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Amber-Miasma
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31 May 2010, 11:33 am

MathGirl wrote:
intellect does not have to be directed towards material pursuits, such as the creation of new technology and urban expansion.
i think people are very limited when it comes to social understanding and acceptance, and are only beginning to be more accepting of minorities.
being an intelligent person is not about science, but about obeying a simple rule of doing unto others as they would do unto you. it's about suppressing your own selfish desires and living for others as opposed to yourself. i think people are becoming more isolated than ever, especially with the gadgets that absorb all of their attention. they need to try to learn about what people beyond their own social scope are like, to explore all sides to humanity, and to do that not through media, but through real-life experiences. thanks to the gadgets, we live in a simulation of reality, which is more accessible but promotes stereotyping and thus a false image of reality.

the development of science and technology is driven by capitalism, and is therefore also very self-centered. it's not about people expressing themselves for mutual benefit, it's about economy and power. people create these things because they know that they will make millions off of it, which in turn gives them the feeling of security and power.

sex is restricting. people tend to bond with those who are from the same socioeconomic background as them. sexual attraction is primarily based on appearance. at the moment that a person is experiencing sexual feelings for somebody, they are not thinking about what the other person might be feeling or thinking, about the past experiences they might have lived through, or about their intellectual identity. they are only thinking about getting pleasure for themselves.


Agreed, all except your last paragraph and I'll explain why in a short while. Also I believe you may have misunderstood me, or I used the wrong wording, when I mentioned intelligence - you see I attribute wisdom and compassion with the traits you described (Doing unto others as you would do unto yourself, selflessness, independence) and intelligence as the consumption and retention of information (information created in this day and age can only be used in this social climate thus being generally useless for and life path other than the one fed to you). Learning to adapt to, use and thrive off of and with the resources provided naturally is all the information we really need.

As for your final paragraph all the negatives you attributed to sex have been created through our society, basically what I'm saying is, they're false. No you are right they're not experiencing what the other person is experiencing or has experienced for two reasons - It's not necessary to carry the act through (and base convenience is a byproduct of our soulless society, it's not convenient to have to link with our partners emotions) and because we have lost touch with the ability to do so, I firmly believe we are all from the same source so we are all be able connect in one way or another.

One final point, what you said "living for others as opposed to yourself" slightly disturbs me. I have met a few people with a similar outlook, wonderful people really but they all share a common trait and that is a self destructive urge to appease all others and they ALWAYS leave themselves out, please tell me this isn't a route you're taking? It causes far more harm than it does good. I fully understand your want to help others, it's admirable, but if you don't take care of yourself then you're impeding your ability to help others. I feel it's all about an even balance, don't neglect others but don't neglect yourself either as it impedes your development.



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31 May 2010, 3:20 pm

Amber-Miasma wrote:
Agreed, all except your last paragraph and I'll explain why in a short while. Also I believe you may have misunderstood me, or I used the wrong wording, when I mentioned intelligence - you see I attribute wisdom and compassion with the traits you described (Doing unto others as you would do unto yourself, selflessness, independence) and intelligence as the consumption and retention of information (information created in this day and age can only be used in this social climate thus being generally useless for and life path other than the one fed to you). Learning to adapt to, use and thrive off of and with the resources provided naturally is all the information we really need.
No, I haven't misunderstood you. I'm saying that people should spend time learning things about other people and thus improving the way they approach their decision making. Wisdom and compassion are character traits that someone could theoretically possess, but due to being misinformed and/or being hesitant to find out what is best for them rather than following the normative structures and the ideologies that we are spoonfed with, these character traits may be suppressed or channeled in wrong directions. It's a different application of intelligence. Intelligence is not necessarily scientific.
I don't think you necessarily have to stick to the path that is fed to you. You can choose to go with the flow because it's easier, but you may also choose to go beyond it, learn about things that are external to your path, and pursue it with consideration and criticism. Rules are not absolute.

Quote:
As for your final paragraph all the negatives you attributed to sex have been created through our society, basically what I'm saying is, they're false. No you are right they're not experiencing what the other person is experiencing or has experienced for two reasons - It's not necessary to carry the act through (and base convenience is a byproduct of our soulless society, it's not convenient to have to link with our partners emotions) and because we have lost touch with the ability to do so, I firmly believe we are all from the same source so we are all be able connect in one way or another.

One final point, what you said "living for others as opposed to yourself" slightly disturbs me. I have met a few people with a similar outlook, wonderful people really but they all share a common trait and that is a self destructive urge to appease all others and they ALWAYS leave themselves out, please tell me this isn't a route you're taking? It causes far more harm than it does good. I fully understand your want to help others, it's admirable, but if you don't take care of yourself then you're impeding your ability to help others. I feel it's all about an even balance, don't neglect others but don't neglect yourself either as it impedes your development.
I have my base beliefs, and no, I don't just agree with everyone in order to please. Seeking praise is also a selfish purpose, since that means that your motivation is praise as opposed to happiness in others. I evaluate what people say critically and make my own conclusions. However, my goal is to make people think outside the box (I don't know how else I could say this). I ask people leading questions to figure out whether they are blindly following the set of values promoted by the society or whether they have considered all of the sides to the issue which has led them to their own conclusions. My goal is to at least make people understand themselves better, to help them open up to new knowledge. I guess this can basically be considered to be Socratic dialogue. There's one benefit that I gain from this for myself, which is expanding my knowledge about myself and others. That is something that gives me pleasure, while at the same time, being beneficial to others. I have never been happier doing anything else.


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31 May 2010, 3:41 pm

I've also gone through a spell of depression, over the past week. I was melting down at the clubhouse, and I haven't been eating much. A woman who's 2 years older than me, but very immature, said that she'd never do anything to hurt me. Well, she told me not to phone anymore, two weeks ago, she showed up at my place and wanted to go out with my two best friend and I, a week ago. She called me a lair, and hung up on me, last Wednesday, just because I joked around about one of the male staff at the club having a crush on her. All that has thrown me in, for a loop.


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Amber-Miasma
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31 May 2010, 3:43 pm

MathGirl wrote:
Amber-Miasma wrote:
Agreed, all except your last paragraph and I'll explain why in a short while. Also I believe you may have misunderstood me, or I used the wrong wording, when I mentioned intelligence - you see I attribute wisdom and compassion with the traits you described (Doing unto others as you would do unto yourself, selflessness, independence) and intelligence as the consumption and retention of information (information created in this day and age can only be used in this social climate thus being generally useless for and life path other than the one fed to you). Learning to adapt to, use and thrive off of and with the resources provided naturally is all the information we really need.
No, I haven't misunderstood you. I'm saying that people should spend time learning things about other people and thus improving the way they approach their decision making. Wisdom and compassion are character traits that someone could theoretically possess, but due to being misinformed and/or being hesitant to find out what is best for them rather than following the normative structures and the ideologies that we are spoonfed with, these character traits may be suppressed or channeled in wrong directions. It's a different application of intelligence. Intelligence is not necessarily scientific.
I don't think you necessarily have to stick to the path that is fed to you. You can choose to go with the flow because it's easier, but you may also choose to go beyond it, learn about things that are external to your path, and pursue it with consideration and criticism. Rules are not absolute.

Quote:
As for your final paragraph all the negatives you attributed to sex have been created through our society, basically what I'm saying is, they're false. No you are right they're not experiencing what the other person is experiencing or has experienced for two reasons - It's not necessary to carry the act through (and base convenience is a byproduct of our soulless society, it's not convenient to have to link with our partners emotions) and because we have lost touch with the ability to do so, I firmly believe we are all from the same source so we are all be able connect in one way or another.

One final point, what you said "living for others as opposed to yourself" slightly disturbs me. I have met a few people with a similar outlook, wonderful people really but they all share a common trait and that is a self destructive urge to appease all others and they ALWAYS leave themselves out, please tell me this isn't a route you're taking? It causes far more harm than it does good. I fully understand your want to help others, it's admirable, but if you don't take care of yourself then you're impeding your ability to help others. I feel it's all about an even balance, don't neglect others but don't neglect yourself either as it impedes your development.
I have my base beliefs, and no, I don't just agree with everyone in order to please. Seeking praise is also a selfish purpose, since that means that your motivation is praise as opposed to happiness in others. I evaluate what people say critically and make my own conclusions. However, my goal is to make people think outside the box (I don't know how else I could say this). I ask people leading questions to figure out whether they are blindly following the set of values promoted by the society or whether they have considered all of the sides to the issue which has led them to their own conclusions. My goal is to at least make people understand themselves better, to help them open up to new knowledge. There's one benefit that I gain from this for myself, which is expanding my knowledge about myself and others. That is something that gives me pleasure, while at the same time, being beneficial to others. I have never been happier doing anything else.


I think everyone has the ability to feel compassion but we're not all compassionate about the same things, for example you seem compassionate about other people where as other people might be compassionate about their country or their belongings or their vegetable garden - I wouldn't necessarily say that their being compassionate about things you disagree with makes them "wrong" they simply have different priorities. Excuse my bluntness and I mean no offense but you have an aura of "salvation" about the way you try and get people to challenge their beliefs, I know lots of people who's belief systems I could never follow but if they're happy then why not leave them be? They'll find their way in the end because one thing society cannot take away from us is our humanity. It is their reality they see through their eyes, what makes it wrong?

Don't get me wrong I also enjoy expanding my knowledge of other people, belief systems and cultures but nothing but harm can befall everyone if the anthropologist begins to change what they're studying.



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31 May 2010, 3:46 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
I've also gone through a spell of depression, over the past week. I was melting down at the clubhouse, and I haven't been eating much. A woman who's 2 years older than me, but very immature, said that she'd never do anything to hurt me. Well, she told me not to phone anymore, two weeks ago, she showed up at my place and wanted to go out with my two best friend and I, a week ago. She called me a lair, and hung up on me, last Wednesday, just because I joked around about one of the male staff at the club having a crush on her. All that has thrown me in, for a loop.


That sounds horrible :( have you spoken to the woman (the immature one) about why she done this?



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31 May 2010, 3:52 pm

Amber-Miasma wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
I've also gone through a spell of depression, over the past week. I was melting down at the clubhouse, and I haven't been eating much. A woman who's 2 years older than me, but very immature, said that she'd never do anything to hurt me. Well, she told me not to phone anymore, two weeks ago, she showed up at my place and wanted to go out with my two best friend and I, a week ago. She called me a lair, and hung up on me, last Wednesday, just because I joked around about one of the male staff at the club having a crush on her. All that has thrown me in, for a loop.


That sounds horrible :( have you spoken to the woman (the immature one) about why she done this?


She's a perfectionist, and she doesn't want to be around people who have problems. She says to Dean, that she can't find a boyfriend with Barb and I around, because Barb and I are too old, even though Barb is only 60, and I'm two years younger than she is. She also can't be around people who have "problems" I'm on the spectrum, obviously, I identify with the male gender and I wear pull-ups, and that woman thinks that I'm always angry, when I'm not.


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Amber-Miasma
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31 May 2010, 3:58 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
Amber-Miasma wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
I've also gone through a spell of depression, over the past week. I was melting down at the clubhouse, and I haven't been eating much. A woman who's 2 years older than me, but very immature, said that she'd never do anything to hurt me. Well, she told me not to phone anymore, two weeks ago, she showed up at my place and wanted to go out with my two best friend and I, a week ago. She called me a lair, and hung up on me, last Wednesday, just because I joked around about one of the male staff at the club having a crush on her. All that has thrown me in, for a loop.


That sounds horrible :( have you spoken to the woman (the immature one) about why she done this?


She's a perfectionist, and she doesn't want to be around people who have problems. She says to Dean, that she can't find a boyfriend with Barb and I around, because Barb and I are too old, even though Barb is only 60, and I'm two years younger than she is. She also can't be around people who have "problems" I'm on the spectrum, obviously, I identify with the male gender and I wear pull-ups, and that woman thinks that I'm always angry, when I'm not.


Then screw her, if she can't accept you and your other mate then let her go ply her nastiness elsewhere :x



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31 May 2010, 5:14 pm

Amber-Miasma wrote:
I think everyone has the ability to feel compassion but we're not all compassionate about the same things, for example you seem compassionate about other people where as other people might be compassionate about their country or their belongings or their vegetable garden - I wouldn't necessarily say that their being compassionate about things you disagree with makes them "wrong" they simply have different priorities. Excuse my bluntness and I mean no offense but you have an aura of "salvation" about the way you try and get people to challenge their beliefs, I know lots of people who's belief systems I could never follow but if they're happy then why not leave them be? They'll find their way in the end because one thing society cannot take away from us is our humanity. It is their reality they see through their eyes, what makes it wrong?
Nothing makes it wrong, but everything can always be improved. There's no attainable perfection, so there's always room for expansion. I'm not imposing my own beliefs on theirs. I'm not agreeing nor disagreeing with them. I'm simply trying to push them to think even more than they already are thinking. I don't mind if someone does the same thing to me, either. I have a friend who always questions the things I say, and it's useful as it helps me notice the weaknesses in my own beliefs.

I think that this is the only thing I am capable of doing for others for now. Besides educating people about autism, maybe, which is another thing I enjoy doing.

And CockneyRebel, that woman was not worth spending your time with in first place.


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Amber-Miasma
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31 May 2010, 5:19 pm

MathGirl wrote:
Amber-Miasma wrote:
I think everyone has the ability to feel compassion but we're not all compassionate about the same things, for example you seem compassionate about other people where as other people might be compassionate about their country or their belongings or their vegetable garden - I wouldn't necessarily say that their being compassionate about things you disagree with makes them "wrong" they simply have different priorities. Excuse my bluntness and I mean no offense but you have an aura of "salvation" about the way you try and get people to challenge their beliefs, I know lots of people who's belief systems I could never follow but if they're happy then why not leave them be? They'll find their way in the end because one thing society cannot take away from us is our humanity. It is their reality they see through their eyes, what makes it wrong?
Nothing makes it wrong, but everything can always be improved. There's no attainable perfection, so there's always room for expansion. I'm not imposing my own beliefs on theirs. I'm not agreeing nor disagreeing with them. I'm simply trying to push them to think even more than they already are thinking.
This has nothing to do with my own beliefs. I just think that this is the only thing I am capable of doing for others for now. Besides educating people about autism, maybe, which is another thing I enjoy doing.


I'm not saying anything about educating, if someone want's educating then they'll listen - just the same way that if someone wants to expand or improve their reality then they will by their own desire alone, I personally don't feel people need pushed as it's their decision ultimately. If your heart is really set on helping people why not train to be a counselor or aid worker, they do wonderful, life changing things for people.



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31 May 2010, 5:25 pm

Amber-Miasma wrote:
I'm not saying anything about educating, if someone want's educating then they'll listen - just the same way that if someone wants to expand or improve their reality then they will by their own desire alone, I personally don't feel people need pushed as it's their decision ultimately. If your heart is really set on helping people why not train to be a counselor or aid worker, they do wonderful, life changing things for people.
That's what I'm doing. However, it's a long term process. I have to find something useful to do meanwhile, something that keeps me from becoming isolated. I need to constantly be involved, otherwise I get bored. And in terms of being pushed... I wish I was pushed more. What if people would become happier if they're pushed? I don't see harm in doing it. If they've never had a taste of what it's like outside the cave, they would choose to remain in the cave forever.


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31 May 2010, 5:34 pm

MathGirl wrote:
Amber-Miasma wrote:
I'm not saying anything about educating, if someone want's educating then they'll listen - just the same way that if someone wants to expand or improve their reality then they will by their own desire alone, I personally don't feel people need pushed as it's their decision ultimately. If your heart is really set on helping people why not train to be a counselor or aid worker, they do wonderful, life changing things for people.
That's what I'm doing. However, it's a long term process. I have to find something useful to do meanwhile, something that keeps me from becoming isolated. I need to constantly be involved, otherwise I get bored. And in terms of being pushed... I wish I was pushed more. What if people would become happier if they're pushed? I don't see harm in doing it. If they've never had a taste of what it's like outside the cave, they would choose to remain in the cave forever.


But that's their decision, if you choose to push yourself to the limits of your being then that's fine but other people seem quite happy to lead the life they have chosen - think of it this way, if they were really miserable with their lot in life don't you think they'd strive to change it?

So the need to be involved in other people strives from boredom?



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31 May 2010, 5:36 pm

Amber-Miasma wrote:
MathGirl wrote:
Amber-Miasma wrote:
I'm not saying anything about educating, if someone want's educating then they'll listen - just the same way that if someone wants to expand or improve their reality then they will by their own desire alone, I personally don't feel people need pushed as it's their decision ultimately. If your heart is really set on helping people why not train to be a counselor or aid worker, they do wonderful, life changing things for people.
That's what I'm doing. However, it's a long term process. I have to find something useful to do meanwhile, something that keeps me from becoming isolated. I need to constantly be involved, otherwise I get bored. And in terms of being pushed... I wish I was pushed more. What if people would become happier if they're pushed? I don't see harm in doing it. If they've never had a taste of what it's like outside the cave, they would choose to remain in the cave forever.

But that's their decision, if you choose to push yourself to the limits of your being then that's fine but other people seem quite happy to lead the life they have chosen - think of it this way, if they were really miserable with their lot in life don't you think they'd strive to change it?

So the need to be involved in other people strives from boredom?
Anything I do strives from boredom. Boredom simply happens when there's nothing to do. At that point, I feel like I'm wasting my life. After a while, I might start feeling suicidal.


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Amber-Miasma
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31 May 2010, 5:42 pm

MathGirl wrote:
Amber-Miasma wrote:
MathGirl wrote:
Amber-Miasma wrote:
I'm not saying anything about educating, if someone want's educating then they'll listen - just the same way that if someone wants to expand or improve their reality then they will by their own desire alone, I personally don't feel people need pushed as it's their decision ultimately. If your heart is really set on helping people why not train to be a counselor or aid worker, they do wonderful, life changing things for people.
That's what I'm doing. However, it's a long term process. I have to find something useful to do meanwhile, something that keeps me from becoming isolated. I need to constantly be involved, otherwise I get bored. And in terms of being pushed... I wish I was pushed more. What if people would become happier if they're pushed? I don't see harm in doing it. If they've never had a taste of what it's like outside the cave, they would choose to remain in the cave forever.

But that's their decision, if you choose to push yourself to the limits of your being then that's fine but other people seem quite happy to lead the life they have chosen - think of it this way, if they were really miserable with their lot in life don't you think they'd strive to change it?

So the need to be involved in other people strives from boredom?
Anything I do strives from boredom. Boredom simply happens when there's nothing to do. At that point, I feel like I'm wasting my life. After a while, I might start feeling suicidal.


I think suicidal is a little extreme, I've been there and boredom was the last thing on my mind. People are a pretty fragile toy to be using to alleviate your boredom - I don't mean that in a malicious way but really...



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31 May 2010, 5:47 pm

Amber-Miasma wrote:
I think suicidal is a little extreme, I've been there and boredom was the last thing on my mind. People are a pretty fragile toy to be using to alleviate your boredom - I don't mean that in a malicious way but really...
I don't know why, but I always end up gravitating toward people. I simply find it difficult to not be around people for long stretches of time, because most of my thoughts involve other people. I force myself to think about other things, like school. And essential needs, such as grooming and food. But the rest of the time, I'm thinking of matters that involve other people.

I really do feel suicidal, though. After I spend one day alone without any human contact whatsoever, it's almost guaranteed that I will begin having suicidal thoughts.


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31 May 2010, 5:52 pm

MathGirl wrote:
Amber-Miasma wrote:
I think suicidal is a little extreme, I've been there and boredom was the last thing on my mind. People are a pretty fragile toy to be using to alleviate your boredom - I don't mean that in a malicious way but really...
I don't know why, but I always end up gravitating toward people. I simply find it difficult to not be around people for long stretches of time, because most of my thoughts involve other people. I force myself to think about other things, like school. And essential needs, such as grooming and food. But the rest of the time, I'm thinking of matters that involve other people.

I really do feel suicidal, though. After I spend one day alone without any human contact whatsoever, it's almost guaranteed that I will begin having suicidal thoughts.


Have you ever acted on, or made more than a token attempt at suicide preparation?



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31 May 2010, 5:54 pm

Amber-Miasma wrote:
Have you ever acted on, or made more than a token attempt at suicide preparation?
I've cut my wrists and hit myself very hard against the walls. I've also made two serious attempts throughout my lifetime. However, I haven't found myself in this situation for more than a year now.


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