Now apparently my little brother wants to kill himself

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Well, we were talking on the phone when he said this, and basically I just asked him, "Why?" And basically he just told me thinks he's a loser, he's not going to get into any college, stuff like that, and I told him he doesn't know that because he isn't even graduated from high school yet. Plus, college isn't everything. Not every job requires college experience, and some people probably do really well for themselves with little or no college experience. Not a majority, but surely there are some, so it's possible. Plus, he had a girlfriend at the time, and I'm pretty sure he still does. That was always a big deal for me because all my little brothers are getting girlfriends and here I am with no girlfriend ever, several years ahead of them. It kind of made me angry that he would think he's a loser even though he seemed to be doing just fine.

But other than explaining to him that there is no reason for him to think he's a loser, at least not from what he told me, I didn't comment directly on him saying he wanted to die because I have no idea what to say about that. I didn't want to tell him he needs to go to a mental institution or see a therapist just because of that. He wasn't even expressing suicidal thoughts technically, he just said he wanted to die.


I don't know. I don't like people that I know knowing things about me. Maybe because in the past if I tried to talk about anything with them (which was already really hard and still is) I would always get the impression (or often they would even directly say to me) that it doesn't matter. So many people would do this to me, including that girl I told you about. Nobody f*****g cared, they just wanted me to give them results, because, "You're so smart, you should be doing better." I didn't know why it was so difficult for me at the time since I was only ever diagnosed with ADHD which it was seeming to me that I didn't really have. But it was still really hard for me, and I would explain it as well as I could, and they would say, "It doesn't matter." To me, that felt like them just telling me my thoughts and feelings don't matter to them, and honestly I don't think they do. They have never said anything otherwise.

Anyway, so the reason I don't show them is a combination of fear, and also, what are they going to be able to do with this information that I've been suicidal and probably will be in the future? I doubt it's over yet (and probably never will be), I just go through phases where I feel ok. They can't really help me, and they will probably just tell me it doesn't matter like before. I'm sick of that.

Not only that, but even on the off-chance that they were nice about it, I am really afraid of close relationships of any kind. I always kind of have been and it's only gotten even worse. So even though now I'm better at explaining my feelings I don't feel like I want to explain them to anyone I know. Really, they will probably use it against me.


I'm not sure I understand what you mean by a parallel. Plus, how could he possibly think being like me is going to solve his problems? He just called me a loser and specifically told me that he himself was going to get a better job than me and all this other crap about how he's going places and I'm not. In my opinion, someone who is planning on ending their life doesn't put somebody else down like that, let alone tell them how much better they are. When I'm suicidal (and even in normal moments) I don't feel like I'm better than others. I feel worse. I feel like I'm the loser. Not my stupid brother.

Of course, not everyone is like me. But in my experience, suicidal people are not mean in that way. They might take out their anger on others indirectly, but I find it hard to believe they'd call someone else the very thing they call themselves when they think they are the most worthless being alive. I didn't, because I didn't want anyone else feeling this terrible. Not that I believed they cared that much about my opinion that they would be affected in any way. (see?) I know when I got mad at people like that it was very emotional, because I was getting defensive, or just because I was very angry at life in general and took it out on others. It wasn't like me stating condescendingly and unemotionally, "Hey, you're a loser, I'm better than you." It was more like, "LEAVE ME ALONE, I HATE YOU, YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT ME AT ALL!" I'm having a hard time believing he's really wanting to kill himself honestly.

He's just mean to people. For no reason. He makes others' lives worse intentionally. Why would he do that? It makes me want to beat him up. My little brother Jack (who I think almost certainly has Asperger's as well) has a lot of problems with anxiety and really all aspects of life. He's 11 and can barely tie his shoes, has social and academic and behavioral problems in school, he lives with my jerk of a step dad (his real dad), and the list goes on. Basically, he's like me, but he has even worse sensory issues than me or my mom, and he isn't nearly as smart as I was at his age. That helped me A LOT, so I can only imagine how hard it is for him. And on top of all that my brother is mean to him. He makes fun of him and hurts him. I was hoping he was starting to grow out of it but now I see he's not. And of course he's mean to my mom too. She is always nice to him. I'm getting sick of it. I see no reason to help him unless he stops acting like he's entitled to everything and being a dick to everyone. Actually, I can't do anything until he stops.

The way you reacted to your brother s "Life sucks, I would seriously want to die." was quite O.K. It might have just been better to say something directly to this" want to die".

Saying that you want to die IS expressing suicidal thoughts. (Funny that we are changing our NT-aspie classic roles here.)


That was always a big deal for you, right, but maybe not for him. Maybe the relationship to his girlfriend was not like you perceived it from the outside. Didnt many people assume that you got along well with your ex-friend for a certain time at least, or some even that you had a close friendship or even a rather happy relationship, and in fact it was neither a true relationship nor as easy as it looked to some others? If people say things like "life sucks, I would seriously want to die", I would not think that they are quite O.K. in their relationship, but, in case they dont say anything negative about it, rather assume that they cant phrase their problems with relationships as well as you and I can. Are your sure that when he talked about not being able to make friends, the idea that he was not able to have a normal relationship was not included in this? If someone tells me that he is not able to make friend, I would assume that he is also not able to make a closer relationship work. Do you know anything about the break-up between his girlfriend and him?

I understand all your fears about letting your family in with what you post on wrongplanet, and I would say that these fears are basically - probably even fully - justified. I did not want you to seek or expect help from your family, I just wanted to advise you on how to help your brother, and indirectly your other family members. You will obviously need some strength to stand their annoying reactions. And if you dont feel strong enough that is a good reason for refraining from showing them these posts. You need some kind of protective area after all. But if you want to help or get help you also definitely need more openness. In general openness helps a lot. I think we hardly would have had the discussion we have had here, if we hadnt been open about the trouble we have had with our own relationships, and about what we think, and hadnt it been you to open up first, I would have hardly made my first post. Without a certain openness you cant expect to achieve anything in relationships. But you neednt go as far as to show your brother what you wrote on wrongplanet. It might be actually better to "customize" some of the content to make it fit him better.

You: How could he possibly think being like me is going to solve his problems? He just called me a loser and specifically told me that he himself was going to get a better job than me and all this other crap about how he's going places and I'm not.
Me: You said elsewhere that before you believed in this "you-can-achieve-everything-you-want" ideology. Couldnt your brother still buy it to a certain degree? Again, if you want to support him in distancing himself from this ideology, you have to open up on your own life experience. Just philosophizing about this ideology in an abstract way is not enough.
You: In my opinion, someone who is planning on ending their life [should react and express himself differently.]
Me: For an Asperger you have pretty concise ideas about what is a normal reaction and what not. In this case you are wrong: Aspergers have generally problems with their emotional regulation, could either be like you (and your brother) temper problems or problems (more your brother than you) with a very limited range of feelings (c. alexithymia). Your brother saying something "unemotionally" where you expect a more empathetic statement might be more an alexithymia issue. Alexithymic people sense their own emotions in only a very numb and confusing way, have trouble with phrasing their feelings and can appear more callous than they are. Your brother being mean to your little brother and to your mother is mostly a temper problem, but also a problem of not understanding his anger and anxieties, and their feelings.
You: He's just mean to people. For no reason.
Me: There is a reason to everything. Understanding the reason, does not make the meanness factor disappear, but reduces it.
You: He makes others' lives worse intentionally.
Me: I doubt that he is more than very little aware of the harm he is doing.
You: It makes me want to beat him up.
Me: Beating someone up is not very awareness raising. At least not in this case. You can take a firm stand here without getting violent, just by words and acts and silneces. If you are not sure how to react about something, stay silent or just show that you are puzzled or feel uncomfortable or angry with it (not with him!), if possible without scaring him.
You: My middle brother is mean to my little Aspie brother and to my Aspie mum.
Me: That is partly auto-aggression. He cant stand his own autistic features, his own difficulties and his own being rejected by others. Partly a general unease with with the world. Partly the kind of interaction he is used to. Partly not caring, because it costs a lot of effort to think things through and to change behavior. Partly wanting to be mean.
(As for your little brother, how much time does he have to spend with your middle brother?)
You: I'm getting sick of it.
Me: I am at least once in a week bothering my neighbors, because I am shouting so loud how sick I am with people who have the power to make my child unhappy (and many other people, too). I consider them far too bad in their power of judgement to decide, they are much more blown up than your brother can be, because their vanity is fed with professional and social "achievement", with power, with the experience of getting away with a lot and because they have to cheat on themselves to uphold the appearance.
You: I cant do anything until he stops.
Me: I would not get that angry with a highschool student, but take him as someone who might have more power in the future, and yourself as someone who should give it a try to hinder him from getting more depraved.

Ok, so here is what happened. I changed my password to my iTunes back when he told me he thought I was a loser (because we'd been sharing music but I figured if I'm a loser then why would he want my music?) and then he asked me about it later on when he noticed. I told him basically what I put here, why would he want my music if I'm a loser. So this is when he told me he overreacted, that he wouldn't do it again, and said, "I need meds". I already told him maybe he should go see a doctor then even before this, and when I suggested this again he said something like, "maybe". I just honestly don't know what to do. Even if I knew he was actually planning on killing himself and not just thinking about it, what can I do about it? I have no control over him, I can only suggest.

Plus, I still think about killing myself daily. It seems I will always end up back in that place where I truly want to kill myself, and one day I'm going to have the right opportunities coincide with that moment, and then I will be dead. I can't really tell someone not to kill themselves if I'm still on the edge about it myself.

At least you know your brother didn't mean it when it called you a "loser." It was his depression that was talking.

I hope you both can help each other. You're brothers!

It needs time and the right kind of experience to get stronger and wiser, and if you start with a depressive disposition, it is later in your life that it needs time and the right kind of experience. Be a bit patient with life.
I know I belong to the lucky ones, but I suffer with you and people who are depressed and have all kind of problems, and I am suffering from my own problems, too. In a certain sense: the more lucky you are with your family, the more you run into trouble (your own and that of other people) later in your life. So there is not a complete difference between you and me.

As for your brother: You could call him or chat with him twice a week, could be for a short time only, and can include also some "small" talk, but try to get also to some meaningful issue. Be open about yourself. As this thinking about killing yourself is so central to your life as it is right now, and should resonate with him a lot, it does not make any sense to hide it. Start with giving him your new iTune password, and excuse yourself for having taking it away, tell him why. He is complaining about not having friends, that includes not having a supportive enough brother. Ask him what kind of more friendship-like relation he would like to have with you for the moment, and what he thinks you could do to make it work. Try to find out how he took the separation from his girlfriend, and the best way to do that is that your are open about the friendship and problems you had with your ex-friend, and also about your being jealous about his little brothers having girl-friends.

I volunteer if you want to go on discussing your conversations with him here on wrongplanet, if that helps.

It is not that I am expecting you to produce the "magic trick" and to pull him out of his depression like in two weeks. I want you to be with him and to show that you care about him. It is not the "big trauma" that brings about a severe depression and suicidal thoughts, so it is also not the "big magic trick" that alleviates the depression, but something smaller, even much smaller. It is the small things that are having the biggest effect in human matters.

Maybe you can read some book like that of John Gray, not that I am a big fan of his books, but I cant think of anything else capturing better one particular idea. Gray considers the biggest fault of men (you can put aspies instead of "men") to always want to offer "the solution" instead of something as (NT) simple as "comfort". Gray tells the example of him and his wife Bonnie: she had given birth to their child, it had been a difficult birth, he had to go back to work, it was his first or second day back at work. She had pains and asked his brother to bring her some pain killers, but he had forgotten about it. She had been waiting for the painkillers nearly the whole day while taking care of the baby (which sounds not that much, but believe me, it is). When her husband arrived, he said that she should have called him, and seeing her stressed out, was thinking that she was angry with him, and finally went out of the room. She then said something like that as long as she is the sunshine Bonnie, everything is fine, but just than she needs him most he leaves her, and let her alone, that she does not need the pain killers, but just someone to take her in her arms, to talk with her and to calm her. (Seems like what followed was experienced by him as a true bonding experience.)

Try to get something of this into your head.

BTW: Are you noticing that there is "force" in "comfort"?