Alcohol and Substance Abuse Counselling Thread

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I just wanted to say that I didn't wind up drinking anything. I'm still clean.. I have 10 months and seven days now.

I completely understand where you're coming from with 12 step groups.

Here's a little more background on me:

I first went to in patient rehab in April of 2012 for an addiction to K2, marijuana and DXM. I got out and went to outpatient rehab for 6 months (which consist of 4 meetings of 3 hour long sessions a week, and then you slowly get dropped down until you're down to 1 group a week).

In that whole time while I was going to outpatient, I went to one NA group. I liked it but felt the outpatient was enough. I relapsed about 3-4 months in on alcohol. The outpatient counselor deemed it a lapse. I stopped after that. I then went off to college and drank once a month. Then in November I turned 21 and it all went down hill from there. I started drinking alcohol every day on the weekends.. then almost every day.. Then when I moved out of the dorms and got my own townhouse it was every day all the time.

I then got pulled out of school (by this time it was Spring of 2013), and went back to in patient rehab. I got out, went to outpatient, but instead I started going to meetings.. A LOT of them. I went to over 100 meetings in 90 days. I went to AA and NA meetings, but mostly NA. I got a NA sponsor, etc.

After a month of being out of rehab, I moved into a sober living house. I knew I didn't want an Oxford house, so I moved into the one I talked about in my other post. I went to a lot of meetings for the first 6 months of my sobriety.
After a while I got tired of them. I didn't learn anything from them, I didn't feel any better. I honestly just got sick of hearing people talk about it and all the drama BS that goes on around those meetings. Everyone talking about people behind each others backs, all the social events, etc.

The last sobriety key tag I got was a 90 day one. And then a friend gave me her 6 month AA coin. But I wasn't going to meetings by that time and I didn't care to show up just to get a coin or a key tag.

I started doing research online about other alternatives to AA/NA and found Smart Recovery. I've been attending some of their online meetings they have, but I've been unable to go to one in person since the nearest one to me is over an hour away.
I'm moving to Florida in March and I've already found Smart Recovery meetings nearby where I'll be living.

I don't really get much out of meetings, so I will probably never attend them a lot or be deep into the culture. I don't know if Smart Recovery even has one.

Out of all those hundreds of meetings I attended in those 6 months, including the in patient and out patient groups I was at.. The longest I talked was for 10 minutes. Every time it's my turn to speak, I never really have anything to say. I want to say something but I just never can.

I get the best results one on one, so I plan on getting a therapist that I can talk to about my recovery on a regular basis.

I lived in a house with 4 other guys, all in their twenties. The main reason why they would go to meetings is for the social. One guy, he'd find a different girl to sleep with every other week. The others just liked to go to check out what other girls are there, or to hang out with their friends. Since when living in a sober house, all everyone's friends are in the recovery scene.
They'd have these big Friday Night outings of going to a huge AA speaker meeting with over a hundred people, the place so packed there wasn't enough seats so some people just stand outside the whole time talking, and then after the meeting they'd all go down to the sober "bar/club", where you can gamble and there's a bar that only serves sodas and juice, and dance and play pool and stuff like that.

Well that's cool if you're a socialite and need a replacement for a bar scene and enjoy going on outings and being around people all the time and gossip about someone's latest relapse, or who was banging two people at once without the two peoples' knowledge of each other, and talk about recovery and glory using days and such and such.
The conversations are always about women, thoughts of using, awesome crap they think they did when using, someone's relapse, experiences in jail or rehab, etc.

I just couldn't take the BS anymore. And even when I tried just going to the meetings, everyone tries to suck me into doing something with the group like bowling or mini golfing or go kart racing or whatever.

But that's all about the AA/NA culture. What about the meetings themselves? The SUBSTANCE? Where you get the help? Well I found no help in it. I found a group of people obsessed with greeting new comers and about how amazing they are for their clean time and about how they did it "one yerp a derp day at a termmm" and then you get people in there who lie their asses off about not using, you get people in there who ramble and rant incoherently for 40 minutes straight... I mean it's just ridiculous.

Well, I just heard from my NA sponsor a few days ago. He was wondering how I was doing, we hadn't talked in months. I updated him on what was going on in my life, how I didn't think 12 step groups were for me and how I found something else that was helpful and how I was still staying clean and doing well. That was 2 days ago, ever since I sent the text about not liking 12 step groups he hasn't responded back.

I was honest to everyone that talked to me about it. I have no shame in hiding the fact that 12 step meetings and the program doesn't work for me. Some may argue well, you didn't even work all the steps. Yes that's true. I only got to step 4. I really don't care. I don't like the meetings and I don't agree with how relapses are handled and the glorification of clean time. Yes, clean time is wonderful and fantastic, but how many people in there have to collect a 30 day coin.. 3.. 4... 5.. 10 times?

I prefer a more realistic approach, where I will be clean as long as I possibly can. But I'm not going to lie to myself, I WOULD LOVE to believe I will live the rest of my life never picking up a drink or bowl of weed again. Hell, I may even do it. But I am realistic enough to acknowledge the strong possibility that I might and probably won't.

Maybe some day in my 30's or 40's, I may have gotten my bachelor's and master's, gotten my dream job, dream house, dream whatever.. Living good, and I may think to myself, ".. F**k it, I'm drinking a beer."

I know that I can't allow myself to make that mistake now. I have to get my degrees and even entertaining the idea of having just one beer or one drag or whatever could put that at risk. But I could see myself once I'm comfortable in life, giving myself a break and doing it.

But who knows maybe by that time I won't even give a flying fornication about it anymore and won't even like the taste of alcohol anymore, and it'd been so long since I drank or smoked I don't remember how good it felt, so how can you miss what you don't remember?

Well, anyway, to update you guys on my living situation. I've since left the sober living house. After that day of almost relapsing, I knew the place was too stressful and I couldn't wait for March to move out. I want to quit smoking cigarettes, eat a better diet and exercise again, and living in that house just fosters the complete opposite of that.
I moved out the first week of January and have been living with my parents since. It's been much more relaxing and has put my sobriety at much less risk. Plus, I'm now able to begin to get ready for my big move down to South Florida.

I believe there is a certain incompatibility between autism & 12 step fellowships, given the highly social nature of that program.

I also think that AA/NA have gone astray since the founding of those fellowships. They are just social clubs now. And many people there are just there to get their outpatient/court paper signed.

There still have been some good ideas presented, like:
Trusting something greater than yourself.
Taking a deep personal reflection, and sharing that with a confidant.
Making real amends, not just sating "I'm sorry".
Things of a spiritual nature can help the situation.

And self honesty is critical, "To thine own self be true." as they say.
It is really easy to deceive one's self when dealing with alcoholism/addiction, I always have to double & triple check my motives, especially when it involves substances. I find it better to use trusted people in all social circles as a sounding board. People in the 12 step world actually have a very narrow perspective on the issue.

@MadeUnderground - I couldn't do your job. One of your tenants was fired for stealing Hennessy then you kicked him out for smoking weed. I understand your position but it seems unfair. I've always come down on the side of the addict as being out of control and they need help, not to be cast aside like a stone.

I don't have a choice in the matter. It's a sober living house. The very first rule of the house in the contract is to be completely alcohol and drug free. They sign the contract to move in, you break something on the contract you have to move out.

No one was cast aside like a stone. I made sure that he called his parents and helped him with the steps that he and his parents wanted to take. I'm still in contact with him even though I no longer am the head of house. He is now living in his own apartment and has a job, and by all personal accounts is doing quite well for himself.

He smoked weed on multiple occasions and was doing heroine, and to be able to get the heroine he shoplifted from a store ten times until he got caught which resulted in him being fired from his job.

I told him, like I told the other guy I kicked out, that if they got back into a program (in patient or out patient rehab) and successfully complete it, they're welcome to come back.

There isn't really any fair or unfair in a sober living house. It's a place that houses a bunch of addicts who are struggling in their recovery. If you allow one individual to get a slap on the wrist for breaking a rule in the contract (it doesn't matter if it's weed or crack, they are both still drugs) then that opens the flood gates for anyone else trying to slither through and try to fight against the contract.
Every person who moves into the house understands the rules when they move in. No drugs or alcohol, means no drugs or alcohol, it doesn't matter what the drug is.
I sit down with every person before they move in for 2 interviews, each about 30-90 minutes long, talking about the rules, allowing them to ask questions. If a person doesn't agree with the rules, they don't move in. If they agree to the rules, they sign their name on the contract and move in.

An addict is someone who is out of control and needs help, but the house is not set up to deal with people who relapse and need help to be built back up. That puts the other tenants' sobriety at risk and that is the primary concern. The point of not allowing anyone in the house to be using is to foster a safe environment for those who are susceptible to a relapse due to someone else's use. His room smelled like weed, that puts other tenants sobriety at risk.

No one that is kicked out of the house is cast aside like a stone. It's not like we ignore them, never let them visit or have ill feelings towards them in any way. This particular tenant was a good friend of mine, we had been roommates in rehab together. I was pissed that he lied to me, but I was sad more than anything else. I also understand that relapse is common in recovery and the main thing is to help them go from there, unfortunately I can't allow them to stay in the house while doing it.
If the tenant that has relapsed agrees to go back to treatment, I will set it up for them and drive them there. I've done it before and I'll do it again. If they complete treatment successfully, they can come back. The main thing is we just can't have them stay there while trying to get their sobriety back together.

Of all three of the individuals I had to kick out of the house, he would have been the last one I would have let stay. The one individual who relapsed on heroine and used several times, then seemed to have stopped, resumed his suboxone and by all accounts by his counselor was getting back on the program, I however can't say for sure if he had anything more than 1-2 weeks clean at that point. The other, my ex, had used once, but since she hadn't used in so long and took her normal dose of what it was when she used to use it sent her into an overdose.
The other guy, the one "kicked out for weed" - that was, first of all not the primary reason he was kicked out. I was finally able to CATCH him with THC being in his system but we knew much more was going on. We also had to add a new rule to the contract that states that anyone who commits a criminal offense (such as shoplifting) is automatic termination. It isn't something we considered before until this happened with him, but it is an important thing to add. I couldn't kick him out for that reason, so when I first learned he was going to court I didn't do anything because 1) He claimed this offense happened a year ago and 2) Even if he had told me he did this while a resident at the house I wouldn't be able to do anything about it since there is nothing in the contract that addresses it.

On top of that, we drug tested him 2 other times because we had seen him high on weed, and when confronted, obviously denied all allegations. The first time his results were very diluted but he passed, the second time he BARELY passed, and then finally the third he failed.
It was then that he decided to tell me about his multiple heroine usage and the reasons for which he had shoplifted, got caught and inevitably lost his job.
He had also been notorious for stealing other tenants food. He was able to get away with all this because we really have no way to prove any of these things. I caught him looking into my fridge (we have 2 separate refrigerators and mine is different from his) and him grabbing one of my sodas as I just so happened to walk out of my room. Also every time he was in the kitchen by himself, a certain food item of mine would be there, then I would leave and come back a few minutes later and it was mysteriously gone, but again, there's no way to definitively prove that it was him.

I also forgot to add the part about me dropping him off at work once and when he got out of the car, a bowl you use to smoke weed out of feel out of his pocket. This prompted the second drug test. We confronted him and talked to him for 2 hours, and he still denied it. He said that he used it to smoke tobacco out of. No one believed him, obviously. He barely passed his drug test.
Again, because of this incident we had to add a new rule to the contract addressing no drug paraphernalia of any kind in the house, because, although it they are very far and few in between, there ARE people out there who use pipes typically used to smoke weed out of to smoke tobacco with.

It is hard to help someone who continuously lies to your face, but such is the nature of addiction. You can only help someone when they want to be helped. He didn't want it until he got busted. Then because of the nature of living in a sober house, the consequence of him being busted resulted in his termination of residency.

A sober living house is far from perfect, but I do not agree with your notion that we cast aside addicts like stones if they relapse. You and I both agree and come down on the same side of needing to help the addict, but when it comes to protecting other tenants sobriety and the very point of being in a sober living house it changes things dramatically. Again, though, we do still help the guy after his residency is terminated, especially if he wants to go to treatment and reaches out for help.

I'm an addict.

I have been self prescribing marijuana on a daily basis for 14 years. I genuinely enjoy it, and feel that it 'de-tunes' me down to a wavelength similar to that of NT people. This may be an illusion, but I am MUCH more sociable when I'm high and don't suffer from any of the paranoia that other pot-heads report.

Weed improves my appetite also, helps with my insomnia, and takes the edge of my depression. I struggle without it, and I'm far less likely to seek human contact if I'm not high.

The problem with weed is - aside from cost - the way it murders motivation. I need to take a break for a good couple of weeks at least to sort my life out, but I'm finding it incredibly difficult to give up for even a day.
My main fear is that I will turn to alcohol to replace the weed, and I'm a nasty piece of work when I'm drunk. Either that or I'll become a complete recluse without my social crutch.

What to do?

I have considered speaking to my GP for help, but I'm worried that I'll be pressured into giving up the one thing that makes my life bearable.

To add to this I am hopelessly addicted to nicotine and caffeine. Nightmare!

*sigh* with our current financial issues and being broke already in this month, I'm needing either alcohol or something else to escape reality. God I need booze and is even willing to try any substances to be happy

My dad's girlfriend does nothing but b***h and moan and I keep trying to tell her that this is nothing. No, you want broke b***h ? Try living off of flour, sugar and water you f*****g pampered Christian whore !

My God, you stress over the stupidest f*****g s**t like what people think about and make my Dad miserable because you think your living in sin living with a unmarried man! Plus you worry about what your fat ass ex husband thinks and avoid conflict and let him walk all over us! You ever think that maybe we're suffering as well ?

Who gives a flying f**k what a bunch of hypocrite Christians and your fat ass ret*d ex thinks. Stand the f**k up to him and stop bitching until you do!

Do any addicts here know how to make substances because I want it right the f**k now !

Okay, this is like 8th post I've seen from you were it's like you are ranting/screaming/cussing up a storm. Seems like you have some anger issue that may need to be addressed. If you can talk to anyone about why you seem like you're so angry all the time, that might be really helpful to you.
It may be that you're not angry and that's just how you talk apparently, but Christ man... Seriously, every time I read a post from you I keep thinking, "Calm down, bro."

And I can only speak for myself that even if I did know how to make substances.. (which I don't know what drugs you could possibly be talking about, making something out of nothing.. The only thing I can think of would be meth, other than having to buy some other kind of drugs and doctoring/altering them, but again that's not the same as just making a substance), I wouldn't tell you how to make them.

Why would I give advice to someone on how to make a substance when it seems like given your current emotional state, there is a high chance that this could lead to a serious drug abuse problem?

There is no drug you can get or even make (because even that would require you to buy ingredients) that would cost you less than cheap liquor.
Just wait till you get a little over 2 bucks, then you can go and buy one of those 1.99 dollar forties at a local gas station or something.

That was my own deal when I got sober in 1981. Alcohol and pot were my "normalizers" bringing me down to a level where I could communicate with others.


That was the big question for me in my own time, and I knew going back to drinking would kill me since I had no control at all once I got started. Overall, I had to find others just like myself who wanted to make good use of our entire minds and potential rather than just some different way to reduce ourselves to something less than we actually could be. As I later heard from someone here at WrongPlanet, being well-adjusted within a sick society was no longer a goal of mine.


Yes, many people seem to want us to believe our lives will be better if we remove certain substances, but I had to have something to replace them. I have since been accused of being "addicted to spirituality" and spiritual fellowship, but there is where I finally found relief.

Cheers for the response. I've observed that a couple of my friends have taken a similar 'spiritual' path to replace their addictions, and they seem to have benefited. From discussing the subject with these friends, we've discovered that I have quite the pathological aversion to matters of spirituality. I understand the concept of 'belief' and I enjoy reading about various belief systems and how they have influenced society and individuals throughout history, but I remain incapable of it.

Were you similarly close-minded at any point? How did you overcome this?

No, I readily accepted and even pursued the idea of "God" early-on in life even though many years were to pass before I had to abandon all sectarian religion in order to begin actually making sense of it. In your kind of case, however, a simple willingness to believe there at least might be some kind of "powers of good beyond our synthetic knowledge" (Dr. Silkworth, A.A.) can be enough for taking some actions to let the same reveal itself. Mere moral and/or philosophical approaches to spirituality never quite get there. We can live our ways into new ways of thinking following some honest "taste-and-see" investigation, but we can never merely think our ways into successful living.

What finally clicked for me was reading M. Scott Peck's "The Road Less Traveled". It has a chapter on synchronicity and serendipity that presents things in a non-spiritual way that resonated with me, and so I latched onto it.

@MadeUnderground - Thanks for clearing that up.

Book acquired, thank you for the suggestion.

I struggle with addiction myself, got kicked out of residential inpatient because benzos showed up in my urine it's been three week and to this day I'm still wracking my brain of how it got there because I didn't take any while in treatment unless someone snuck it in my food/drink which I wouldn't be surprised by because it felt like everyone was turning on me they were getting frustrated because I wasn't doing my end of stuff but I thought I was, I was trying my hardest but my hardest wasn't good enough it seems. I was devastated when I got kicked out and in shock because I didn't think there would be anything in my system. Went on a three day alcohol binge and then was like what the heck am I doing. Will have trhee weeks clean and sober on Monday, trying to re apply to treatment but worried the same thing will happen. It's overwhelming. Apparently the last week I was in treatment I was having cyclical panic attacks, I would meltdown and lash out, I would get sensory overload and shut down it was brutal.

The problem there is the belief many people have that knowing we have a problem is enough to inspire us to resolve it even though at least some of us have a problem we are powerless to resolve!


Find someone to help you get to the bottom of that -- our frustrated natural instincts, desires, ambitions and so on -- and show you how the practice of spiritual principles amongst others like ourselves can lead us away from the misery that has always been driving us back to alcohol or drugs.

This song is so well known that it's actually a cliche but I still love it.
Just click on the link and wait until the irritating ad is finished.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... eYsTmIzjkw