cut myself

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Like, the way he's been crazy-making for me, the worst of the pain resulting in making things the worst for me, is that he was still acting quite loving and caring after pushing me out of his life (and I fully believe it, because he's messed up himself and that he's not doing it on purpose) a bit more every time. The inconsistency has brought it to where it got this bad.

I'd caution that some mentally disturbed people (like your bf/ex whatever) can seem to be a double agent of sorts in love. I think some people may have love for you, and it's real but not be in love with you, as in want to "be" with you. I know I don't get that idea personally. But I know some people are like this.

Reason I encourage caution is that if you are with one of these people, your interactions may not mean the same things to them as they do to you. This will make you crazy. What you see as a push/pull, they may see as confusion and indecision, which may be genuine, but still doesn't help. I don't believe once people get to
that confused phase they ever fully come back to how they were before. Maybe I'm wrong. My personal experiences are limited in terms of numbers. Just help yourself out by not over analyzing every aspect of every interaction. It doesn't sound like he is. Again, maybe I'm wrong. Just spitballin here since your venting very similar things to what I'm living. I may be over-personalizing again. I apologize if I am. I don't mean to just sort of barge up in your venting and say 'oh hey me too'. If this is more "cavernio's stream of consciousness shitstorm rant" then I apologize again. But I'm in a not too dissimilar spot so I figure I'd have some insight, useless or otherwise to chime in.

I'd do yourself another favor and try (good luck I'm sure you are) to be less frantic in your heart about this whole thing. That can come through as intense and intimidating. Especially if your dealing with a timid loved one. Not saying it's easy or knocking you in any way at all, just a probably too obvious recommendation.

If your retelling of the reasons as to why he's "scared" are accurate then it seems pretty benign. I mean not all people see it this way I've found out. Now I think a lot of people's perception of "violent" actions like that depend on why you are doing it and how often. How easy it is to get you to throw s**t. For some, doing it at
all is completely nuts. But I think it's normal provided you aren't breaking important s**t or anyone else's nor are causing physical danger to anyone. And things can almost always be worked out. Not everyone always wants things to be work. Sometimes people get sick of relationship work and have to stay away from it altogether. Even if you haven't gotten tired. Even if they may not completely "want" to leave. This may be a possible reason for apparent push/pulling as well.

When you are always available to someone, and they know this, they can take advantage of you without even really trying or intending to. You're there for this guy whenever he needs you. You know him better than anyone. Exactly what he needs. You love him unconditionally despite lukewarm receptions a lot of the time.
You're mostly satisfied even if the relationship is uneven. At least from all you've let on. You're making it very easy for him to use you. Bad day? Call the helpline. Things going good, no need to bother. You're becoming, or have become an on-demand partner it seems. He gets what he needs, when he needs it, yet you seem to get very little to nothing back. That's going to drive you nuts if so because you'll never get back out of it what you need, and you seem like someone who needs (which I think gets a very bad reputation in general, neediness is not a bad thing per se, just a vulnerability that needs accounting for) . You'll be left to survive on whatever emotional crumbs he throws you. This is no way to live.

You can't have a relationship without trust, thats for dame sure. Nor can you have one without a proper system of problem resolution that doesn't involve one timid party running and hiding all of the time. Some people I think just want it easy or not at all. Others want someone in their life so badly that they will work for it, both internally and together. For some this pressure makes any good points of the relationship not worth it as a close, long term thing, but their internal feelings will never let them give up altogether.

If your parents are in on this too, then that's another hard one. Coming from different backgrounds not only means that you have and will often encounter issues with problem resolution, communication, and ultimately your views of what a good and bad relationship is. This is an element I am living in my situation. If his parents are telling him all of these things about how not safe your actions are, and getting in his head, that's going to have a lot of pull on him. Even if he doesn't have a close relationship to them. It's a bad position to be in when your partner's family thinks you are nuts. Even if it's because your partner is making you that way.

If you don't want to be strung along and wanna start letting your wounds heal, you gotta be the one to let this go for good. He seems like he may never, and you don't seem like the constant uncertainty in love is something you can cope with while not becoming suicidal. Some people can live like that. It's really not healthy for you it would seem. Believe me, I really actually get how hard that can be. I really honestly do. People say that all of the time, but I really am living what appears to be a very, very similar thing with a very very similar sounding partner and overall situation. And I'm finding myself faced with the same very hard decision/realization and am hesitating at what to do as well.

You can't keep letting yourself be so up and down with this. You've said you have mood swings that cripple you, and now you have someone pushing the swing every day of your life. Your attributes, I'm sure, could potentially be far better appreciated by someone else in this world, don't sell yourself short by being used by someone who takes advantage. I know you clearly love this guy. You're obsessed, sure, but I tend to think love without obsession is sort of lame. Some think it's unhealthy. I do not. I think it's the way things should be. Other people do too. But everyone doesn't. Especially if he comes from a lukewarm family where they sort of don't even appear to love one another. If you come from a family where people love one another and that intensity spills over into passionate arguments it's common place for a phone to be thrown or a wall to be punched through and it's nothing to make a big deal over. But you really don't need to be in a situation where you have to beg and plead for attention and dare I even say concern, affection, and even real, unconditional love. Believe you are better than this treatment. Even with all of your crazies and whatever other issues you see in yourself that brings you low self-worth. Believe you are better than being used by a confused person for aiding their own struggles while you get nothing. There are people out there that will want you as intensely as you want them. Yo can do better than this imbalance. You deserve better. Believe this in your heart, even if you feel like you are lying to yourself at times. Believing this may be the only thing that helps you out of this.

As far as the cutting, I was just advising you not to let yourself go down a more self-destructive road. If it did nothing for you, then you are probably good. It was just the topic way back when afterall... You need to track down your f*****g weed guy and smoke yourself stupid. I'd gladly give you a bong hit if you weren't in another country

And in closing, I'll apologize again if I've spoken with too many liberties or made too many assumptions about you, this guy, or your relationship. I just want to encourage a clearly broken-hearted person to whom I suspect a broken-heart is as devastating to as it is to me and I can get kinda soap box-y when I do that. I apologize if I have. Please try to relax yourself. Things will get better. It may not seem like it. But they almost have to.

I very much appreciate you saying them. I like hearing people's opinions.

Not a problem. Anytime...

There has definitely been more not good behavior of mine in mine and my ex's interactions. However, whenever I would want to get back together, my ex would always bring to the point in time that he broke up with someone who was abusive. What I have previously mentioned were my actions while we in a relationship.
That he had to change his phone number because I wouldn't stop texting him, at the point that has been I think the most powerful hurt I have ever felt in my life, sure counts as harassment. But that was long after the point he told me I was abusive. Furthermore, none of the texts were belittling, majority were pleading, a few would be pondering. And another point in time when a bunch of my stuff was still at his place, and we'd been texting at like midnight, and he was super insistent that I take my stuff sooner rather than later, so I went to his place (our old place) unannounced, let myself with the spare key I still had, and started doing dishes because they were mine and I was going to pack them at midnight.

He actually went to the police when he broke up with me, thinking I would try something. The morning he broke up with me last year I'd been in a depressed mood. I can't recall what initially started it, but I know at one point in the morning I'd said I'd been mildly turned on by this one guy who him and I actually both can't stand. (yay masochism) As I said, I don't remember how it escalated, but I remember him doing the dishes then throwing it at me that I had been turned on by said person, mocking me, and then I screamed at him, unbelievably hurt because here I was, hurting already (I was upset at this point and I don't remember why) and he was just saying something to hurt me more, and at that moment in time, AFTER he mocked me, in a fit of seemingly anger, he ended it. He made fun of me, was angry with me, and then he legitimately felt scared by me and has been scared, his words, ever since. And this past year he loves to bring up and questions my feelings for my ex-husband whom I left to be with him. The last proper conversation I had with my ex he STILL seemed to think that I want to return to my ex- husband, 3 years ago, whom I've spoken to once in that time, whom I don't bring up until he brings him up first.

I can only work on myself.

I am actually for once I think glad to have been diagnosed BPD even if under suspicious circumstances (ie: not really properly diagnosed, but it's fitting all too well now since I -have- been abandoned/rejected by someone I'd fallen in love with.) My therapist doesn't really see it because I haven't been able to describe myself properly. Now that there are things to focus my research into it more fully, it gives me a framework into which my mind can parse and then decide what in it fits about me and what doesn't. Without even having any inkling though it's like stumbling around in the dark, trying to understand myself, why I act the way I do, why I feel the way I do.

I just feel...relieved because BPD people feel emotions more strongly. It's not just me being more...indulgent in my emotions than other people therefore I behave poorly.

Best of luck to you. I think you are right about BPD and you should peruse avenues to help you feel better in yourself. Forget about other people, that is not what is important now.

Upon me describing my actions, does anyone think I am abusive? Please read through the pages if you want to answer this question for me, as I describe various events in various posts.

I am serious about this. This is a serious question. If I am an abusive person in general, I NEED to know. I know this is The Haven, so I don't need people saying I'm out of line or anything, I just need factual statements of perceptions of me in regards to the relationship that I have described. I am NOT good at how others' perceive me, I just have been trained by religion largely to be nice to other people, and when I am in a close relationship, that kinda all goes out the window for me since I feel comfortable to be myself, (which is generally awesome) even if myself might be abusive.

I don't need people saying 'but you're a good person' etc anyways. Just, say if I have acted abusively. Please.

Like, I think people may have read this and been like 'yup, cavernio's abusive' but do not say anything because this is the Haven. I WANT input however.

Last edited by cavernio on 11 Jun 2016, 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I don't know, but ask yourself if you think you're abusive. Try to look at your actions from an objective viewpoint. And put yourself in the place of others. Ask yourself how you would feel if someone behaved as you did.

I do not believe you've acted "abusively" by any reasonable definition of the word. Of course that's assuming the individual perceiving it is rational themselves, which does not appear to be the case here based. He seems to dish out the outbursts as well as you can, maybe more. I haven't heard you mention that any of your emotional outbursts include personal attacks or insults toward him unless provoked. This could be omission, but if true, would signify a rather important difference in my eyes, and I think in the eyes of many people.

Because you've mentioned a few times he's chose to go that route with things. In my own opinion, emotional outbursts should always be allowed, but mildly discouraged, if only for somone's own personal physical and mental health, as getting worked up are bad for either regardless of circumstance. Knowing "how" and "when" to fight is huge in a serious relationship. Friction happens. Feelings occasionally get hurt. Disaster avoidance and problem resolution are enormous. Keeping things "inside the lines" makes this more possible. Based on your retelling, it seems he is the catalyst for escalating things outside the lines perpetuating negative feelings and interactions between you.

Any relationship will fizzle out if there are as many negative interactions as positive ones. Some people get sick of negative experiences even if they are wrapped in some really good ones. Even if they fail to realize they are perpetuating them more than you are.

In a mutually volatile situation, neither individual could ever truly be called abusive in my eyes. Abuse means, to me, one person repeatedly beating down the other either physically, mentally or emotionally. You seem to be very intense emotionally. I suspect probably very hair triggered on the wrong/days times, and when you
go off, while harmless, is probably really going off for most people. This can be seen as maybe violent, perhaps dangerous (though I think that's very timid personally unless bladed weapons or firearms are in the picture) but not abusive if things are not personal or insulting.

A sort of side point briefly, but that whole being comfortable to be yourself thing is a very slippery slope that, at least for me, adds to the tumultuous feeling of my day to day existence. I find myself having to toggle between sinking into "comfort" than having to hyper-discipline myself back "into shape". Not sure what the point is, but for myself I suspect I'm at my best when I'm not being completely comfortable in that way. Letting my mentals all hang out unchecked is probably never a good idea with anyone at any point. Perhaps the same hold true for you.

The texting thing could be intimidating to some, as I've personally found out this week with my wife. (which, I'd sorta, if you wouldn't mind like brief feedback from YOU on one aspect of something I did here, I'll post at the end if you'd be so kind). If they are in pointless fear mode, that will come off as obsessive and even straight up nuts if you text them dozens of times apologizing, promising to be better, and begging to work things out. How, I'm really not entirely sure my own self, but I know it's a fairly common idea.

You know, I'm real sorry, I had written some more but my computer overheated and shut down halfway thru it. And I'm too high too remember all of what I said in as much detail as I'd have liked. Maybe I'll expand if it comes back to me.

Point was, you aren't abusive, but overly intense emotional attachments are intimidating to timid people. Especially if the attachments involve outbursts. You probably could work on channeling those outbursts into better communication, though I get the impression it wouldn't be hard for you if someone wanted to get where you were coming from and was willing to be aware of and heed certain emotional landmines. If you were in a situation with adequate, clear emotional communication, I'm under the impression your outbursts may be less. Or I could be internalizing here.

I know my outbursts often come from confusion as to my partners action, or some sort of distance or disinterest tweaking my insecurity and I must demand answers immediately to settle my heart. My wife doesn't care because they still come and it's intimidating and anxiety inducing for her. My point there is, don't assume because this guy with whom you have really been in love with wants to not be in a close trusting relationship with you as something being wrong with you. Or at least so wrong as to make you the villain.

There's something "wrong" with all of us. You seem to have very good self awareness and willingness to act on your observations in the interests of self improvement. this is a valuable tool and you can be the person you want. You need not worry about your being abusive. I'd suggest not falling into total security and self-justification in the matter, but also give yourself a break on this. You seem to have no lacking in looking inwards for blame. Stop it for your own good. Especially if your relationship can't be fixed. Guilt about the could have beens is only good to not repeat the mistakes in your future relationships.

If I may have a brief turn, and anyone who dared read this far can of course jump in at anytime, but here goes:

Me and my wife separated about three weeks ago with the understanding we would have no communication other than texts for money stuff. This lasted five days.

I had contacted her one day about a bill and she roped me into a three day text-fest of building her up and explaining why she isn't the world's biggest piece of s**t. I assumed this meant that texts would be ok and commonplace, albeit reduced and avoiding relationship or sexual talk. It didn't even do either of those last
two things, as talking to her always goes sexual as she has terrible self esteem and being wanted that way helps her.

All of a sudden on day the texts stopped abruptly for an entire afternoon, all night and into the next morning. In a panic, I sent flowers to her aunts house (where she is staying) and texted her this long thing begging her to come back to me when she was ready and I understanded she needed space (she left me, this was in no way mutual even though I have my issues with how she treats me in certain ways). The flower guy called to say no one was home and I lost it in a panic of where she could have gone.

Now, she said from the beginning of our problems years ago that it is not, and never would be about anyone else. That she may never move on, or at least not do so for many years due to her exceedingly low self esteem (I'm the only person to ever see her naked). I have a very hard time accepting this concept. I'd personally never leave someone unless they really did something to me. If I did, it'd only be because unintentionally someone else so strongly captivated me that I'd almost have no choice. This no choice thing feels like her vibe here. Like she can't help but have to leave.

However this abrupt thing with texting led me to go onto our cell phone account and see who she's been texting. Now, these phones are both in my name, shes not paying for them right now, and I manage the accounts online, so I didn't hack or break into anything. I think many people who suspect infidelity do investigations like this all the time.

Lo and behold, I see a number from Illinois being texted literally hundreds and hundreds of times. Back and forth for hours into the early morning am hours. The same hours I was texting and not hearing back for an hour and she's telling me shes playing games and can't answer constantly.

Now, i know she's had this male friend that she met online years ago on a Christian message board. The guy was much younger, had brain cancer and lived with his parents. Combine that with the Christian thing and the fact me and my wife were actually married, I assumed he was never a threat. I'm not a very controlling in that way when I feel the bond is solid. But when I seen the volume of texts over the last 6 months or so, I flipped out.

So I asked her what was up with it. She told me what I already knew and sort of said she understood why I was like that but also scolded me to not be so psycho. So i stopped. And she'd text me in these erratic bursts, sounding happy and excited to talk to me, seeming hopeful we can make things work, and we'd text for hours, then shed just stop. Not, I have to go. Not, this is going to far we shouldn't even be talking, nothing. After days of this I got suspicious again, and this time I did something I probably shouldn't have, but seems very reasonable to me-- I texted the guy myself.

I didn't threaten him in the slightest. Wasn't insulting, rude or anything. Just said, hey, you know I'm her husband, we're separated here and you guys talk all day, something up here? Just tell me so I don't get dragged along, man up if so etc etc. Nothing about fighting, stalking, name calling or anything. Just a man-to-man appeal to his humanity to let me off the hook if I'm in fact on one, because I had become convinced, and am still concerned there more to our separation than she's let on.

He texts me back politely, assures me it's not like that, that my wife had helped him out through rough emotional times and he was returning the favor. Not sure I totally bought it, but I sort have to or I go to very dark places in my mind. My wife then texted me to tell me how that was "stalkerish" and "creepy" and I'm only
making things harder on her. I felt irritated because even though she said she understood why, I didn't feel she actually did. She doesn't understand what going through this in the dark, with no control over it does to me and my separation anxiety. I think she got scared by it.

Now, admittedly I have said in the past I would kill anyone she left me for, and mostly meant it, which I guess is sorta psycho, but seems to me like a normal way to feel when you love someone. I never said, or would hurt her at all ever, ever. But someone else getting in the way... not so much.

So, is this really "stalkerish". How bad on a scale of 1-10? I see it simply as a heartbroken, desperate person scrambling for answers, but some people I know would disagree.

Secondly, based on that small explanation, should I have right to suspect what I have?

Thanks in advance. You don't have to answer if you don't want. It is your thread. But thanks if so.

I haven't read every post in detail because there's too much, but I offer the following opinion: throwing things, breaking things, screaming, are not mellow behaviors. They may not be "abusive" per se, but they don't make for a very calm environment. You seem to think these behaviors are not all that bad, because you didn't physically hurt any one. Well, I think it's time to stop excusing yourself for these behaviors. This is not how emotionally healthy people behave. This is not an adult way to behave.

You sure do have to move on from this ex. Find another place to game, or find a new hobby that doesn't even involve gaming. Maybe knitting, or art. I think it's probably best not to go home to mom and dad if you can help it, but to continue your independence. Yet if you really are suicidal, that's the moment to admit you need help and get it. Even self-harm, like cutting, is a sign that something's badly out of whack. Besides mom & dad, and ex boyfriend, whom could you turn to? Your psychiatrist? A support group? Please find another direction to turn.

I'm also concerned because you were considering giving up your cat - which would not be good for the cat. (another thread) I'm always unsure, is BPD = bipolar disorder, or is it borderline personality disorder? Either way, I'm sure you have a psych contact. Please use it.

I've actually been told that if breaking things is what I need to do then to throw ice, from therapy, and I even questioned this in the DBT group, point blank, if that bothers someone else nearby, she said 'So?' and shrugged her shoulders. Social norms are most certainly not always right. It's not just that I didn't physically hurt anyone, it's that I didn't -want- or -try- to physically hurt anyone, and am not being controlling about it, and am not trying to be intimidating.
That said if how I act bothers someone then they are free to leave. And he did.

"So I asked her what was up with it. She told me what I already knew and sort of said she understood why I was like that but also scolded me to not be so psycho. So i stopped. And she'd text me in these erratic bursts, sounding happy and excited to talk to me, seeming hopeful we can make things work, and we'd text for hours, then shed just stop. Not, I have to go. Not, this is going to far we shouldn't even be talking, nothing. After days of this I got suspicious again, and this time I did something I probably shouldn't have, but seems very reasonable to me-- I texted the guy myself"

Ok, so for how long are her silent periods of time? A couple hours? A day? 2 days? Because all those seem reasonable to me for her to not be texting you while you're separated for right now.

You should ask her to tell you when she's going to be done a conversation with you explicitly in text, in general, always, because it seems like you otherwise might freak out a bit.

Stalkerish? I dunno, I'm really bad at these things. With ONLY knowing as much as you put in there, it's not 0. Maybe 5? What's done is done though.

Consider the possibility that she and him are being honest 100% of the time; she might be literally spending all this time talking to that guy trying to make your relationship work because maybe he has insight or something from his past or some friend etc, and when she's not texting him she's texting you telling you how much she wants this to work and everything. If that's the case, isn't what she's doing really, really awesome?

The moment you give into fear over trust is where the issues arise, so while there's absolutely a chance your jealousy is founded, giving into that fear is the LAST thing you want to be doing. It serves no purpose and is antithetical to your goal. Allow yourself spikes of jealousy, emotionally, and let them pass as they will.

I'm FAR more concerned that you said you'd kill anyone else who would be with her. I hate to break it to you, and you're allowed to feel and maybe say it in a way that she might have thought nice once maybe, but that's a death threat if you break up and she finds someone else and you say it to him, and far more crazy would be to follow through.

Even if in your heart you might think they're OK to do, they are illegal.

I just realized that the problem I am going through with keeping friends while I am feeling depressed and suicidal etc. is not just mine. The friends are taking on my emotional problems on as their own, trying to bear it and then they can't and so they blame me for having my emotions. I then also see a judgement value that they put on me when they do not want to talk to me, instead of perceiving that they just cannot handle talking to me.



...
That is so neat! The closer we are to someone, the more our mind actually treats that person -us-. The closer we become to someone, the more there becomes cognitive dissonance in our minds when we disagree with how the other party acts or expresses themselves. This equates to more fighting with people we actually love and care about. This implies that 2 people interacting is literally the creation of a new mind.
The logic...everywhich in that paragraph, but I believe in there there is a funtional hypothesis.

I would also like to say, in my defense, that I'm well aware that these things aren't usual, and that before the relationship was even affected by any sort of outburst like that ones I was getting as I was becoming depressed, I was waiting for psychological help. I then bought self-help books and relationship books that were helping me already (the course was actually entirely free online, but it had helped me so much that I wanted to pay the man for his work), which he did not want to really go through with me. Even after it was all gone to s**t I was working on our communication, and working on myself as I still am now.

Thanks. The periods of time were reasonable but erratic. We are separated after all. It's just, she gets to text whenever and stop whenever and I have to just sort of deal with it. I doubt it's to save our relationship though. If it were I'd be shocked. She's never put the same into our relationship as me emotionally. I'd go to any lengths to fix things. She seems like if they are broken time to get a new one lately. Ah, the perils of modern consumerism...

And yes, when she tells me she's busy or has to go, I'm ok with it. I'm clingy but not insane. When things were good I wasn't at all like this either. It's the uncertainty and the ideas that I'm being abandoned that are freaking me out big time. And that's my burden. I have to control it better. Her communicating simple things like that has been an issue. I'm insecure but very easy to reassure as well. Sometimes I just gotta hear it. She was good with it during good times, and not so much lately.

5 sounds right. I really didn't hide much about it. It was a pretty simple event. Just wanted to know an outside perspective and don't really have any that have nothing personally invested. I know it wasn't the best thing to do, but I didn't go overboard.

When I am hurt, I want to hurt back. I know this is unhealthy. I would never hurt my wife, or really any woman because that goes against my personal ethics. But it's hard for me to think that it's WRONG to get revenge on such an infraction. Illegal does not always mean wrong. I mean, we both smoke pot. I've indulged in many offenses over the years. I cant drive anywhere without speeding... Legality and morality don't always align...

But your right. It's straight up nuts. I'd like to think I have much better control. I've always felt this way and had my first girlfriend leave me for my best friend and he came and picked her up at my house that night. I didn't kill him (of course had three people holding me back but that's another story ). I wanted to. I told him I was going to. But I didn't I did nothing. While it's not any more sane, if I ever got so despaired, I'd probably just check myself out instead. Why ruin innocent people's lives. This scumbag prolly would have family and friends that care about him even though he deserves to die. I wouldn't want to shame my own parents either.

It's just abandonment is my sorest of sore spots. I can't take personal betrayal. I'm so diligent in never being that way, that it frustrates me when other people are that way to me.

Many people absorb the feelings of those around them. Intensely negative ones in particular. That's not always good company. And it wears people down, proportionate to the amount they care about you because your hurt is their hurt.

There also can become a frustration. I, over the weekend, frustrated the hell out of my best friend over my issues. I'm so caught up in my feelings and anxiety of loss that anything people try to tell me short of the magic word to get her back makes me argue with them. People being concerned for "only me" and encouraging me to "move on" get me pissed off, but it's probably the right advice as much as I can't accept it right now.

I do also think more casual friends simply don't want to hear other peoples problems for too long before the idea of being brought down makes you undesirable to be around. While I understand this to a point, a good friend has a pretty long leash and will only yank gently when you're going too far.

But yeah, not internalizing that and making it personal is probably a good thing for you. Keeping realistic expectations on others can be very challenging. I know for me it has been. I hold myself to such a high standard in the ways of loyalty, reliability, being a good "clutch" friend and really putting myself aside for a friend in need. I'm teaching myself how rare that is so I don't always get so frustrated with people for not doing for me what "I'd do for me". I'm also finding out through that thought exercise, when I am where I am there is no "helping" me, just weathering the storm and trying again tomorrow.