A form of genocide? I think so.

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there are dumbasses out there and there always will be. If this is waht you belive then that is fine it is a free country, but you cannot stop people from doing that. They will do it regardless since they do not care and you can not make them care. They will have to want to care which I doubt they will.

Glad to hear the good news harvester52.

And I'd like to invite all those who want to debate philosophy and religion to go to the Politics, Philosophy and Religion forum. That's why it's there.

This is the Haven. It's not the place to insult people.

It's actually the Brave Little Toaster.

Oops... yeah thats what i was thinking of..



who wouldnt want a talking toaster

... Someone said Genocide and I got momentarily interested, but it turns out this is just some nonsense about farm implements being anthorpomorphised. Lame. ¬_¬

This is The Haven, dumbass.

Find someplace else to brag about your superior intellect.

Maybe you'll find somebody even dumber than you and they'll be impressed.

I am not expressing or implying an insult, so none should be inferred. Only the facts are stated below.

1) The burden of proof lies solely with the person making the assertion.

2) Negative assertions cannot be proven, because if something is absent it would not be there to prove its absence.

:: Thus, failure to provide proof for the assertion renders that assertion invalid.

...

To present an argument for an assertion in the form of, "You can not prove that my assertion is false, therefore it must be true" is called the Fallacy of Appeal to Ignorance, which is also known a "Argument by Lack of Imagination".

In other words, arguing that machines have souls simply because there is no proof to the contrary is a fallacy, and the assertion is rendered invalid by by virtue of fallacious argument.

I apologize if presenting these facts inspires people to feel offended.

...

So I'm asking now, please provide quantified and verifiable proof that machines have souls ... something that anyone can observe and/or measure in any machine ... something other than mere belief ... something that clearly indicates magnitude and value of their soul, as well.

I'd like to see a method whereby the size and quality of a soul can be determined. An example would be the old alignment chart from the first edition of the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons game, where "Good" and "Evil" were represented along the vertical axis, and "Law" versus "Chaos" were represented along the horizontal.

"Maturity" would also be a good qualitative measure, as would "Health". Something like:

John Deere 635F
Year: 2004
Serial number: H00000F000000

Good/Evil: +25%
Chaos/Law: +33%
Maturity: 70%
Health: 98%

Can you do that for me, please?

Thank you.

That's not the point of this thread. I'll gladly debate that elsewhere, but this was me posting about something that was troubling me in my life with hopes for maybe a mere pat on the back, or a "It'll be alright, BC".

I'm not the type that needs scientific fact for everything. I'm a very spiritual person. It's just how I am. I'm sorry if it bothers you, but this thread was not meant for debate as others have said. If you'd like to go into a debate like that, put it in the religion and politics forum.

Stay with it harvester52.

I think your concerns makes perfect sense.

I guess there's a lot of aspies who can't respect people who look at the world differently from them. I find that kind of sad.

This is a gathering pool for the weak.
It is a little huggy place for people to be reassured that it is alright to be pathetic, weak and worthless.... while ignoring the bitter truth that weak people with high aspirations are invariably let down.

And it is rather ironic to start throwing around such judgements of my intellect when technically you know very little about me and have no reliable evidence to suggest any validity to your claims. It is a method more often employed by the idiots themselves.
Take that as you will, meatbag*.




[* = Unless you can, and I doubt it, prove that you're metallic in nature.]

Why do you have to be rude to people? What comes of it? I really want to know. Does me having my own beliefs that differ from yours make it O.K. to be an ass to me or those that defend me?

I wish there was a way to lock this thread because, apparently, even those who are different themselves cannot handle those different from them.

Am I hurting anybody by posting that I was sad because a combine in my area was being sent to a demolition derby? Or by ranting a little about how much I hate demolition derbies? Perhaps you run demolition derbies and that's why you're angry at me. I'm not sure... whatever it is, I'm innocent of any crime.

I'm not stupid. I'm not ignorant. My beliefs simply vary from your own. You are no better than a fundamentalist Christian who rudely shoves his beliefs upon everybody around him.

I thought this (WP in general) of all places would be a place where people would be accepting, and understanding of my views... because I know there are a lot of fellow aspies out there who feel the same way about their machinery.

If there are any moderators around, I request that this thread be locked.

Thank you.

-BC

it sounds to me that some people just dont understand that some aspies are a bit attached to an object in their interest and treat the said object as it were a good friend or pet, such as you calling the combine JD66 and referring to it as a he, dont feel bad, there are people out there that name and refer to their cars as having a gender and a name,

to me i just think its just another way that aspies could open up and communicate with outside world and to have some sort of social life or try their social life on pets or machinery without harming others or embarrassing the heck out themselves for saying or doing the wrong thing, so they redirect it towards the object, being with aspies its really hard to have a girl/boyfriend, so some they perfer to have their picture taken with their mechanical friend no matter if its a door closer, a computer, JD66 (harvester52's favorite combine) i hope this better explains why some aspies treat inanimate objects as they were alive. i dont see anything wrong with the behavior unless its done in public and people dont understand why.

if it bothers anyone out there about harvester's worry and concern about machines distroying eachother then just ignore it and post somewere else (i know im not a mod or a boss here) but like the saying goes, if you have nothing nice or supportive to say, then dont say it. haven is just not a place to flame and start arguements in, its a place to support and help people with their worries or problems

harvester52, if you want you can pm me

For what it is worth... it is less that I'm being rude, and more that society has built on you certain expectation of behaviour for others.
Essentially... you're taking certain non-essential behavioural patterns for granted... and it just so happens that I haven't ever adhered to them. I am a follower of the natural way. I prey on weakness and consume it. That is who I am at a core level.

It isn't anything personal in the slightest, if that reassures you at all.
My real question is: Why should you care what I think or say? I'm nobody you know, and not important to your existence in any way... so why would you let me have any influence? Why do you choose to leave yourself vulnerable?




Aside from it being unrealistic to expect people to relate to this issue of yours in particular.... my initial contribution was simply a disappointment at the lack of ACTUAL genocide being mentioned. However, someone along the way insisted on prodding me.



Except that:
#1. I do it ironically.
#2. My modus operandum isn't nonsensical.



Just because we might relate to some aspects of your existence doesn't mean we'd relate to all of them....
And for that matter, just because YOU personally have difficulty coping with certain things being levelled at you doesn't mean any portion of the world outside your own body is obligated to bow down and protect you from your own inadequacies.

Maybe all you need is the oppurtunity for strength... for as it stands your choice of words indicates to me that you run away from your problems and seek to remain sheltered.



But anyhow.
You want this closed for one reason or other, and I'm not going to argue with that. It is your thread afterall.




.... Weird.

I do the opposite.
I suppose I objectify everything, including myself.

Suppose that is part of how I'm at odds with everyone?

I am of the type that lives for scientific inquiry - the Scientific Method is as much of an obsession for me as pron is for a perv (albeit sans erotica), and I am very much attached to my data base and research equipment.

I am also a very methodical and technical person. This is how I am, and I make no apologies for it. I am not trying to force a debate, I am trying to lay groundwork for an investigation into the concept of having a "Soul".

If you can provide insight into this inquiry, then your help will be greatly appreciated.

If you can not - or will not, then I will seek and secure collaboration elsewhere.

Either way, it will be alright, B.C.

Hugs.

Sorry harvester52, this is your thread, after all, and maybe I'm throwing gasoline on a fire you'd like to see fizzle out.

Hey Fnord

That's a thoughtful and respectful expression of a different point of view.

The way I see it, and this is just me, I love science, it reveals a lot of fascinating things we would otherwise have no way of knowing about, but I think it has it's limits.

I'd be heartbroken if somebody I cared about died, but the fact is that nobody is immortal, so everybody will die. There's no logical reason for me to feel that way, but these kinds of feelings are so intrinsic to my view of life and the world that I wouldn't be able to consider them irrelevant simply because they aren't logical.

In fact, I'd consider them to be a piece a piece of data so significant that they cannot legitimately be ignored.

On a less personal, more objective note, I believe that the human brain is the product of evolution, just like the human foot, and that logic is a sequence of electrical events among the neurons of the human brain.

The evolutionary selection pressure that designed the structure of the human brain was for survival and reproduction in a dangerous world. The human brain was not designed by nature as an instrument for discovering and understanding fundamental reality.

If you use a tool for something it wasn't designed for, you usually don't get very good results. If you use a bowling ball to hammer nails, you'll probably just damage what you're trying to build.

So I don't think it's logical to assume that logic is an adequate approach to understanding reality.

Life is a phenomenon so commonplace it seems routine, but the fact that it's so commonplace, the incredible tenacity of an anti-entropic process, covering everyplace from deep ocean thermal vents to salt flats to polar ice caps, surviving numerous mass extinction events, recovering each time to generate greater complexity, eventually producing the phenomenon of consciousness out of supposedly inorganic elemental matter, well, it must be said that it's a little bit striking, that life might not be entirely mechanistic.

I don't know about the existence of souls, my own or anybody else's, but I think it's reasonable to believe that the phenomenon we call life may be more widespread and general than is usually appreciated in western culture.

For example, I think it's reasonable for somebody to think a combine could have a form of life. A life they care about.

Well, I ain't gonna say I'm metallic, since I'm carbon based, but I spent several years as an ironworker, you know, the guys who walk along balanced on a four inch wide beam fifty feet in the air, carrying an armload of steel. Guess that's sort of metallic, since it involves metal.

I've jumped out of airplanes and helicopters a hundred and fifty four times, but I only had a total parachute malfunction once, and that situation didn't call for a metallic nature. I just pulled the ripcord handle on my reserve. The opening shock hurt, reserves open fast.

I've climbed up and rappelled down more cliffs than I can remember, but rocks and gravity aren't interested in whether my nature is metallic.

I've spent weeks at a time alone in the desert and the mountains. I won't say I understand nature, but I know it involves a little more than the strong preying on the weak. Flowers drive roots through solid rock and single celled bacteria kill lions.

I swam across the Green River in a spring flood. Almost didn't make it. Good thing my nature isn't metallic. Metal sinks.

I got knocked down by an elephant in the middle of the night when there was nobody else around. I fought her off with a pitchfork, that was the best weapon handy. I got out alive, but I don't think I'd say I was metallic.

Thing is, none of these experiences made me inclined to trivialize other people's pain.