Wars... and how to talk to children?

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magz
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25 Feb 2022, 4:16 am

Pepe wrote:

magz wrote:

Bet my left testicle on whatever you like.

What are the sakes?
What do I get if I am right? :wink:

My left testicle. With its ontological status "as is".

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magz
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25 Feb 2022, 4:18 am

r00tb33r wrote:

Honestly it's pretty sad that the western chunk of Ukraine won't return to Poland. Poland means NATO, and Putin won't allow that expansion.

Who are you and why do you hate Ukrainians?

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Pepe
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25 Feb 2022, 4:21 am

magz wrote:

Pepe wrote:

magz wrote:

Bet my left testicle on whatever you like.

What are the sakes?
What do I get if I am right? :wink:

My left testicle. With its ontological status "as is".

The "testicle" was metaphorical since it doesn't actually exist.

magz
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25 Feb 2022, 4:23 am

Pepe wrote:

The "testicle" was metaphorical since it doesn't actually exist.

That's why I'm okay with you betting it.

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Pepe
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25 Feb 2022, 4:25 am

magz wrote:

r00tb33r wrote:

Honestly it's pretty sad that the western chunk of Ukraine won't return to Poland. Poland means NATO, and Putin won't allow that expansion.

Who are you and why do you hate Ukrainians?

I have been binge eating through anxiety since pootin invaded Ukraine.
Do you have friends from Ukraine?

Pepe
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25 Feb 2022, 4:32 am

magz wrote:

Pepe wrote:

The "testicle" was metaphorical since it doesn't actually exist.

That's why I'm okay with you betting it.

I am trying to be reassuring.
I am telling the Truth that I don't think Poland will be threatened.
I have ties with the Baltic States, aslo, btw.

I believe NATO has transferred troops to the East.
Even a psychopath wouldn't start WWIII by attacking NATO.

Russia's economy is about the size of Australia's. Not the best to start a war against all the members of NATO.

magz
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25 Feb 2022, 4:35 am

Pepe wrote:

Do you have friends from Ukraine?

As far as I have many friends at all - numerous Ukrainians have been meaningful people in my life.

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r00tb33r
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25 Feb 2022, 4:53 am

magz wrote:

r00tb33r wrote:

Honestly it's pretty sad that the western chunk of Ukraine won't return to Poland. Poland means NATO, and Putin won't allow that expansion.

Who are you and why do you hate Ukrainians?

I don't believe I experience such strong emotions toward any one person or a group.

In a way, I think it would correct a historical wrong, and those people would be much better off in the more prosperous Poland, and within the EU.

It's quite sad that in the effort to cling on to power the president of Ukraine is throwing his people under the bus, squealing about danger to him, and issuing weapons to civilians for his defense. All that will do is get more people killed. He should have run for asylum in the west. It's senseless to send everyone to die in a futile effort.

The innocent Ukranian people are caught in the crossfire of a power struggle between Russia and US. I have a lot of empathy for them, they're getting steamrolled and it's not even their fault.

Ukrainians and Russians killing each other is quite unimaginable. I hope it will be over soon and the bloodshed will stop.

magz
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25 Feb 2022, 4:59 am

Euromaidan was about the whole Ukraine wanting to join EU, not just Lviv. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians went to streets for it. This is what angered Moscow so much that the war started.

So, again, why do you deny Ukrainians a right to choose their own politics and apparently support partition of Ukraine more than their independence?

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r00tb33r
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25 Feb 2022, 5:18 am

magz wrote:

So, again, why do you deny Ukrainians a right to choose their own politics and apparently support partition of Ukraine more than their independence?

I don't possess that kind of influence, sadly. Wish I could help.

It is an interesting subject on its own though, for the longest time EU wasn't even interested in including Ukraine... And no such guarantees were ever given to them. The subject is a political plaything for European leaders.

Maybe my view is just more planted in reality? Someone here recently said that they're between a rock and a hard place. I think that's a very accurate statement. Their curse is in the geography. It sucks, but there is no chance of that changing so long as they serve as a buffer between NATO and Russia.

You know, the bigger picture is a bit more complex...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/ex-nato-head-says-putin-wanted-to-join-alliance-early-on-in-his-rule

This might be a good read too:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/20451225
https://chtyvo.org.ua/authors/David_Marples/Stepan_Bandera_The_Resurrection_of_a_Ukrainian_National_Hero_anhl.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2010/02/24/a-fascist-hero-in-democratic-kiev/
This figure's popularity in recent years is pretty unsettling...

Last edited by r00tb33r on 25 Feb 2022, 5:47 am, edited 5 times in total.

HighLlama
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25 Feb 2022, 5:21 am

r00tb33r wrote:

magz wrote:

r00tb33r wrote:

Honestly it's pretty sad that the western chunk of Ukraine won't return to Poland. Poland means NATO, and Putin won't allow that expansion.

Who are you and why do you hate Ukrainians?

That's what politics is, dude. If we create power, people will exploit it. If we keep waiting to be rescued, we will be used.

magz
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25 Feb 2022, 6:03 am

I'm well aware of Stepan Bandera and ethnic cleansings he led.
I'm also well aware of why in his times Ukrainians viewed Poles as enemies.
I'm well aware of whitewashing him and making him a mythical hero during Euromaidan.

Nothing of these justifies and invasion now.

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r00tb33r
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25 Feb 2022, 6:13 am

magz wrote:

You had asked me what I think. I tried to explain that I have a more complex opinion just for/against.

magz
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25 Feb 2022, 6:22 am

I asked you not what you think - you've been expressing it in numerous threads, in a way suggesting it's big and important to you - but why.

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kraftiekortie
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25 Feb 2022, 6:24 am

It’s not fair that the Ukranian people have to face upheaval like this.

Even the Russian-speaking people in the East are against the invasion.

Even many Russians in Russia.

If you think the economy was bad in Russia before this—it’ll get much worse because of Putin and his ego.

kraftiekortie
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25 Feb 2022, 6:26 am

Pan-Russians don’t believe in a Ukrainian identity at all. Ironically, the Ukrainians are the “original” Russians.

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