You're a victim?

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I feel I'm a victim, and it makes me feel miserable. I feel that people's bad intentions are always aimed at me and me only. My counsellor is referring me to CBT to see if it might help me think differently and think that I'm not a victim, and hopefully I should feel more convinced that people are not out to get me, people are more worried about their own lives than about emotionally harming me, most of the time I am not even noticed even if I think I am, and that people looking at me does not mean I'm a bad person.

It's all irrational thoughts. I can write a million things down what are true but still somehow not believe it. That is how bad my paranoia is.

No, I never said that. I said that I wasn't surprised that people didn't want to be around you. People don't generally want to be around relentlessly down people and this is often for their own sense of self-preservation as much as anything else (there are some men who like being around depressed girls if they think they might be able to get sex out of them, but that's another matter). It's not a controversial point I'm making - people used to avoid me when I was depressed, mainly because no-one really wants to hear people telling them their problems repetitively for long periods of time. It engenders a feeling of helplessness and powerlessness as well as making them miserable and that is not something that people, generally, like.

I never said you didn't 'deserve' to have friends. Friends may well appear with a little bit of work when your outlook on life becomes brighter. If you still want online friends, perhaps try depression boards? But, as I say, associating with other depressed people won't help you much.

I never said you were ugly, or that you were wrong for talking about your depression. I said that you were wrong for talking about almost nothing else (either directly or indirectly) for months on end whilst seemingly not doing a great deal to lift yourself out of it.

A lot of the way you're interpreting what I'm saying is down to your own, depressed skewed sense of the world. I've been there so I have some understanding.



You were responding to posts made in another forum. The Haven is really for people's experiences outside WP and in life in general, not to moan about people's experiences intra-forum. If you have a problem with what I've said here, speak to a moderator about it.

Last edited by Tequila on 08 Jan 2012, 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The argument is not that your positive experiences/memories outweigh the negative ones. It's that you should focus on the positives.

This is going to sound ridiculous and childish. But it's like the memory that Harry Potter used to create his patronus. Since dementors are generally accepted to be a metaphor for depression I think it's apt. Focusing on that one happy memory to stop Harry being eating up by dementors.

It works for me, anyway.

You made a not so nice comment about my profile pic, I actually like this picture so I probably won't change it but that seemed like kind of a low blow.

I don't feel all I talk about is depression, so unless you mean I post in kind of a pessimistic manner which makes sense based on how I feel...I am not sure what you'd be referring to. Also so what if I post about that for months, when my posts are specifically about my. Also if I am interpreting what you say wrong then I do apologize, but even other posters here have agreed you where being far to harsh especially for The Haven.

Also last I checked there is no rule that says The Haven is only for experiances outside WP....I posted a thread and was actually in a pretty ok mood for me then a couple people had to make mean comments about me am I supposed to just take it and not care? And likewise if you have a problem with my posts go talk to a moderator but don't come in here to try and rip on me when I'm already as far down as I can be.

Last edited by Sweetleaf on 08 Jan 2012, 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

That's a great example FT! J.K. Rowling really nailed depression in her description of the Dementors.

Well I try, but it never really seems to make me feel better in the long run...I mean I know that should help but it just seems to either make me feel worse. I mean usually what happens is I try to focus on the positives and then end up feeling more depressed because I'm dissapointed about not really being able to really feel good about it. I mean it could be the best day ever and I could be spending it with people I care about doing something I deeply enjoy and I would still feel distant from the moment and unable to fully enjoy the positive emotions that I should feel but seem unable to.

But yeah that is a pretty good metaphor and maybe that sort of thing would work better if all I had was depression, but I think the PTSD really complicates things. I will admit it kinda helps if I wake feeling ok, but if I wake up in the morning already feeling severely depressed not so much.

"I mean it could be the best day ever and I could be spending it with people I care about doing something I deeply enjoy and I would still feel distant from the moment and unable to fully enjoy the positive emotions that I should feel but seem unable to."

I feel this way too, even though my depression is under control. It's really hard to learn to live with AS (and the various co-morbids.) The important thing is that you haven't given up. I still urge you to seek out someone who can offer you medications to help you to not be so depressed.

Well I haven't quite given up on life, but I have kinda given up on trying to improve my mental state...I can't seem to convince myself there is any reason to bother with it.

Lately I've tried to accept that there's a certain level that I'm not going to be able to go beyond. I'm trying to make the best of what I can do and do things that are within my ability. Don't give up on your mental state, its a work in progress.

As I was reading this thread, I began to get progressively angrier at tequila and was thinking of all sorts of harsh truths he himself needed to hear, but then I saw your post and laughed aloud with joy. You cut right down to the core of the issue and minced no words.

b9, I've lurked these forums on and off for years and always thought you were bit strange and didn't always understand what you were trying to say, but now I realize that you are a paragon of humanity.

anxiouspoet: This isn't an unprovoked attack, not at all. In isolation, I'm sure it could be seen that way but I can assure you, it's not. There has been a long build-up to this. Check out her posting history.

My issue wasn't with her being depressed or even posting about it here and I'm often very understanding and helpful towards people in trouble and have offered her reassurance a few times in the past (and I've been depressed myself, a few times quite badly). My issue was with her unrelenting, simpering, debilitating negativity. It was the fact that she never seems to see anything positive about the world or her life in the many months I've read her posts and seems unwilling to reconsider changing her view. When I was depressed I tried to make a point of keeping as much of it off the boards as I possibly could as I realised that not many people wanted to read about my angst day after day. At the end of the day, the only person that can fix depression is the person themselves, aided by the right medication and a more positive outlook on life, combined with removing oneself from the stressors if that is an option.

I suggested that a depression forum might well be a good hangout for her but she probably wouldn't receive the attention she needs there as there would be so many more just like her.

Right, I'm off to polish my SS issued steel toe-capped boots.

Tequila, you made your point and clarified it. although you backed off from your original stance, i can't see any benefit to you saying anything further here.

b9, if you see a situation where you think someone needs protection, please let the mods know instead of telling a member to f**k off because breaking the rules to help someone isn't going to help anybody in the end.

You've backed off your harsh tone as the thread has progressed, but it doesn't change that you were being a bully in your first few posts.
Even though I just recently made an account I have been on these forums for a while. I've seen Sweetleaf's posts.
But somehow your posts in this thread bothered me way more than Sweetleaf's ever did.

Well my mental state has not improved in many months, so yeah I have a rather negative view of the world that is not abnormal especially with the depression and PTSD those kind kind of put a damper on ones enjoyment of life. I am not going to pretend I'm doing better and act more positive just because some people feel annoyed by my posts.

Also where am I supposed to get any support if not even a support forum is the appropriate place to look for any?...I am sick of everyone expecting me to just continue bottling everything up regardless of how much pain it causes for me because they would prefer not to hear me complain when things suck.

And I've already explained what happened with trying meds, I'm not willing to go through that again....I don't really trust the system enough to let the mental health professionals screw around with my brain trying to re-arrange me till they think I'm sane. I'm screwed up enough I don't need people I don't trust screwing around with my brain chemistry. I am probably not going to get a more positive outlook on life unless life becomes more positive. Not to mention even if I did fix my depression I've got anxiety and PTSD to go along with it.....I am at the point where I would just perfer to cope with it I'm sick of trying to fight it.

I think really what it comes down to is the anhedonia that is associated with depression makes it difficult for the positives to feel very positive. It's pretty clear to me that a lot of people don't understand how this is, or if they did at one point it passed and they don't remember what it was like. The most poetic analogy I can give is asking someone to enjoy the sweetness of a frosted peace of cake when they are feeling nauseous. When someone is feeling down the natural tendency is to look for problems so that the situation can be altered. That's why positive thinking doesn't appeal and seems artificial, like it has to be faked. Or you can think, but any associated positive emotion is missing. If anything, being told that one should be thinking positive - as if this will provide relief to overwhelming negative feelings as if by the flick of a switch, and the person simply can't do it in the moment - all that does is reinforce the feeling of futility and helplessness. Part of it is there is an implied moral judgement in the word should. If people really did have such direct control of their emotions there would never be any need for anyone to use artificial substances to alter their mood.

From first hand experience I can tell you that for many people it simply isn't realistic to expect them to be able to philosophize their way out of being depressed though positive thinking. I'm not saying it can't work for some people. I'm just saying it isn't likely to work when there's hard wired brain chemistry involved. So trying to shove it down people's throats is counterproductive, especially when you state your case using a bunch of pejorative judgmental language. I'd say the best approach is not try and force yourself to think positive when you're in distress, but rather just acknowledge the feeling and try to think in more neutral terms. I think it's possible to avoid negative ruminations without having to ignore and bottle up your true feelings or lie to yourself that the world is all butterflies and cupcakes. Probably the best approach is distraction and finding better things to do, usually idle times are the worst. In any case action usually works better than thought. Trying to think your way out of feeling depressed is usually an exercise in futility.

I also don't think there's anything wrong with venting every once in a while. Sometimes for me there is a tipping point beyond which I can't successfully distract myself or engage in any activity without first getting certain things out.

I'm going to be honest here. You do have a victim mentality and it really isn't productive towards solving your problems. I can't completely hold it against you since it isn't just whining for the sake of whining but that you genuinely believe your life is outside of your grip. s**t, I've always felt that way and still do to some extent which is why I still struggle with being depressed from time to time. However, you've got to take a more active role in challenging your perceptions, even if you do honestly believe them.

I'm not saying blow smoke up your ass since that can easily backfire, but that you should be willing to accept uncertainty rather than just jump to conclusions. Every situation has tons of blanks and letting your negative beliefs uncritically fill all the blanks in is what causes people to have a cynical and gloomy perspective. Fear stems from uncertainty, and my theory is that depression is a defense mechanism to uncertainty. Why let uncertainty linger when it's much easier to be dead certain that your negative beliefs are true? If you want to take control of your life, you'll have to take the hard way and accept uncertainty rather than just letting your negative beliefs fill every blank in.

Life isn't all sunshine and rainbows nor is it all darkness and thunderstorms. Life is all smog and we tend to assume what's behind the smog to the point where we make sunshine or darkness out of it to give ourselves a false sense of certainty.

Last edited by AceOfSpades on 08 Jan 2012, 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.