Addicted To Suffering.

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This article refers to brain chemistry being involved:

"Suffering and struggle are emotional addictions as strong as addictions to alcohol, nicotine and drugs.

No, I'm not kidding. The only difference is that these addictions are created by our internal emotional states rather than by external substances introduced to the body.

So if you notice a pattern in your life of struggle and suffering from one issue to another with little respite in between -- I've got news for you: you've got an emotional addiction.

Emotion Is Chemistry

How on earth, you ask, a person can become addicted to suffering and struggle? These life conditions are the states of being running on a cluster of negative emotions such as worry, fear, anger, pain, depression, low self-esteem and victimhood. A typical example here is the "battered wife syndrome," where a woman is unable to leave an abusive relationship, and when she finally does -- with the help of police and social services -- soon after she finds another man who will continue the abuse. She will attract similar relationships one after another, as if subconsciously wanting to experience pain. The fact is -- she does. The question is: why?

Every emotion, either positive or negative, is a blend of chemicals (neurotransmitters and hormones) that our brain instantly produces in response to thoughts. This cocktail circulates throughout the body producing corresponding sensations that are felt at both the psychological and physical levels. The chemistry of emotion is very addictive, if repeated frequently over a long period of time -- just like the chemistry of nicotine, alcohol and drugs. This is most noticeable in the case of negative emotions, as they produce stress hormones that our body, in a twisted, self-destructive way, can easily start craving like a drug."

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/are-you- ... _b_9744416

Suffering & struggle are physical conditions inflicted by despotic psychopaths.

I'm going to speak for myself here: I'm not demanding anything. Nor do got this 'standards' as others seem to imply.
Nor do I tell you what to do, nor I dictate what your and other's 'status' are. It's really up to you if choose to react.

In my case, really, it doesn't matter what people think. I just posted my own piece here and leave it that. So what if I told others what I 'saw' and observed? It's not any more wrong nor right from any.

Sorry if something triggered or whatnot. Who am I to claim that I 'understand'? Did I made such claim that I've been there myself? Did I theorize your case? Do you really speak for others?


And didn't came here for any debate.
Because I see no reason for it and I won't participate any.

I am recognizing it as a brain chemistry issue like depression or a disease like alcoholism.

The thing with a disease is realizing it exists and knowing its signs and symptoms.

I have generalized anxiety disorder, which has brain chemistry issues similar to depression. I have had to have it treated through SSRI meds (used for treating depression) and cognitive behavioral therapy.

I went though a period of inflecting self harm to feel better, which is what I needed the CBT for.

I am not someone on a high horse pointing a finger at others. Although I withhold talking about myself much, I am a pretty f****d up person with a lot of issues.

Enough of a basket case to need to be in a nursing home the rest of my life starting while still in my teens.

Want to trade lives with me? I doubt it.

Trading lives is probably way more of a pain in the ass than anything I'm familiar with anyway.

I haven't received military training so I'm curious about it.
Is it all about keeping your calm and doing what needs to be done when your body wants to panic?
If so, I guess it's quite a lot about breaking the feedback loop: emotions -> actions -> emotions. You can control the loop on the "actions" part and then emotions will be influenced.

I came to the problem from a different direction, I was always told "you shouldn't feel XYZ, you have no reason to feel XYZ, stop feeling XYZ". The result? All the unpleasant feelings lingered in me instead of being processed, understood, released, gone. I needed to reach my thirties to understand that I felt distress all the time because of my sensory issues, not some "addiction to being distressed".

I don't particularly feel that "addicted" is the most appropriate word for this. There may be some similar brain chemistry but there's other variables that, shall we say, make it not so simple. Or I at least feel there should be a better distinction here.

A major thing to be noted is that most people that do suffer from addiction 100% know that they want the item of their addiction. People who seem stuck in their suffering don't necessarily want to suffer.

It's certainly true that people can and do make themselves miserable. It's also true that some people do very much like to be a victim and play the "poor me" role and that prevents them from trying to improve their situation. These people are the ones that could be applied to being addicted to suffering.

The ones who are hurting, that don't want to, but can't take action don't fit "addicted" as well as those I mentioned above. There could be a few things going on and yes it is typically attributed to other mental health difficulties.

We as humans tend to gravitate towards what we know. They say that at some point many people will either date or marry one of their parents (not literally). Those people of course are not addicted to some trait of their parents that gets them seeking a partner with it also. It's more of a conditioning/programing thing. So when you have had someone with a turbulent upbringing it isn't a surprise that that person ends up gravitating to other people/situations that will provide turbulence. Unless one makes a point to "reprogram" this when it has a negative impact it typically will repeat.

Humans often seek comfort even if it negative. So when what we have largely known is unhappiness, even though it's unpleasant, it's familiar and thus has a comfort to it. Even with the grass greener on the other side there is a fear of leaving the comfort area, and thus at times won't. Simplistic: Imagine living in a very dark box. You can tell it's brighter outside because of the slightest light creeping in, and you can hear others having fun but you know if you open the door to leave, the light is going to be blinding and make your eyes burn. Kind of makes you hesitate to leave the darkness, yeah?

And of course plain ole fear of failure. Say you do all advice given, do everything you are capable of doing to try to change things but you still end up the same. And so the thought then is: you were right about being doomed but now you've exhausted possibility. There is no more maybe to cling to. These thoughts and fearful feelings also stop those who are unhappy from acting and they will have endless reasons why nothing will work. Staying still, making excuses seems less painful and scary than it is to risk failing.

Self loathing and feelings of guilt are another possibility as well as outside factors. But the point is these are reasons and causation that can exist without "addiction to suffering" but the people may still exhibit the same behaviours.

Honestly I have felt frustrated by the approach taken with tank emptiers on this site. Not the tank emptiers themselves.
(*Tank emptiers= constant taking of resources but zero effort made to give back=taking time and resources for granted... not cool.)

It's a community of peers yet no one seems to point that out. All advice given comes from folks who have their own difficulties staying afloat. No one mentions that, it seems to me like it's not ok to say 'I'm autistic and sometimes I struggle too, this is normal, it doesnt change, this is life for people with ASD, you will always struggle in certain ways'.

You shouldn't be disingenuous when seeking help but many people are for a wide variety of reasons. Perhaps they dont recognise it, again what is wrong with pointing that out?
That should be fine, again it's a community of peers, not a safe space race to the bottom of who has it worse. Anything but that is better.

That attitude divides a community and censors too many people who dont have any other place to speak freely. Which I feel is happening on WP.

Yet there seems to be a misconception that if an echo chamber dressed as something more productive isnt provided that's evidence of lack of empathy.

Call it an echo chamber, dont delude the person who is unready for advice, adding to the miscommunications and dismiss your own difficulties in the process.

Tldr ...the difference between what should be and what is.

People do things because it's effective. That's my opinion anyway.

Somewhere along the line they've gotten the message that if they stay in a perpetual cycle of misery they get something out of it. If a good therapist can ever get them to answer honestly about what the 'pay off' is, they can begin to change. But most can't be honest with themselves. It would require them stepping out on a limb without their tool/weapon of choice. If they've spent a lifetime holding others hostage with these tactics, they aren't likely to turn loose of them willingly. They'd need to be shown how it no longer 'serves' them and that a newer, more healthy 'pay off' will bring a better life.

All behavior is motivated.

I understand where you're coming from, agree with most of it and have seen some of the behaviour you describe here. There's a reason we officially have different rules in the Haven: I fully support that and have often reported or publically addressed people who make harassing or hectoring posts here.

My own choice has been to just not engage people who either made it clear that my opinions and advice are not welcome, or I just reached that conclusion by myself. I wouldn't want to see this turned into a rule though and there's been enough drama in the past with people reporting others merely for posting in their threads.

My question is where do we draw the line? I imagine Fnord (as well as myself and quite a few others) for instance would qualify as "staying afloat". Nevermind that the man has been through hell and back, through hardships most of us will thankfully never know and in my own opinion that his experiences might be useful to some: for the sake of this argument, let's leave that aside and say his contributions are useless or at least unappreciated. What should we do? Ban him from posting? Make a new rule that anybody who has achieved any success or progress in life shouldn't post in the Haven? Ban any kind of pragmatical or concrete recommendations? Especially since, in all honesty, he and other "successful" people have also been actively helpful and supportive and openly acknowledged as such.

And people who come across as more or less having their life together, who don't complain much, rant, make threats of suicide and stay articulate enough get almost no support when they make their own threads in the Haven and are often derailed by posters dismissing their suffering and claiming they have bigger, more significant problems. Just like offline, lack of overt, loud emotion is seen as lack of emotion.

What really bothers me in this thread is the attack on Ezra. He is not staying "afloat" by any means and he never made a secret of his problems, even if he's not complaining much. He didn't make this thread saying "y'all are a bunch of junkies that should be blamed and shamed for your problems since you enjoy them", and yet it seems this is how some people chose to read his post. The irony is priceless, since Ezra has neurological and physical issues much more severe than most of us, that affect drastically not only his quality of life, but even his life expectancy. He never was and will never be able to live independently, have a job or a family and a lot of other things that many people here either have and take for granted or at least have a chance of achieving. I have no doubt he'd get a lot of sympathy and support if he were to post here more about his struggles: but he doesn't and on occasions is even suspicious of sympathy if he perceives it as pity or condescension. Apparently this makes him an acceptable target and since he isn't vocal enough when in pain, it's fine to claim his attempt of exploring a hypothesis about his own and other people's problems is "disgusting", accuse him of arrogance, "dehumanising" others and hugely ironically again of talking about things he doesn't understand or know. And this is not a pissing contest on my part about who has it worse, I'm just trying to put things in perspective and remind people that those who don't want to be judged shouldn't be so quick to judge others and make extravagant assumptions about other people intentions or (lack of) struggles.

Yes, this should be a community and especially in the Haven it's sad to see posts motivated by personal grudges and dislikes. Those who function better and had certain advantages in life shouldn't dismiss and look down at those who don't. But there are also those who post here regularly about their issues and actually get a lot of emotional support both from the membership and (some of) the mods and their own struggles are not - in my opinion - an excuse for solipsism, personal attacks, or angry, unsupported assertions and accusations, while claiming they are the ones being bullied

Remain calm ... don't panic ... don't punch the drill instructor in the face ... do what you're told ... yeah, that's pretty much it -- maintaining a cool exterior while your interior is a seething, steaming mass of emotion.One of the most hateful phrases I've ever been told is "You shouldn't feel that way". Just because some stupid drunk runs the red light and smashes into my car, the idea is that I should not feel anger, fear, hatred, and the urge to beat the living snot out of him. No, I should instead feel happy, cheerful and friendly toward the idiot who ruins my car, cracks some ribs and one of my vertebrae, and gets in my face blaming me for not waiting to let him through the intersection against the light.

Sorry ... flashback ...

Great point!

I was taught : thought->emotion->action
Then I was taught : move a muscle-> change a thought

I think everything can be changed, but it's often a leap of faith. X is not working and I'm downright miserable, so I'll attempt something new. I have mechanically carried out a task until it becomes a healthier 'habit' simply because to remain stagnate was intolerable for me and everyone around me. I found that Emily Dickinson was right, "Laugh and the world laughs with you, weep and you weep alone, for the sad old earth must borrow it's mirth, but has trouble enough of it's own." I never felt like I had to be 'ON' 24/7. I felt free enough to have a bad day. But when everyday is a bad day and people start walking to the other side of the street to avoid me, I've got a problem. Because then I'm really alone... I have to get out of myself enough to help another, that's what give and take is about.

I'm still a work in progress, I try and keep my experiences confined to myself because of that.

We have to think about the distinction between THOUGHTS and ACTIONS, like others have stated.

Civilization, to me, is basically about the restraint of certain thoughts which Homo sapiens inevitably have. Like wanting to bash somebody on the face who bumps into you in the subway.

Obviously, in any society (even "uncivilized" ones), one must restrain that urge.

Just not willing to do anything to attempt to improve the situation


But sometimes when you try to fix something, you fail


If you fail you waste time, money, energy





Doesn't mean "addicted to suffering"

"Addicted" is the wrong word

I think relatively little people are really "addicted to suffering".

In most cases I would rather say "stuck in suffering" - unable to process some unpleasant feelings and move on
or "trapped in a loop of suffering", like being anxious over one's own anxiety.
Or some mix of the two.

Finding sad songs or heavy metal pleasant is not suffering addiction, it's just some taste for art.

I think it's very well the case, as with my mother, they are not addicted to the suffering but the attention it gets them (negative OR positive doesn't matter so much as the attention itself)