Suicide is painless

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Lol, what? No right for a person to decide their own day and time? Moral equivalency between one's own liberty and that of others? You making me worry a little here... as in, you're not going.....leftist....on us are you?

DARN RIGHT!! ! It's just as liberally important as owning a firearm

I am very critical about suicide. I don't have nice opinions about it. But I don't think they are sociopaths or narcissists. I stay out of suicide threads because I don't have anything nice to say nor do I know how to support the person. I have been suicidal myself but never did it. I used to talk about killing myself all the time and I look back and imagine how I must have looked manipulative and an attention seeker so I no longer mention it. I keep it to myself. Last time I felt like killing myself was when I had a miscarriage but I knew if I did that, I would have hurt my husband and my family and I would have had no way of having a kid the because I'd be dead. So I had to live through the pain and try again and hope I can have a kid. I also know back in my teens I used to mention about killing myself as a way to vent my frustrations. I now realize how bad that may have looked and no wonder people and teachers get mad at me about it. I couldn't have expressed myself in a better way or not express myself at all? Now I have that as a no no.

I think fnord was very honest to mention his opinion about suicide. Maybe he was aware that it would offend people but posted it anyway or maybe he wasn't aware and he posted it. Maybe he has had friends or a family member or someone he cared about have committed it and it left him in pain. I have never lost anyone to suicide but I have heard stories about people doing it and how much pain people be left in who cared about them. I have heard when people try and commit suicide by jumping in front of cars or something, it also effects that person badly they end up in therapy. There was a guy who tried to commit suicide by driving onto the train tracks and then he changed his mind at the last minute but the train hit his car and lot of people died and he lived. He was then possibly facing the death penalty and I thought then at age 16 (or maybe older) at least he is getting what he wants, death. Anyone remember that story?

Only time I don't mind suicide is when the person is making a huge sacrifice to save lives or if the person is in psychical pain and it's permanent or the person is going to die anyway so they kill themselves before that even happens. And sometimes I am just neutral about it.


I know OOM's intent was to get people out of doing it if they ever think of it. Make them think rationally like I did when I lost the baby and how suicide can effect people. I think bully is another over used word and what she was doing wasn't bullying. Even people with eating disorders will say people bully them to eat when all they are doing is telling them they need to eat or they won't have energy to do things or even think properly to do their school work and they would hurt their bodies. I notice people will use the word bully when people are using encouragement or trying to get the person to realize something. I think it's more accurate if people just say "I felt bullied when they tried to get me to eat" "I always feel bullied when people try and talk me out of suicide." That just means they feel that way but they full well know the person isn't bullying them but it feels that way. Since they be correct about how they feel, they be incorrect if they said they were being bullied than saying they felt bullied.

Thank you.


Yes, that's it. If I concerned myself with whether or not someone would be offended by a post that was not directed at them, then I would never post anything on any website at any time. The only alternative seems to be to agree with everyone all of the time.


This too. The less said about them, the better.


Bullying includes (but is not limited to) using violence or threats of violence to hurt or intimidate others. It also includes name-calling and profanity. In fact, harassment is a subset of bullying behavior - or so the psychologists from HR have said to us at work.

i wanted to post in this thread as i have some personal experience here. my mother committed suicide on december 2, 2010.

but this thread is angry and argumentative and judgemental. people are talking in abstract notions and pushing their agendas (i.e. as the depressed or the recovered, etc.), but this is a subject that involves real people - the suicidal ones, the dead, and the survivors.

amidst all the vitriol, i'd ask people to remember that this is the Haven, where people come for solace and advice, and not PPR. be respectful and tone it down.

I apologize, but I'm afraid I don't quite understand what you mean when you say you think the opposite of what I said is true. Perhaps you could clarify what you meant? What you said above doesn't really seem all that incongruous with what I was saying. I agree with you, that the way to effectively defuse a bully is to stay unmoved by their words and their actions, and not let them get in your head. You can call it toughness if you want, or strength, or coolness, or detachment, or maintaining one's rationality. Whatever you call it, it's an effective self-defense mechanism. But I wasn't speaking about that. I was talking about malice and aggression, either toward specific people, or in general. If it's true that emotional detachment is the key to confounding a bully, then anger and antipathy, by virtue of being emotions, are responses that play into what the bully wants. In my experience, the bully isn't all that discerning about which negative emotion he or she provokes. It could be sadness, or it could be fear, or it could be anger-- but so long as you're deviating from who and what you are naturally, you are focused on the bully and not yourself, and thus you are giving the bully power over you. Even cold detachment, when it is indiscriminate, can end up causing you more harm than good in the long run. That's why I say strength and sensitivity aren't mutually exclusive-- strength is important for one's self-preservation, but if you let yourself harden completely and become untrusting and numb and insensitive to the world around you, then you have let the bullies take from you something far more precious and deeply felt than the temporary rise they were initially seeking. In my opinion, true strength necessitates exercising discretion, and being able to tell which reaction-- the shield and dagger or the olive branch-- is appropriate in any given circumstance.

And for the record, I'm not offended by anything that Fnord has said thus far. I disagree with him on several points, and I believe what he has said is rather unhelpful to people who are trying to cope with suicidal ideation (and what is the point of The Haven, if not to provide help and support to those in need?). But that's his prerogative. What he has said here is his personal perspective, and I respect that.

From what I have noticed online, people who are very sensitive attract bullies. Bullies like to hurt people and inflict pain on them so they target the weak and that be over sensitive people. So I find that if I play the tough girl and not react and act like I don't care, they might just go away. I also learn to be careful how I express myself and react. If someone does start picking on me, they have maybe picked up somehow I am sensitive in some ways so they are trying to bully me but I would rather just ignore them. Plus I take people less seriously if I see them do it to others. I don't take it as personal because it has nothing to do with me and I am just random, not someone specific they chose.

You said that "From my personal standpoint, though-- I have been angry, and I have tried being insensitive, and it doesn't work for me. I see it as too big a sacrifice, too much of a distraction from living my life... and moreover, I see it, in a way, as continuing to give power to my former abusers" so I said the opposite is true. I don't think it gives power to the abusers. It just takes it away from them. But it seems like we were both on different pages. You were thinking of something else and I thought of bullies. I think bullying is abusing other people. But I can also see what you mean now when you say how they get power over you. It changes your personality and how you function rather it was in a good way or bad way.

As to what Sweetleaf and Fnord both said. I like both of you and have been equally frustrated with both of you for different reasons.

I've been frustrated with Sweetleaf cause I want to help her but I just can't seem to. I identify with a lot of what she says. I have been in lots of similar moods or situations. I don't get frustrated with her so much as I do my inability to come up with something that might work for her.

I got frustrated with Fnord cause he insinuated I was trailer trash on that one thread and I'm not. Never lived in a trailer ever, but trashiness is sorta negotiable.

I like them both. I would PM them but I don't know what to say.

I think they both have valid points on many things.

Sweetleaf points I agree with are that things suck. A lot. And sometimes I want someone to come in and because they care about me, make it better. It's not the making it better part I'm so caught up in at the time, it's the because they care about me part. Hell when I get as depressed as she is right now, I'd be glad if somebody just came in and tried to make it better, even if they inadverdantly made it worse. What would help to me, at that point, is just knowing somebody cared.

Fnords points are usually "grow the <cussword> up!" I agree with that too. My very best friends in high school were the ones who actually MADE ME grow the cussword up. I did not want to. It does however, work. Here's an example of it working, and it does combine both of those posters points I suppose.

Once, in my 20s I was very, very down. Clinically depressed but not dx'd at the time. I went to Windy's house at about 3am, went inside (they didn't lock their doors, ever) and got in her bed. I did not get out of it except to pee for about a week. She brought me food and Dr Pepper. That didn't help really. What finally helped was one day she said ENOUGH of this! I'm TIRED of this, and she literally put her feet on my back, pushed me out of the bed and refused to let me back in. She went in the bathroom and ran a tub for me. Told me I was getting in it, cause I can't be all nasty in her house, I kept saying "Why you being like this?" Her answer was an angry yell of "Cause you ruining your life, and I ain't gonna have it!"

She did have a point.

She made me get cleaned up.

She made me go back home.

She made me call that one guy I dated before and get him to take me to Turkey Creeck (redneck version of the range). Yeah, take a real depressed person to a remote place and give them a gun. It SOUNDS like a bad idea but the genius of Windy was that she knew what helped who. I got out there all not caring about shooting my own gun, then he put the M16 in my hands. I became a Vally Girl. Really? OH MY GOD! It was fun. I even jumped up off the ground cause it was so fun. (This was like shooter video games but in real life and also you only shoot rocks, targets, cans, and rats)

That in itself did NOT get me out of my depression. But, being forced to make myself act like a grownup, and having people that cared, helped me realize that I wasn't all that bad off.

Now she did "bully" me into that. But I'm glad she did. When I say bully I mean she stood there with her hand raised like a Mom does it, saying "I will knock the cussword out of you if you don't do this right now, and I MEAN IT!" So, to avoid being hit by her (which hurts, we once as 12 yo's fought over a big bag of Munchos potato chips, I lost) I did it.

It's not bullying if you have somebody else's best interests at heart.

I don't know what the point of my post was. I'm not really all there mentally at the moment. But I'd rather have somebody come up to me and say, however wrong they may be or however uncaring they sound, to get off my ass and do something, or even to point out other hard facts about my own choices, than I would like to be coddled.

I think Sweetleaf just needs to know that people care about her, and I think Fnord just needs people to know that he does care.

That ain't gonna be easy, but it's doable.

This has all been very negative and biased. Nobody has even thought to ask the opinions of those who have committed suicide. Perhaps if we were to get their side of the story, we could give an unbiased opinion. Won't the dead please speak up?

Jesus, they are f*****g dead and I bet the don't like it either!

Oh, was that sarcasm?

I bet they don't not like it.

This is the most ret*d thing I've ever heard. Lol














(no two ways about it)

The_Perfect_Storm and anonymous-shyster, you didn't heed my reminder. i was hoping to keep this thread open.