Verbal Communications Differences and Difficulties Sticky

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i might get a MyTobii system since i am slowly losing vocal communication due to disability

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When in doubt, ask an autistic. Chances are, they're obsessed with what you need to know.

Autism Speaks will NEVER speak for me

CLASSIC AUTISM

Hi, everyone. Trying to get the hang of doing this...actually posting, I mean. Hopefully, this makes it to The Haven where there's a 'thread'(?) going on about mutism. If my post attempt is successful, then I want my first words to be of thanks. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! This subject in particular and WrongPlanet in general has become the most important 'resource' in my life as I try navigating through the recent realization that I have Asperger's. I've been reading the forum for a few weeks now and I'm so grateful to have this connection...so many 'I-recognize-thats' and 'oh-that's-a-great-idea'. I'm a fan of everyone who's posted here. Thank you!

YaYa

Hi, YaYa. How old are you? Are you a guy or a girl? What struggles do you have with being verbal?

Hi, SuperTrouper and all.
In answer: I'm female, soon-to-be 40, and have a number of verbal difficulties. I seem to also be having difficulties with this site...I've sent several e-mail contacts asking for help but haven't gotten a response yet. I know my profile isn't completed properly, I'm not sure why my first post appeared with the words 'Emu Egg', and I don't know why I appear as an 'Anon' when I'm in the chat room. I wonder how to get a 'signature' onto my posts and I'm still trying to figure out what 'Avatars' have to do with anything. But! I'm still glad to be here. Back to the non-verbal thing...My realization of having Asperger's was very recent and, up til then, I just thought I was 'reserved' and that part of that 'reserved' behavior was based on being more intelligent than other people. People who seemed unable to 'process' and arrive at conclusions in their heads. Instead, having to speechify their processing. I've been pretty surprised during the times I found out the 'verbals' thought I was who was less intelligent.

YaYa

When I was a teenager, I too thought that my difference were because I was more intelligent than my peers and that's what made me stand out. Now, I realize that people are actually surprised that I'm intelligent, i.e., "You went to college? You can drive?" said with surprise. Because I struggle so much with communication, I come across as being unintelligent. That's part of why I like typing so much... I'm free to say whatever I want without the limitations of my autism.

When I was a teenager, I too thought that my difference were because I was more intelligent than my peers and that's what made me stand out. Now, I realize that people are actually surprised that I'm intelligent, i.e., "You went to college? You can drive?" said with surprise. Because I struggle so much with communication, I come across as being unintelligent. That's part of why I like typing so much... I'm free to say whatever I want without the limitations of my autism.

SuperTrouper: It so much seems to be almost everybody's experience. Like there's such a huge universe in every one person but we're mostly allowed only one method to communicate it all...verbally! But, I'm all for reminding others there are so many other ways - and it doesn't have to be perceived as 'reinventing the wheel'. Humans have long had 'alternative' pathways when it comes to conveying messages (maybe when it comes to a lot of things, actually). After all, isn't that what that gruesome phrase 'there's more than one way to skin a cat' is about? ok. that was ick. sawry. Anyway...if the 'chatters' would look around in different ways, they'd see that I've been 'talking' all along - and being pretty intelligent about things, too.

YaYa

So I started at my new job 2 weeks ago and started off talking a fair amount. And now, as I settle into a schedule at work, and as the noises (aka, dogs barking constantly) grate on me more and more, I'm losing my words faster and faster. I'm forcing myself to speak because it's expected and I want to seem "normal." The problem is that I work with high-school dropouts who wouldn't know autism if it smacked them upside the head. I can't explain that I'm autistic and that's why I act the way I do, I just have to force normalcy. Advice, anyone?

Hi again, SuperTrouper.
Many times, I think answers to a query like you just posted are situation-specific. I found, for me, that I can't come up with just 1 (or even a few) response(s) that can serve as a 'one-size-fits-all'. 'Come out' or not, disclose only to management or inform everybody, make a group announcement or create one-on-one's, play it by ear...Trying to make those decisions can really put me in a sweat. I think there MUST be times it may be considered 'appropriate' to conclude that an Aspie just isn't ever goinna to fit/flex to a certain job. I think there MUST be times to conclude that one is trying 'too hard' and will not live long enough to generate more satisfactory results by staying in that job. How many others feel like this, too?

But maybe more specifics about SuperTrouper's job could help us 'troubleshoot'...maybe. I can definitely relate to being agitated by barking dogs, but am not sure what job would cold-heartedly 'captivate' employees into a situation of being forced to endure such noise. My current job has lots of noise, too, but that noise happens to be work-related. I don't know how I would endure being exposed to non-work-related sounds...Are earplugs (or even just one plug for the 'lesser' ear) an option?

'Losing words' is something I've experienced, too (great way to put it). Before I realized my Asperger's, I was stuck in a blaming mode. I used to figure out (even if just to keep it to myself) how to make others accountable for the communication breakdown. I've been working towards a different approach, lately, and making sure that my processing of a situation doesn't include (at least, initially) any decisions regarding blaming - whether it's them or myself, my work environment is too fast-paced for anything other than solving the immediate work-related problem (social analyzing for later ). In my current job, I've made the decision to disclose to management and have very assertively involved Human Resources. Things are still far from ideal and I've struggled a lot with (false) pride issues, but I think it would be accurate to say progress has been made. They no longer try to put me on the drive-thru as order-taker, they've become willing to accept notes at specific times instead of coercing speech from me, and care is taken & monitoring occurs whenever I'm paired with an uninformed co-worker for further training.

Some of this seems to boil down to personal preference but more of it doesn't. I've had to speak when I so didn't want to , 'break-in' HR members to 'indulge' me by e-mail communication rather than by telephone, and many other little and not-so-little forays out of my comfort zone to get even mundane issues resolved. It's a huge investment! And, though others take it much too lightly, I feel that all the effort is one of the prime motivators behind the questions 'Is this (going to be) worth it' and 'Am I at the right place to justify making this investment'.

Just a few thoughts. Thanks.

YaYa

YaYa, are you diagnosed?

My job is working at an animal shelter, so the barking dogs (or darking bogs, as it always comes out) are part of work. I have to walk them, clean their cages, etc. No one wears earplugs and I'd feel like a sissy if I did. Maybe I'll just have to get over being a sissy and put them in.

I mentioned that my cat was going to be a service cat the other day, and no one asked what for. I was hoping someone would say, "for what?" and then I could explain about the autism. No such luck. I struck out.

Am I diagnosed?...I am now. And doing something I never thought I would: working with a psychotherapist. Yikes!

SuperTrouper, could I just say that I've seen that attitude (that coworkers imply others taking safety measures as being 'sissies') quite often - and still point out that necessity should always take precedence over vanity? It's a roughshod way to put it, I know, but part of respecting one's self (even LOVING one's self) occasionally means dismissing (in some way or another) 'peers' making fun of you.

I've been in a few shelter-related kennels. I've also been/worked in paper mills, warehouses, and in close proximity to airports. Kennels absolutely can/do compare to noise hazards presented in mills, warehouses, et al. - especially in the very common kennel building designs that create the terrible echo-ing off of bare brick/concrete constructions. Anybody who dismisses the idea of using earplugs in these places is committing an act of idiocy - and demanding that others damage a very needed sense (hearing) to fulfill their ideas of what's 'cool'.

I've had the experience of an eardrum 'busting' a few decades ago. I can tell you firsthand AND from witnessing others' experiences, neglecting any procedures proven to safeguard humans is irresponsible and can often prove to be quite painful - way more painful than a few people making fun of your 'sissiness'. Please, take care of yourself first and those who would mock you, second.

It's a fact of our lives that, as humans, we have the machines/technology to make noises beyond humans' capability of enduring. Kennel-contained dogs are not a natural occurrence. Humans have 'designed' these enclosed spaces for noise-making animals, thus creating a situation for humans - if left unguarded/unprotected- who will experience long-term damage (that may not become apparent in the short-term -- much like smoking). Recognizing the danger to your ears and making attempts to prevent the danger is the act of a rational human. It doesn't even have to be about having Asperger's. Many of those who've suffered partial-to-full hearing loss didn't/don't have Asperger's.

BTW, the use/or not of earplugs and the mention of your service cat (love that idea!) don't have to be used for 'devices' to transition a conversation into an autism disclosure, my friend...don't wanna see you keep getting disappointed. If you wanna tell 'em, then I'd think it's a big enough/important enough topic to have a conversation just for that purpose.

One last suggestion for now, SuperTrouper: get an audiogram - a hearing test and its results, while your hearing is still little-impacted. If you're at this job (or a similar job) for a good length of time, you could get another testing and check out the results. This would be an appropriate reliance on 'numbers' - a clarifying of perception that may skew the accuracy of any conclusions (i.e. it just SEEMS like it's gotten louder here...). These results can help you determine if changes are needed, such as using earplugs (if one hadn't been in the past) or using a different style of plug (most common are cotton balls for minimal noise-decrease, flexible 'foam' plugs that will conform to the shape of the ear canal** and will reduce-to-eliminate many noises, 'bullet'-shaped hard plugs that could leave one's ears/canals feeling sore after a few hours, and silicon-based materials that aren't so much inserted into the canal as much as used to simply 'wall off' the ear at the point of 'entry').

** The proper insertion method for the conforming style involves reaching across the head with the hand opposite of the ear currently being plugged, pulling up the top of the ear, carefully inserting (not too far) the taper-rolled plug into the ear with the same-side hand, and releasing the ear's top while the foam plug 'poofs' back out within the ear.

Earplugs can be found at uniform-supplying shops, home-improvement stores, stores that supply swimmers' needs/apparel, and in many of the 'pharmacy' areas of retail shops. I got my last plugs at Target and have really been appreciating them as they're smaller than those bought at industrial-oriented places. I use 'em right now for the times including conversation with a half-deaf family member. I can hardly tolerate the necessarily loud speech coming from others speaking to him and I loathe the loudness of his almost-constant tv viewing. The earplugs help tremendously.

Take Care!

YaYa

They provide the foam kind of earplugs and I try to wear those, btu they don't get in my ears right no matter what I do, so I get frustrated and take them out. I have noise-cancelling headphones (for the purposes of wearing WITH earplugs and thus being able to watch fireworks, finally!), but those seem a little extreme for the dogs. If I'm the only one in the room, nobdoy barks, but when someone else comes in or when we're walking dogs, they all start barking.

I think I've found the volume solution in that the only time I'm even with the dogs is to walk them, and I can handle the 5 minutes or less of barking, as long as I hyperfocus on what I have to do.

I've realized that I can work and play the social game 2 days, or 12 hours, a week. 3 days starts to be really hard work. I'm not saying that I can "pass for normal" for that long... I'm severe enough that passing for normal isn't an option. But I start to get seemingly rude in that I completely ignore people talking to me.

Yeah, SuperTrouper...I'm with ya about the headphones. It's hard enough to bluff through situations while wearing earplugs but it just seems to be 'overkill' trying to wear earphones... Plus, I found that they seemed to make me feel warmer - definitely not wanted in already-hot environments. I wonder what's happening exactly when you're trying to insert earplugs, what may be going wrong. Are you doing a pinching-roll of the end before insertion? Are they too large for the ear canals? Sure hope you get it worked out... Ignoring the noise is still creating a hazard on a BIOLOGICAL level, not just on a 'mental' level from Asperger sensitivity. Good luck with it.
I had a question for everybody...SuperTrouper mentioned some limits re how long the 'social game' can be played. Is this an absolute limit (1 job, x number of times per week, x hours per day, etc.) or do some of y'all feel it possible to work for a few hours at one site then 'zero out' and start again for another few hours at another worksite with a different set of people? What is everyone's tolerance for 'socializing'/speech in any given day? How much of your tolerance for verbalizing is based on others' tolerance for accommodating your style of verbalization?
Thx!
YaYa

It's different for every person, for sure.

Personally, I can do 4, maybe 5 hours out in the community before I start ignoring people who talk to me and falling into sensory world and being unable to communicate. It's not an unhappy place to be, I just act "more autistic."

I am not mute but I stumbled upon this thread. I find you all inspiring, and [I don't think] interesting [is the right word]. You are changing my perceptions of what it means to be mute. I have been dealing with my own negative stereotypes against myself. (ADHD = lazy and poor parenting. Autists don't really have thoughts of their own. Simply because of how society treats people of a different brain-wiring. And I was raised NT; diagnosed a year ago or so.) Somehow this changes things.

Thank you.

I want to post something, but it seems like no one reads this thread and it would therefore be pointless. Why does no one read this?