Suicide is painless

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That's reflective of how I feel about it. I feel like the useless and sometimes awful treatments used for my disorder are going to kill in a way whether I like it or not. I was going to use medication over heroin or coke. I fear myself mentally degrading in the future whether I want to or not. I don't have faith in the mental health system because I'm partially traumatized by it. So it's nice to know there are always caring people like Fnord offering a helping hand to pathetic people like me.

You're not pathetic! Some people get a crummy deal, simple as that. So many of us who are not NT (and some NTs as well) have to deal with way more pain than the average person. The fact that you have made it this far means you aren't pathetic.

The thing about suicide is, it occurs when your pain exceeds your coping resources. That's it. None of this other fancy crap matters.

So you must increase your coping resources or find a way of decreasing your pain. Another side note--relief is a feeling, so suicide will not bring relief. It is better to suffer than be numb.

Well, tough times make some people break down and others harden up. It seems that both responses have their downsides.

It took me about 10 years to find an antidepressant that worked and was tolerable. I still get p*ssed when I see antidepressant ads on TV that make it sound so easy. Maybe you have more complicated stuff to deal with , though. FWIW I'm somewhat amazed that I'm in my 40's -- I didn't think I was gong to live this long. And when I'm not having a bad day (which is admittedly not as often as I'd like) I'm glad for it.

People can criticize me all they want. I hope they keep in mind that I also used to feel that everyone should care for me and support me, especially when I was unemployed and homeless.

Does anyone else know what it is like to take shelter in a gardener's shed on Christmas Eve, when the previous Christmas was spent with family and friends? Can anyone else imagine how it feels to be sick and alone, listening to the church choir on the next block sing about "Goodwill to Men"? Have any of you ever had the need to ask for charity from the leaders of that same church, only to be told that there was nothing that any of those healthy, wealthy people could do for you, and then coming to the sudden realization that it's all a lie? Does anyone understand what prompted me to change from being the quintessential "Nice Guy" (a.k.a., "Doormat") to the way I am now?

That's when I resolved to never again rely on the goodwill of others for my well-being. Of course, I could have felt sorry for myself and just let the cold take me. Instead, I waited until the services were over, broke into the church, helped myself to their pantry, took some clothing from their good-will drive, spent the night sleeping behind the altar, and left with the crowd of parishioners who came to services on Christmas morning.

Then, as soon as the recruiting office was opened, I enlisted in the military. The next 13 weeks were hell, but nothing compared to what my father and now ex-wife had put me through. Six years later, with an honorable discharge on my DD-214, I went back to that church and left a few hundred-dollar bills in the collection plate, with a note explaining what I had done.

Since then, I've worked my way to into an engineering position in a publicly-traded corporation. I'm married again; to a beautiful woman I met overseas. Everything I have accomplished since that Christmas Eve over a quarter of a century ago ago has been because I resolved to never let anyone abuse or take advantage of me ever again. Maybe you all think I owe you something, but where the hell were you when I was homeless?

It's been my personal experience that people who are weak tend to get abused or exploited (or both); that people who are sensitive tend to get ignored or ridiculed; and people who are weak and sensitive tend to be ignored or ridiculed whenever they complain about being abuse or exploited. I experienced that kind of treatment because I used to be kind and submissive, but not any more. I changed my situation by changing my attitude from "victim" to "survivor".

So, before anyone else jumps on the "Bash Fnord" bandwagon, they would do well to ask themselves how they handle being cast aside by a culture that seems to value only the strong and arrogant. Do they whine and complain about how the world is so mean to them? Do they roll over and take it? Do they plan for suicide? Or do they make the changes in themselves that make them survivors of adversity instead of victims of society?

Go ahead. Bash away. I've handled worse ... and without any of you to help me get through it.

The difference, perhaps, is you still have hope. People who are profoundly mentally ill often do not. Soldiers in endless combat situations can completely lose their sanity. There are many situations that push someone beyond their ability to cope. People also experience things differently. You can sit at your keyboard and judge all you like, and I am just as free to think you're ignorant.

What bugs me about threads like this - everyone has different reasons. There are some reasons that really need to be checked out and reviewed because they're short-sighted or fleeting. There are other times where, based on how the person feels the world, or the types of problems they're dealing with - they may be right and they may have significantly more fear of turning into black holes or monsters of human beings if they have more decades left ahead of them than they can weather. Still other times where, say someone killed another person in negligence or did something else where they personally can't shake the feeling like they have zero right to be here; IMHO that's between them and themselves, for those who can't relate to them on that point its a bit sick and needy (unless they have children or other people who literally need them) to try and 'rescue' them.

That said, I get that there's a fine line that needs to be walked and that its not something to be encouraged. Likely one of the better reasons for not taking such an action is that it's very hard to do, literally, and worse case scenario a person ends up being still alive but far worse off than they were before - massive brain damage, the bullet might have gone right or left of the spine and they just have a hole through their head, a person could lose physical function; the life that was previously hell that the person was trying to escape is now several layers deeper into hell. That's all the more reason why anyone who isn't fully serious and for whom the economics of that possibility don't jive, shouldn't entertain it.

I don't intentionally want to bash you Fnord genuinely it's great that you've found something that works for you and makes you stronger than other people. I wish I could be that way but CaptainTrips222 summed it up perfectly. The difference, perhaps, is you still have hope. People who are profoundly mentally ill often do not. I try to have hope and I try to ignore hurtful things but what it comes down to is the tolerance level vs my capabilities at the time. Who knows maybe one day I'll find the right meds and it won't be an issue, I'm really surprised I made it to my current age. Birthday parties are always so much more meaningful to me than the average person. Once all my cards are down though god only knows what I might do.

It comes down to this: Suicidal people need a hug and an ear.

It isn't any more productive to tell someone who's suicidal they're wrong than it is to kick a war veteran in the knee on his last good leg. They're both going to fall down regardless.

It is not my intent to "bash" or criticize you. I don't know you enough to be able to make any sort of judgments about you, and it's not my place anyway. Certainly, from what you've mentioned, you've been through some rough experiences, and I can't blame you for being so distrustful of others, nor can I truly imagine what it must have been like or compare my own life to yours.

All I really wish to do here is share my experiences, and hope somebody benefits from them.

You ask whether I consider myself a victim or a survivor. The answer is, I'm a survivor. But it wasn't easy, and just a few years ago, I likely would've identified with the word "victim" much more strongly. From my late teen years, up until several months ago, I was beset by a lingering form of depression called dysthymia. It wasn't particularly severe most of the time-- although on occasion it could be quite powerful. The worst thing about it, though, was that it was persistent, and I often felt powerless to make it go away. The root of the depression, I imagine, was the way I was treated throughout my childhood and adolescence. I had a very lonely existence up until I was 17 or 18-- I had no real friends, no one to talk to save for my mother. On top of that, I was bullied mercilessly until I was 15. I'm talking physical, emotional, and sexual abuse. By the time I was 16, I was confused, I was hopeless, and I was so full of hatred and anger for my lot in life that I spent every waking moment that I could wearing headphones, listening to Korn and Metallica and Marilyn Manson, shutting out the world around me, and silently despising everyone.

By the time I reached college, my anger diffused into depression, and I was left with open emotional wounds that I felt would never be fully healed. It was about this time that I began to fall into the pattern of suicidal ideation. I flirted with the idea so many times that I can't imagine being able to count the number. A couple times, I came close. And there were times when the temptation was almost too strong to resist, and my only saving grace was a pathological fear of physical pain. But in my mind, I've jumped off bridges, I've shot myself, I've overdosed, I've walked knowingly into traffic. I've played out all of those scenarios, and several others, many many times.

The point is, depression is not a choice. Depression is a disease. You don't willingly decide you want your entire life to be consumed by this dark cloud-- it just happens. And when it happens, your ability to be rational, and to take an objective, distanced view of your situation drastically diminishes. Sometimes depression manifests as an actual physical pain-- for me, there was a wave of pain that rippled across my skin, and an uncontrollable seizing of muscles that forced me into a fetal position. Often I spiraled so deep, that I felt the only way to endure it was to make myself sleep it off (and I can recall frequently wishing to never wake up, too). I almost felt possessed by an entity, which was not me, which had a startling amount of power over my motor functions and my faculties, and which wanted me to end my life.

I am a survivor now, because I believe I have vanquished my depression. I don't know for sure-- depression is much like addiction, in that it can resurface if you give it half a chance by exposing yourself to triggers. But now that I can see clearly, I understand so much about my situation in retrospect.

Perhaps you, Fnord, feel like the only way to survive in a society that marginalizes the weak and sensitive, is to harden yourself and no longer show those traits. That's your personal descision, and I respect it. From my personal standpoint, though-- I have been angry, and I have tried being insensitive, and it doesn't work for me. I see it as too big a sacrifice, too much of a distraction from living my life... and moreover, I see it, in a way, as continuing to give power to my former abusers. If I let the world, ugly as it has been to me, change me into an angry, unmovable cynic for good, then I'd be letting myself become part of the ugliness itself. The world doesn't need anymore of that. I truly believe there's a way to be strong and sensitive at the same time, and they need not be mutually exclusive.

To any of you who might be considering suicide, I beseech you to reconsider. Just take some time, and really think it over. It's not wrong of you to be thinking of it-- in most cases, it's just a natural response to being overwhelmed with pain beyond your ability to cope. But things can, and often do, get better-- and suicide is an irrevocable act. Once you do it, you can't change your mind and undo it. It may take time, and it may be difficult, but it's not as insurmountable as you think, and you are not as alone as you might think either. Trust me. I've been there. I know.

Actually I think it's the opposite. People who like to hurt people and watch them suffer are going to lose if that person doesn't care and they are tough and get through it. They will see that these people are not going to suffer or even care and they will be tough so it be pointless to try and hurt them. That is the weak spot of defeating bullies. From my experience bullies actually get pissed when you don't give them the reaction they want so they insult you. Them insulting you is a call for victory because they lost and you won so they had to insult you. So in that case the insults would be a compliment. I would not take them literal and take them as a victory sign. Chances are they didn't mean it and they are just trying to hurt you because they are mad so they are trying to insult you now. Even if they did mean it, so what. They can think whatever they like and they are just thinking that because they are upset their bullying tactics failed. Then they'd leave me alone after that. They may come back but then they'd leave me alone again. I wish I did this a lot sooner s a child but I was too sensitive then and then I learned to not care and things got better after that. I think this may be why I get less bullying, I show no reaction and act like I don't notice. If I am "too dumb" to notice, what's the point going after me? I'm only talking about teasing and the verbal bullying, not them assaulting you nor taking your things nor beating you up.

Last edited by League_Girl on 23 Jan 2012, 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Every sentence, point for point, is true.

If bullies don't get what they want from you, they either insult you or threaten to escalate the violence.

There seem to be a lot of bullies interested in this thread.

I think it's really f*cked up of you to try and compare suicidal people to murderers, and I think you're a real jerk for posting all this judgmental, hateful garbage on here about people who are going though a really rough time and maybe cannot handle things as well most.

The least you could do is avoid the Haven when posting provoking comments like this to try and get under the skin of people struggling with suicidal feelings on this site.. another words quit being a bully.

Mods go ahead and ban me but I am sick of looking at Fnords judgmental, hateful comments that he has to throw into peoples threads just because he's bitter and everyone else better damn well be ok with his bitterness towards people here and people in general.

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary situation.

Life is either sacred or it is not. That is a no brainer, to me anyhow.

I grew up listening to my mother, when she was having a meltdown, threaten to commit suicide. She never did by the way and was finally treated for depression and the anti depressants helped her a lot. Of course that really messed with my head and I still have issues over it even though I now understand what was wrong with her.

When I was 18 I read somewhere that committing suicide age 18 or under is a way of rebelling against your parents. I decided I wouldn't give them the satisfaction so I never saw it as an option. My logic but it worked for me.

I also had a friend in high school who was hospitalized for attempting suicide. Me and my friends took the bus into the City and took the public transportation to the Psychiatric hospital where she was recovering. Locked doors, people heavily medicated in the social room, that also put the fear of God into me about suicide attempts. And I remember the color green, as in institutional green floors and walls. As in, I never want to end up here.

I have discussed this with my son, I told him once, we have a lot of depressed people in our family, but we don't do suicide. We might be a depressive lot but suicide has never been an option for any of us. I am glad I told him because it came out later, in therapy, that he had considered it but he also said, "but I would never do that"....

From what I understand suicide can be impulsive, and men are more efficient at it. Romanticizing it is very hard for me to understand. Meaning having fantasies about which way you would like to die and what you think will happen after you are dead. You won't know, you will be dead.

I believe the OP posted because she has noticed all the many, many posts here on Wrong Planet from people who are considering suicide. And her post came from a good place.

The people you hurt when you kill yourself are the survivors. You will permanently damage your loved ones if you commit suicide.

If you are feeling that bad, call 911 or one of the suicide hotlines. Please, really.

I agree that Fnord is very different in the way that he goes about posting. I usually try to ignore stuff posted that upsets me. Sometimes though I get too emotionally charged and in a different way I can upset people myself. I don't think that we have a right to get upset at Fnord for his opinion we can strongly disagree with it. He's a very unique person who's adopted different views and coping skills towards life. Some of the difficulties in his life that he's allegedly been through I can honestly say I'd be too weak to handle. Strong people are important too. I don't often agree with his opinions at all, and I don't in this regard either but from his experiences in life that shaped him he's just as much entitled to his opinion as I am mine. Sweetleaf I agree with you on a lot of stuff and I would personally hate it if you got banned. Especially over this. Your way better than that in my opinion. Fnord my only request is that you try to be a little more tactful and open to the idea we aren't all the same, you obviously have better coping skills in life and flaunting it can be hurtful to some.

I usually do try and ignore it, but its gotten excessive.......I mean it seems like he goes out of his way to flaunt his superior coping skills though personally I don't think going through life totally bitter about everything is an example of good coping skills but to each their own. Not to mention the motives for murder and suicide are usually quite a bit different. Murdering someone seems like kind of a power thing.....being on the verge of killing oneself is probably more about being in pain and wanting it to end so its just a terrible and rather offensive comparison.

It is a very awful comparison and so I posted my opposition to it. I'm sure though that there are other people who might have similar views as Fnord. Getting the chance to post an opposing perspective might be good for those lurkers on this site. I agree he can go a little far sometimes. But right here right now we have the chance to tell him that in a more polite manner. If he posts something that makes me feel belittled I will go to the mods about it. I'd rather let them handle stuff like that, rather than risk getting myself banned. He's definitely been string the pot recently. On another note I do feel bad for people who have to become extremely detached from sympathy in order to survive. That's why I'm not going to go out of my way bash everything he has to say.