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Sweetleaf
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08 Jan 2012, 12:18 am

OliveOilMom wrote:
I think Sweetleaf is just overwhelmed with the problems going on in her life and doesn't know how to even begin to solve them. It sounds to me like she feels defeated before she even starts, and I've been there myself. Everywhere you turn, another brick wall. How do you get out of that?

As for attention seeking, maybe nobody in her life is giving her the kind of attention or emotional support she needs, and by posting about her problems here she's hoping to get it here. There is nothing wrong with that at all. Maybe she doesn't feel important to anyone in her life, or the people in her life don't help her feel validated and thats what she's needing. I don't know, but those are some things that could be going on.

I've had major depression myself, and it's bad. You lose all hope and you think things will never get better and you can't even see how to start making them better.

I'd personally suggest that she sees a psychiatrist for antidepressants and some therapy. That's what helped me. It seems futile to do that when you are depressed, but if you make yourself try, then the meds can help you start to feel better and the therapy can help you get things sorted out so that you can get out of the situation you are in.

As for those who want to put her down for posting negative things, just don't read her posts if they bother you. It's pretty simple. Just because there is no ignore feature doesn't mean you are required to read every post by everyone. Telling someone they are wallowing in self pity has never made anyone else go "you know what, you're right! I'll stop right now!" unless the person was only a bit down about something that wasn't all that important. A kick in the pants can work for some people over some things, but when you are seriously depressed, it will only make things worse.

I'd also suggest to Sweetleaf that she cut out the alcohol for a while. Been there, done that. It feels like it helps you with how you feel, and it does to an extent for a little while, it numbs the pain and gets you out of your head for a few hours, but alcohol tends to cause depression for days after drinking in some people. It does in me. Try staying away from it for a few weeks and see if you feel any better. The first three days are pretty bad but the way you think starts to change after that, or it does for me. I can sometimes see a little optimism after it's all out of my system and my brain chemistry is back to normal. It can cause that from just a few beers in some people just like it may take an entire bottle of vodka in others to cause that level of depression.

These are just my suggestions. Hope it helps.


Yeah that is about right. Also, I have cut down on drinking, I went two weeks only drinking twice and not even that much. But I guess that does not matter considering I got too drunk and puked last night, drank a bit the night before and am in fact drinking a beer right now. But I could probably go a week without drinking.....but then I would probably smoke more cannabis to make up for it. That's less damaging than drinking excessively though. Seriously though I guess I have a bit less self control over things like that than I thought.

Also I've tried therapy and I can just never seem to get anywhere with it..and I tried the anti-depressant prozac which turned out to be horrible. At the moment I am thinking if I could figure out what I want to try and do with my life for the time being or something that might help and if I was in a better environment but those things are not guaranteed to happen.


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OliveOilMom
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08 Jan 2012, 12:40 am

Antidepressants are all different. Prozac never did anything at all for me. I've tried many of them and it takes trial and error to find which ones work for you. When you find the right one it's like finding a key for a lock. It's amazing the difference that you feel.

As for therapy, I would think doing that along with the right antidepressants may be a better help to you. It's hard to become motivated for change and for all the work that it entails when you are in the midst of a major depression.

Motivation follows action it seems for some people. I know it does for me. I've been so depressed that I felt like it wasn't any use to try the antidepressants again, even after I had good results with them in the past. It's the depression itself that makes everything seem hopeless when it's not. It's not really possible to see the hope that is there and the possibilities when you are depressed simply because of the nature of depression. Depression causes faulty thinking. That faulty thinking is also very believable when you are depressed.

If you could get to a doctor and try different antidepressants until you find one that starts to work for you, I truly think you will begin to feel better. Once you start feeling better is when the therapy works well. You have the energy to put into it then, and the meds actually give you back your will to get better and not simply survive from day to day.

It takes anywhere from two to four weeks to feel the full effects of antidepressants, and you may have to go through several to find the right one or combination of them. I know that sounds like a long time, but look at it like this. If you don't go to the dr and try the meds then at the end of that time you are still going to be depressed. If you try the meds and they don't work you are still going to be depressed but you are one step closer to getting better because you have eliminated one med already. It can't hurt to try them.

I have tried some that did make me suicidal, so you have to always be on the lookout for that at first, and if you start feeling that way, KNOW that it's the meds making you feel like that and those are NOT your real thoughts or emotions, only side effects of the meds. The dr will change them to something else if you feel suicidal on them.

I can't suggest the meds enough. They have literally saved my life before, and the lives of countless other people. Depression is a medical problem. It's an imbalance in the brain chemicals. It needs to be treated medically. Clinical depression like that is very different from situational depression where you are just down over something and know you can get over it, you just don't have the motivation right then and are very sad about it. Situational depression can be helped by therapy alone many times. When it's clinical you need something medical to fix it. There's no shame in it.

Hope you feel better, and please reconsider meds. Putting it off won't do anything except keep you in the state you are in for longer.


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Sweetleaf
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08 Jan 2012, 12:50 am

Well thanks for the advice but I still have not recovered from the prozac so I really am uncomfortable, with trying any other anti-depressants. It only took the prozac 3 1/2 weeks to really screw me up so I ended up throwing the rest away. Luckily the worst of the effects only lasted for like a day but it was pretty horrible.

Also, even if I was more willing to maybe try that again(maybe that will occur), it would be difficult/impossible for me to afford so that kinda also would get in the way.


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artrat
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08 Jan 2012, 2:28 am

I see nothing wrong with being a victim or having self-pity.

Society and people that lack empathy see victims as weak. that does not give them the right to exploit the weak.
If a person has not lived they same exact life as sweetleaf than they have no reason to criticize her.

I know that depression can be hell. I sometimes make myself a victim and feel sorry for myself too.
Unless you have PTSD and clinical depression then you can not understand everything sweetleaf is going through.

Perhaps people should not come on the haven and insult other people. It should be for support and sympathy.
The only time I ever come to the haven is when I am suicidal. You could indirectly cause a suicide.


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Sweetleaf
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08 Jan 2012, 2:34 am

artrat wrote:
Perhaps people should not come on the haven and insult other people. It should be for support and sympathy.
The only time I ever come to the haven is when I am suicidal. You could indirectly cause a suicide.


Yeah.....I am kind of afraid to post in here now if I feel too suicidal because I don't want someone to set off that whole thinking process that usually leads to me attempting or considering that.


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08 Jan 2012, 7:32 am

I understand Tequila's point, but I don't think the Haven was the proper venue for it to be made. I don't post often in the Haven myself precisely because I'm not great at sugarcoating things and tend to call things as I see them.
That being said, I do think there is a tendency within the Haven as a forum to unwittingly reinforce some maladaptive behaviors, specifically by insulating posters from their own culpability in certain situations and being supportive when a reality check really would be more helpful. Note that I'm not saying that this is the case in this specific thread, just making a general observation about this forum.


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goodwitchy
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08 Jan 2012, 7:42 am

artrat wrote:

Perhaps people should not come on the haven and insult other people. It should be for support and sympathy.


Spot on. I agree.

Also, I hope some people realize that this forum may be the only social support system some WP users have at the moment.



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08 Jan 2012, 10:54 am

Dox47 wrote:
I understand Tequila's point, but I don't think the Haven was the proper venue for it to be made.


I understand this, but she was using this forum to say how people in more combative forums (i.e. PPR) were being beastly to her. If you come to the Haven mentioning disagreements you have with other posters and messages made in other parts of the site, contributors from there are likely to come and comment here in order to set the record straight.



marshall
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08 Jan 2012, 11:19 am

Dox47 wrote:
I understand Tequila's point, but I don't think the Haven was the proper venue for it to be made. I don't post often in the Haven myself precisely because I'm not great at sugarcoating things and tend to call things as I see them.
That being said, I do think there is a tendency within the Haven as a forum to unwittingly reinforce some maladaptive behaviors, specifically by insulating posters from their own culpability in certain situations and being supportive when a reality check really would be more helpful. Note that I'm not saying that this is the case in this specific thread, just making a general observation about this forum.

I think culpability is a harmful concept if it's to be interpreted as judgement. If you want someone to take charge, you first have to help a person believe that their situation and state of being can change. If you have trouble imagining how anything could change for the better, being told that it's your own fault only reinforces the frustration which leads to self-loathing. Invalidating someone's emotions is also completely unhelpful. I tend to agree with the idea behind Dielectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT) that judgmental language does not have to be a per-requisite for taking action. Being judgement doesn't help if someone is already deeply self-critical. Sometimes it's more helpful to just acknowledge emotions as what they are, without any need to justifying or un-justifying them through self-talk.

As for reinforcing maladaptive behaviors, I think this site tends to be a lot better than most NT support sites. For the most part a lot of people do try to give concrete advice, not just sympathy and emotional coddling (for lack of a better term). Not that there's anything wrong with giving emotional support.



Last edited by marshall on 08 Jan 2012, 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

b9
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08 Jan 2012, 11:20 am

Quote:
comment here in order to set the record straight.


you are a warped record in my mind tequila.
your words are always designed to paint yourself as a stoic and hard nosed person with a "no nonsense" attitude, and i believe you do that to attract women of the type that are attracted to the daniel person, and you care not for how you tread on vulnerable people to achieve it.

i read what you said in this thread and i did not like it and i have no voice because i am weak, but i think that your aggrandizing posture is repulsive. she is real and hurting and you tread on her head with your heavy boots to hopefully get admiration from people who admire your attitude.

i know i will get a severe warning or i even maybe banned for saying what i said, but i think you should just f**k off and let her talk to people who care about her without interfering with your own rancid attitude.

you have other places to be, so i think you should go there.

i will not say anything more in this thread i promise.



Last edited by b9 on 08 Jan 2012, 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

marshall
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08 Jan 2012, 11:22 am

Tequila wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
I understand Tequila's point, but I don't think the Haven was the proper venue for it to be made.


I understand this, but she was using this forum to say how people in more combative forums (i.e. PPR) were being beastly to her. If you come to the Haven mentioning disagreements you have with other posters and messages made in other parts of the site, contributors from there are likely to come and comment here in order to set the record straight.


I don't see how you can justify what you say unless you are either a.) completely ignorant or b.) trolling.



Ann2011
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08 Jan 2012, 11:49 am

Sweetleaf, being called "a victim" could be an insult or an observation, depending on how its said; but it is a rather dismissive thing to say to someone.

Everyone is victimized by someone at some point in their lives, but it's not good to identify yourself with these experiences by labeling yourself. You are lots of things. To a certain extent (and I know how depression works against this) you can choose which experiences you want to identify yourself with - choose the good ones.



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08 Jan 2012, 11:54 am

Ann2011 wrote:
Everyone is victimized by someone at some point in their lives, but it's not good to identify yourself with these experiences by labeling yourself. You are lots of things. To a certain extent (and I know how depression works against this) you can choose which experiences you want to identify yourself with - choose the good ones.


This is true, and is sort of what I've been trying to get at. Instead of constantly victimising yourself/thinking yourself as hard-done to, it's worth thinking about the positive things and experiences you have in your life and your hopes and dreams for the future. A lot of us have had a very bad time here from people generally but we take advice on how to proceed and then patch ourselves up as best we can. In extreme circumstances we have the people who have harmed us prosecuted and jailed, if it was a person that had done this. People have all sorts of traumatic things - not all of them the work of other people - affect them through their life and a true test of their character is how they deal with it. Most recover (or try to) as best they can and try to put their bad experiences behind them, getting help for them along the way. You don't seem to be doing this and it's this maladaptive behaviour that has caused and is causing you pain.

You will eventually find a way out of this rut and find a way in order to live life, if not entirely to the full, then at least with something you can live with. You might even have fun doing it!

First stop: get your medication sorted out and stop dragging it out.

Good luck. :)



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08 Jan 2012, 12:19 pm

Dox47 wrote:
I understand Tequila's point, but I don't think the Haven was the proper venue for it to be made. I don't post often in the Haven myself precisely because I'm not great at sugarcoating things and tend to call things as I see them.
That being said, I do think there is a tendency within the Haven as a forum to unwittingly reinforce some maladaptive behaviors, specifically by insulating posters from their own culpability in certain situations and being supportive when a reality check really would be more helpful. Note that I'm not saying that this is the case in this specific thread, just making a general observation about this forum.


I still don't really understand the point other then Tequilia apparently thinks I deserve not to have any friends, am am just generally a peice of garbage who generally just causes problems for people by being so unpleasent, ugly and down because I'm depressed. But even if there where good points made the haven is a horrible place to try and kick someone while their down.


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Sweetleaf
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08 Jan 2012, 12:22 pm

Tequila wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
I understand Tequila's point, but I don't think the Haven was the proper venue for it to be made.


I understand this, but she was using this forum to say how people in more combative forums (i.e. PPR) were being beastly to her. If you come to the Haven mentioning disagreements you have with other posters and messages made in other parts of the site, contributors from there are likely to come and comment here in order to set the record straight.


Yeah I felt really freaking bad when the two comments where made in my thread in the politics forum about how i was 'playing the victim' and putting on some attention seeking self pity act. So I came to the Haven to post about it because It made me feel like crap. And the record had been set quite straight, you ripped me to shreads with that extreme amount of criticizm you posted in this thread only making me feel even worse about the entire thing.


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Sweetleaf
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08 Jan 2012, 12:31 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
Sweetleaf, being called "a victim" could be an insult or an observation, depending on how its said; but it is a rather dismissive thing to say to someone.

Everyone is victimized by someone at some point in their lives, but it's not good to identify yourself with these experiences by labeling yourself. You are lots of things. To a certain extent (and I know how depression works against this) you can choose which experiences you want to identify yourself with - choose the good ones.


What good ones? as much as some here don't really belive it my negative experiances kind of outweigh the positives and all the experiances. So that's easier said then done.....especially with the depression. Also, I would not say I really identify myself as a victim as if that is what really defines me but based on how I feel about my life and experiances I don't feel I've really moved on or recovered from anything so I would feel stupid calling myself a 'survivor,' I am just not optimistic enough about my situation to try and sugar coat it as something its not.


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