Wars... and how to talk to children?

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Yes.
The original Russians were Kievans and Novgorodians - the latter were massacred by Ivan IV. Wonder if this also was "more complex"...
"Great Russia" could never stand different concepts of of Ruthenian identity and politics.

Oh yeah, the Russians are historical mutts, no doubt about that. And the history is indeed rather complex...

I do find the charge of 21st-century imperialism rather silly. The NATO war machine got bored and made an enemy for itself, to keep things interesting, so to speak. Now we have this.

One country full-scale invades another country and you "find the charge of 21st-century imperialism rather silly".

You keep not answering my question: why? Were are the foundations of your position?
I'm clear about mine.

Pure and simple, Putin wants to return to the boundaries of the USSR—then go from there.

He’s ex-KGB. He believes in autocracy.

His mindset is just like the Tsars.

There have been massive protests to the Ukranian invasion in Russia with many arrests. I give them credit for that.

I only wish we had that kind of movement in the U.S., but sadly, nobody seems to care about America's wars.

I don't know what his deal is. Rumor has it even his cabinet thought the troop build-up on the border was a bluff.

Indeed it's an armed conflict over something that should have been solved through a political process. I guess Zelensky hadn't seen The Godfather recently.

If it were me, I'd tell them that I'd protect and keep them safe, and they don't need to worry about it. I'd make sure to appear calm but certain when saying this. It doesn't matter if you feel like you can do it or not (you can), rather they need that feeling of protection there. Kids are quite good at picking up on how their parents are feeling, so I'd be "strong" for them in this context.

The whys don't matter to kids that much (nor do they really matter to adults that much in the end, as the outcome doesn't change; only the fighting is what matters, and it's almost always over something useless).

Putin is an unprincipled person.

He's an "ends justifies the means" type. He'll say anything under the Sun in order to gain some advantage. This trait is why Donald Trump admires him so, and believes he is "smart." And why ex-US Secretary of State Pompeo called him a clever statesman.

He spoke of a "genocide" of Russian speakers in the far-eastern portion of Ukraine which was demonstrably not true.

He's spoken so many demonstrative untruths in the lead-up to the present war.

I would take anything Putin says with more than a smidgen of salt.

We have to get out of the Autocratic mindset, so Mankind could evolve further.

We don't need Putin/Trump types in any position of leadership.

Imagine.....if, somehow, antiwar Russians could expand their movement and threaten Putin's hold on the government?

Weirder things have happened...

There's been a grassroots ultranationalist movement in Ukraine that the US was able to successfully tap into to make the Maidan coup materialize. The ultranationalist danced far too close to Bandera/Nazi loving for comfort... It was certainly not a good look for Ukraine. You may disagree, but that bit isn't as important.

What's important is what will happen after the military defeat. The ultranationalism will go absolutely full tilt, embracing some of the ugliest parts of their history. It will cost them their soul.

I've been close to it, including even listening to interviews with Ukrainian self-identified nationalists. Well, hard not get this group loud when your country is losing important parts of the land.

So, in short, someone told you Ukrainians were Nazis?

They were loud before the annexation that followed the coup. Besides, to the best of my knowledge Crimea wasn't even a part of Ukraine during the Nazi & Bandera years, not until 1954 long after liberation or retaking, from whichever point of view you may look at it. There is no historical context for it before that.


There are among them, and they've been very vocal. Sadly too many of their countrymen readily embrace or support them in the effort for independence...

It will only get worse.

Last edited by r00tb33r on 25 Feb 2022, 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I don't know where you get your information from - I've been talking to Ukrainians and Russians in verious circumstances for the last 20 years.

Russians are ready to accuse others of being Nazi but if you heard them talking about them and other nations... things that I heard on Russian trains could not have been repeated anywhere here without causing outrage.

So if you believe Ukrainians are Nazi and Russians are not, you're very poorly informed.

I edited my post.

No. Like I said, not picking sides here. It's just hard to see where the "good guys" are.

My teenage daughter and most of her classmates don't give a single thought to the war in Ukraine.

Good guys - maybe you can have some point. No one on Earth is a saint.
Bad guys - I have no doubt. I mean, invading another country because you don't like their election results is f*****g evil and there's nothing sophisticated about it.