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Subtle and Blatant Misogyny

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GoonSquad
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10 Feb 2013, 3:28 pm

hanyo wrote:
GoonSquad wrote:

Personally, I think these people need sex therapy.... but that would take a huge change in the culture. Sex is a basic biological need. Everybody needs a way to "get some" in a healthy, safe setting.


I don't think sex is a need, at least not for everyone. I haven't had sex since 1995 and don't want it or miss it and I know other people that haven't had sex in a long time and have no interest in it.


Sure, people are different....

I think as a rule, the younger you are the more urgent the need is, male or female.

Personally, even before my medical problems, my need for sex had diminished to the point that the stress of maintaining relationships was not worth getting sex on a regular basis...

I chose peace and tranquility over sex and drama.... But as a younger man, I would not have made that choice! :twisted:

The thing is, I cannot imagine how life is for guys who have never had sex at all. It must be maddening for a young guy in his 20s, 30s... I know the dry spells were bad enough for me.

PS

I guess we're getting a bit off the original topic here...

My apologies to the OP. :oops:


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rabbittss
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10 Feb 2013, 6:27 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
i don't think sex is a need, i think it is a desire. not everyone reproduces (not even in the animal kingdom), so although the drive is there, it will not always come to fruition. that is life. i think that teaching people to cope with that will go a lot farther than pandering to their sense of entitlement.


Isn't that a bit like saying we should just teach people who need organ transplants to cope since that's life.. they got dealt a s**t hand.. so sad too bad.



hyperlexian
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10 Feb 2013, 6:28 pm

rabbittss wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i don't think sex is a need, i think it is a desire. not everyone reproduces (not even in the animal kingdom), so although the drive is there, it will not always come to fruition. that is life. i think that teaching people to cope with that will go a lot farther than pandering to their sense of entitlement.


Isn't that a bit like saying we should just teach people who need organ transplants to cope since that's life.. they got dealt a sh** hand.. so sad too bad.

no, it isn't. that is quite unrelated and hyperbolic, actually.


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Yuugiri
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10 Feb 2013, 6:35 pm

If sex was a need, asexual people wouldn't exist, yes?


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rabbittss
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10 Feb 2013, 6:38 pm

in some countries, if I were to travel there and die there.. they could harvest my organs and give them away regardless of if I have "Organ doner" on my drivers license cause they have a Law that says it's mandatory.. So they feel an entitlement to my organs regardless of if I want to donate them.

Granted, they aren't out killing people and taking them, Yet, but clearly people who need transplants feel entitled to receive transplants.. even though they know that basically requires some one else to die for them to get them.

I mean, if Sex drive is controlled by a deep enough part of the brain.. then it's not that far removed from the totally unoncious levels of systems control such as organ function..

Now, Ice Cream, is not a "Need" it's a "Want".. But Sex is like Air and Water and Food, and Properly regulated Organ Function, and Cell Respiration. The WHOLE point of your cells not saying 'f**k this noise, I'm going over there" is because by banding together they can reproduce better.



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10 Feb 2013, 6:42 pm

now you're getting silly. there is no actual connection between organ donation and sex, and i think i've already made my point as well as i can so i'll exit that part of the discussion.

Yuugiri wrote:
If sex was a need, asexual people wouldn't exist, yes?

yes, and we simply couldn't survive without it.


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Janissy
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10 Feb 2013, 6:43 pm

rabbittss wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i don't think sex is a need, i think it is a desire. not everyone reproduces (not even in the animal kingdom), so although the drive is there, it will not always come to fruition. that is life. i think that teaching people to cope with that will go a lot farther than pandering to their sense of entitlement.


Isn't that a bit like saying we should just teach people who need organ transplants to cope since that's life.. they got dealt a sh** hand.. so sad too bad.


Although it's hyperbole, I think this analogy does work because both situations require the use of somebody else's body.

People who need an organ transplant do get put on a waiting list. BUT they do have to just wait and cope until somebody who is tissue compatible dies. There is nothing else they can do to speed that process up. They have to just wait. And they may die waiting. They are not allowed to hasten anybody else's death in order to free up organs for themselves. And if they start complaining about how much they hate other people with healthy organs who refuse to die- and also refuse to donate one of a pair (such as a kidney)- people won't think highly of them. There is no term for this analogous to misogyny because it isn't very prevalent (although I am sure there must be a few people out there who react this way just because it's statistically likely) but if it was a common reaction there would be a word for it.

Needing organs is real and sex drive is real, but in both cases you aren't entitled to anybody else's body to fulfill that need- it must be voluntarily given and they aren't a bad person if they don't give it.



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10 Feb 2013, 6:46 pm

Janissy wrote:
rabbittss wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i don't think sex is a need, i think it is a desire. not everyone reproduces (not even in the animal kingdom), so although the drive is there, it will not always come to fruition. that is life. i think that teaching people to cope with that will go a lot farther than pandering to their sense of entitlement.


Isn't that a bit like saying we should just teach people who need organ transplants to cope since that's life.. they got dealt a sh** hand.. so sad too bad.


Although it's hyperbole, I think this analogy does work because both situations require the use of somebody else's body.

People who need an organ transplant do get put on a waiting list. BUT they do have to just wait and cope until somebody who is tissue compatible dies. There is nothing else they can do to speed that process up. They have to just wait. And they may die waiting. They are not allowed to hasten anybody else's death in order to free up organs for themselves. And if they start complaining about how much they hate other people with healthy organs who refuse to die- and also refuse to donate one of a pair (such as a kidney)- people won't think highly of them. There is no term for this analogous to misogyny because it isn't very prevalent (although I am sure there must be a few people out there who react this way just because it's statistically likely) but if it was a common reaction there would be a word for it.

Needing organs is real and sex drive is real, but in both cases you aren't entitled to anybody else's body to fulfill that need- it must be voluntarily given and they aren't a bad person if they don't give it.

one is a requirement in order to live, and the other is a desire. they are not parallel.


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10 Feb 2013, 6:49 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
now you're getting silly. there is no actual connection between organ donation and sex, and i think i've already made my point as well as i can so i'll exit that part of the discussion.

Yuugiri wrote:
If sex was a need, asexual people wouldn't exist, yes?

yes, and we simply couldn't survive without it.


Sex is a need, Asexual people are a fluke, just like Albinos.



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10 Feb 2013, 6:50 pm

rabbittss wrote:
in some countries, if I were to travel there and die there.. they could harvest my organs and give them away regardless of if I have "Organ doner" on my drivers license cause they have a Law that says it's mandatory.. So they feel an entitlement to my organs regardless of if I want to donate them.

Granted, they aren't out killing people and taking them, Yet, but clearly people who need transplants feel entitled to receive transplants.. even though they know that basically requires some one else to die for them to get them.



That is where this analogy does actually hold up. Although it is apparently legal in these countries to simply take a person's organs even if they didn't want to donate them after death I don't think it's ethical. It is something that I think should be freely given, not just taken as an entitlement. I can' think of a name to describe thinking you should just be able to get a person's organs after they die even if they said "no" but there must be some sort of greek/english hybrid that would describe that entitelment analogous to misogyny.



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10 Feb 2013, 6:53 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
Janissy wrote:
rabbittss wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i don't think sex is a need, i think it is a desire. not everyone reproduces (not even in the animal kingdom), so although the drive is there, it will not always come to fruition. that is life. i think that teaching people to cope with that will go a lot farther than pandering to their sense of entitlement.


Isn't that a bit like saying we should just teach people who need organ transplants to cope since that's life.. they got dealt a sh** hand.. so sad too bad.


Although it's hyperbole, I think this analogy does work because both situations require the use of somebody else's body.

People who need an organ transplant do get put on a waiting list. BUT they do have to just wait and cope until somebody who is tissue compatible dies. There is nothing else they can do to speed that process up. They have to just wait. And they may die waiting. They are not allowed to hasten anybody else's death in order to free up organs for themselves. And if they start complaining about how much they hate other people with healthy organs who refuse to die- and also refuse to donate one of a pair (such as a kidney)- people won't think highly of them. There is no term for this analogous to misogyny because it isn't very prevalent (although I am sure there must be a few people out there who react this way just because it's statistically likely) but if it was a common reaction there would be a word for it.

Needing organs is real and sex drive is real, but in both cases you aren't entitled to anybody else's body to fulfill that need- it must be voluntarily given and they aren't a bad person if they don't give it.

one is a requirement in order to live, and the other is a desire. they are not parallel.


The parallel is not in the relative need. The parallel is in the use of another person's body and thinking you are entitled to that use rather than seeing it as something others choose to give or not. Stealing somebody's kidney is analogous to rape in this context.



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10 Feb 2013, 6:53 pm

rabbittss wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
now you're getting silly. there is no actual connection between organ donation and sex, and i think i've already made my point as well as i can so i'll exit that part of the discussion.

Yuugiri wrote:
If sex was a need, asexual people wouldn't exist, yes?

yes, and we simply couldn't survive without it.


Sex is a need, Asexual people are a fluke, just like Albinos.

no, it is not a need. many people go many years (or even a lifetime) without it and are perfectly fine - without being asexual. they still have the desire, but for other reasons do not have sex. they do not die from lack of sex. some (not all) people may get depressed and suicidal over the lack of it, but people kill themselves over kittens on the internet, so that isn't saying much.

if it is a need, then it must be a universal need for all people, and it is not.


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rabbittss
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10 Feb 2013, 6:55 pm

I thought you were done with this conversation?



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10 Feb 2013, 7:01 pm

Janissy wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Janissy wrote:
rabbittss wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i don't think sex is a need, i think it is a desire. not everyone reproduces (not even in the animal kingdom), so although the drive is there, it will not always come to fruition. that is life. i think that teaching people to cope with that will go a lot farther than pandering to their sense of entitlement.


Isn't that a bit like saying we should just teach people who need organ transplants to cope since that's life.. they got dealt a sh** hand.. so sad too bad.


Although it's hyperbole, I think this analogy does work because both situations require the use of somebody else's body.

People who need an organ transplant do get put on a waiting list. BUT they do have to just wait and cope until somebody who is tissue compatible dies. There is nothing else they can do to speed that process up. They have to just wait. And they may die waiting. They are not allowed to hasten anybody else's death in order to free up organs for themselves. And if they start complaining about how much they hate other people with healthy organs who refuse to die- and also refuse to donate one of a pair (such as a kidney)- people won't think highly of them. There is no term for this analogous to misogyny because it isn't very prevalent (although I am sure there must be a few people out there who react this way just because it's statistically likely) but if it was a common reaction there would be a word for it.

Needing organs is real and sex drive is real, but in both cases you aren't entitled to anybody else's body to fulfill that need- it must be voluntarily given and they aren't a bad person if they don't give it.

one is a requirement in order to live, and the other is a desire. they are not parallel.


The parallel is not in the relative need. The parallel is in the use of another person's body and thinking you are entitled to that use rather than seeing it as something others choose to give or not. Stealing somebody's kidney is analogous to rape in this context.

i see what you mean, but there could be better analogies that do not diminish the experiences of people who are actually dying as they wait for an organ donation. it IS interesting that they wait in patient dignity instead of posting angrily on forums, spewing hate against all of the people who have their organs intact. yet this is what we see here. why the different reaction?


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10 Feb 2013, 7:03 pm

rabbittss wrote:
I thought you were done with this conversation?

i don't think i responded to that conversation with you anymore, did i? we talked about something else, no? :scratch:


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10 Feb 2013, 7:11 pm

You will not die if you do not have sex. It's not a need.


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