesty I don't really want to get into a debate about weed, you're clearly a believer in the "cannabis is harmless" folks- most of thier arguments have zero hard science backing them up. If it works for you, and you don't want to give it up, don't. It's your life to do with what you wish at the end of the day.

I just wanted to try and help with some info and some options. Up to you what, if anything, you take from it.

Just to add, as text is so easy to take the wrong way, that I'm not judging or attacking you, just voicing my opinion on the issues you were talking about.


I would certainly not say its harmless, but it seems the benefits outweigh the negatives.


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