You're a victim?

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I know I have a victim mentality, and am quite frusterated at just how much it certainly is not productive towards solving my problems. That does not mean I can just not have that mentality anymore, and being ridiculed for it certainly does not help. Also I already tend to overanalize everything which includes challenging my perceptions but its more likely I'll challenge my perceptions and see that things are even worse than I think they are.

I am not really sure about a lot of things, just that my life kinda sucks and probably will continue to......but I don't feel like I am that afraid of uncertainy based on some choices I've made.

I'm not saying that you can just snap out of it. I've gotten a lot better when it comes to my struggles with depression, but I still struggle with it and it certainly didn't get better overnight so I'm not expecting that at all from you. Ridiculing is a dick move, but you shouldn't let that rattle you so much since people tend to be dickheads for their own good rather than for yours. I think you're too needy and you shouldn't care so much about what others think. You always say that you're thinking of leaving the forum if people don't want you here, but why should you even care about whether or not people like you here when you're here for your own sake? I certainly wouldn't give a rat's ass if 90% of people on the forums hated me since I'm not posting for anyone's sake but my own.

I notice that whenever I overanalyze something it is always because of a fear of uncertainty. Think about it, overanalyzing is always about trying to reach some sort of a conclusion based on ambiguous experiences. It's futile to reach conclusions since all you're gonna do is fill the blanks in with your preconceived notions. Leave the blanks blank, forget about conclusions altogether, and consider it an unsolved mystery. What you really need to analyze is how much of your beliefs are founded on blanks filled with your preconceived notions. Once you catch them, get rid of them and leave them blank like they were supposed to be left in the first place.

Realize that it is human nature to cling on to our worldviews. Even if they harm us and are overly negative, we hold on to them just to protect our ego. This is another hurdle you'll have to jump over if you want to change your worldview.

The future is full of so many contingencies that you can't possibly be so sure about that. What you can be certain of however, is what choices you are prepared to make. If you choose to actively challenge your perceptions, you can't be certain about how long it will take or how much effort it will take to make things better but you can be certain that you will be better off than you are at the moment if you make that choice.

Such as?

Why not? The fact that Sweetleaf is unwilling to change her views and snubs people's advice is in fact the biggest obstacle she faces. Why does everything have to so politically correct? Dox47 was right about the whole self-reinforcing maladaptive stuff. Which is why I aim to empower rather than coddle.

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It's more about having an insulting tone and talking with an air of superiority. I don't consider basic civility "political correctness". Tequila could have posted something critical but intelligent like you did, but he chose to use a dumbed down insulting tone. If you're insulting someone how can you expect them to get whatever message you want to convey? I'm talking on the first page or two.

Also, for the record I'm not unconditionally defending Sweetleaf. I mentioned that I thought she is feeling depressed and anxious over her personal life circumstances and that depressed feeling was causing her to look for everything that is messed up in society. I don't disagree that a lot of things could be better, but I find she talks about things using a lot of vague generalities - like saying society thinks she's worthless garbage. In reality 99.9% of society doesn't even know her. Actual people in your life are what should matter, not vague collectives like "society".

Honestly that thread was not even about me, I guess I worded it kind of like a smart ass or something......the point was people in my finacial situation or a worse one tend to be looked down upon by society and the media as if they deserve it for supposedly being lazy and all kinds of ridiculous lies. That's screwed up so I thought i would bring it up in the politics forum as that is what it has to do with. It should have never even resulted in this. But a couple posters had to make it about me and my specific problems by insulting me. I can't really ignore whats going on when I am being negatively effected by it and see other people being negatively effected by it.

Hey Sweatleaf, have you read anything about Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DPT)? It's a bit more sophisticated than being told to "think more positive" or "don't let things bother you". It was originally used for people with BPD, but I think it's also useful for dealing with PTSD and emotional sensitivity in general. It's not going to be a cure for depression, but I've found some of the ideas useful for me when things feel out of control.

I wasn't really talking about that one specific instance but a lot of other times. In any case I think it's more a certain element of society rather than society as a whole that thinks that way. Most people have no malice towards poor people but are simply clueless as to the financial obstacles that certain people face. On this site it seems that it's a vocal minority that have really hard-hearted views.

Yeah I guess so, I just get overwhelmed thinking about stuff like that.......I mean I really do feel like there is some very messed up stuff going on in the world and that its bound to get much worse, which does not help the depression any.

I hear you. I think if at some point it's making you feel worse you should really try to take a break. I'm not saying to ignore your convictions, just try to take it somewhere less combative and negative than the PPR forum. You could get involved with the Occupy movement for instance.

Also, regardless of whether you're being sarcastic, when you make self-deprecating statements certain people are going to take it as an opportunity to use against you. I think it's BS but it seems that's what some people decide to do when they aren't interested in making an intelligent point.

I tried to get involved, in the one in my area but I did not get very far.........I have no clue who to even talk to and I feel like an idiot just going there and sitting there. I guess I still have not tried hanging out there during the weekend when they are more active so I could try that. But yeah, I just don't know what to do with myself. I mean as much as I did really want to get involved with that I my mental/emotional state seems to interfere...and I don't want to run into people who are going to accuse me of being some fake or something. But hey its likely I might not have anything going for me so why not.

no. i removed an offending post that crossed the line into personal insult again after i asked him not to post in the thread again. feel free to have respectful discussions with Sweetleaf while keeping in mind that this is The Haven.

I read the first two pages again and I the only thing that was a real dick move on his part was that he called it a poor me act. I don't think it's an act at all, I think she is genuinely being held back by her worldview. The problem isn't that she is seeking attention, but that she isn't being active enough in challenging her worldview. I don't think Tequila meant to come across as a dick though, he didn't go about it the best way but his intentions seem sincere. Other than the accusation about her putting on an act, he was spot on.

Yeah I notice that Sweetleaf tends to be very vague which is probably a major thing that shapes how she perceives things. agueness leaves plenty of room for blanks, and she is filling the blanks with her preconceived notions.

Well actually I think it's good that you get up in his face. Standing up for yourself is a good thing and I think it's a damn shame that we are all conditioned to be submissive by society. Yes, society is a vague term and I advised against getting too caught up with them, but messages favouring conformity and conflict avoidance are so prevalent that I can't pin it down to what the most significant root of them are. But anyways why would there be more downsides to not caring than caring? There are no benefits at all to being easily rattled.

Once again, you're clinging on to your worldview. Accept that you're uncertain and that you don't know whether or not there is no way in hell. Feeling that there is doesn't mean there actually isn't, it just means your worldview is weighing you down and it needs to be challenged. You also need to accept that you don't know yourself as well as you think you do. Us human beings are really good at blinding ourselves and giving ourselves a false sense of certainty just to confirm our worldviews.

I find that you're pretty defensive which narrows your worldview. You have to let go of the defensiveness before you can truly open your mind.

Sorry, I don't know enough to help you here but I'm sure someone else can. However, you are limiting your focus to an outward one when you say there isn't much to change except for getting external things out of the way. There are plenty of smaller things you can address. Although you have a big issue to take on there, you also get thrown off balance by smaller things so there are plenty of things to change. Deal with the small stuff first and work your way up. Make those things your main focus instead so you don't try to tackle everything at once.

Just to clarify, I didn't mean being afraid of uncertainty as in being afraid of danger but being afraid of uncertainties pertaining to your worldview. That is a lot scarier than danger since it is a lot less cut and dried which leaves more room for uncertainty. You will have to learn to cope with the fact that life will always be full of blanks that your worldview can't always fill at the moment.

Oh ok I didn't know you deleted one of his posts.

Well I am trying to focus on the small things I can change, but I am clueless as to where to even begin with that....uhh if only I where not so pathetic. And maybe I should stop beating myself up over the drinking all that does is upset me, I mean its not like I'm getting wasted every night but I feel like I drink more then I actually want to its kinda complicated. But yeah I just don't really know what to try and change other then maybe not being so hard on myself but that's easier said than done.

You gotta think even smaller then that. Keep it small and specific, not large and vague. Also, don't say what you won't do, but what you will do. Not only is thinking about what you won't do a downer, it is also vague since it tells you what to avoid but not what to move towards. If you're only avoiding something rather than moving towards something, you are being reactive rather than proactive.

Rather than just not being hard on yourself, tell yourself to focus on what small and specific goals you can move towards. So if you're trying to cut down on your drinking rather than telling yourself you will never drink from now on, whenever you have the urge to drink tell yourself to focus on what you like about your favourite song/TV show/hobby/whatever for 15 minutes. Keep this up and you will be able to track your progress much better.

Anyways, I gotta get some sleep now. Stay strong and keep your chin up. I know it's not easy, sh***y feelings tell you something's wrong but not what to do about it. Matter of fact, that's what I read from a psychology article so I'm not just giving you some corny self-help crap. But that's exactly why seeking solutions is much better for you than dwelling on problems and why breaking your big goals up into little chunks makes it easier.

Hey guys. Haven, remember? This is the supportive corner of the forums, yes? Shouldn't we keep the criticisms for, y'know, everywhere other than here?

Anyhow, to the original topic:

I think victim has a negative connotation because there is a prevalent belief that you're only a victim if you allow yourself to be. That's rubbish, of course. Besides, it's never cool to invalidate someone else's pain by pointing out your own or yet another person's. If specific solutions to issues can be suggested, that's one thing. But judging someone's entire life and outlook by the tiniest cross-section that is their posts here is not really accurate or helpful.

This part resonated with me because I have been in a similar situatuation and it took years to find a way out of it. It turns out I was going about things all wrong and becoming trapped. I was trying to use maximum willpower to make changes in my life and then feeling like a horrible failure when that willpower gave out. I found in my own life, and recent research agrees, that there really is such a thing as willpower fatigue, which is why the advice to just try harder doesn't work.

A bit of the research:

http://scopeblog.stanford.edu/2011/12/a ... willpower/

A lot of people have found great success with the Alcoholics Anonymous model of quitting entirely all at once and then relying heavily on social support to supplement willpower when the inevitable willpower fatigue sets in. Although NT, I am still not social enough for this model to work for me. I need to do things alone.

What I eventually discovered is that changes work best if you assume that willpower fatigue will happen and then work out a way to allow willpower to rest and replenish while still making progress. The Alcoholics Anonymous model uses sponsors and other social supports which allows people to transfer the burden of sustaining willpower temporarily onto other people. At its' very best, The Haven does this too. It's impossible to know for sure, but there may have been some actual succesful suicide prevention here as people with willpower fatigue to keep going on in life come here looking for others to temporarily take on the burden of willpower replenishment. I have seen some truly beautiful posts that I hope helped by people who willingly took on the challenge of replenishing somebody else's willpower to live.

But would posting "talk me out of/into X" in The Haven help with other willpower challenges? I don't know. I can only tell you what worked in my own life and perhaps it could help in yours. I found that in order to go it alone, without social support, I needed a way to rest and replenish my own willpower without depending on others to replenish it for me. The article gives some pointers. The first thing to do is to choose something small and do only one thing at a time. This means that your willpower supply is drained slowly. You keep working on the one thing until keeping it changed no longer requires willpower. You don't move on to another change until the first change no longer requires willpower. When that happens, you can make another change without doubling the drain on your willpower supply.

Doing changes one-at-a-time slows the rate at which your willpower is used up. But it is still used up, although at a slower rate. Per an earlier post, it seems you discovered this when you were able to go 2 weeks without a drink and then drank all at once and then felt terrible about it. It's the Binging/Fasting model. You use all the willpower you have and then it runs out and you binge and feel terrible. I think this is because people feel that they are supposed to have an endless supply of willpower so there is no such thing as using it up, there is only failing. What I eventually discovered works better is to take note of how long the willpower supply is (2 weeks, in your case) and then schedule a rest period rather than having the rest period happen on its own and in a binge fashion that you then feel terrible about. Recovered alcoholics may flame me for this, since it is absolutely the opposite of Alcoholics Anonymous addiction-ending model (and they do have a good track record) but it worked for me and since you are young, you may be too young for literal physical addiction to have set in. I think it worked for me even though I am older because I wasn't a super heavy drinker and so may not have been physically addicted. I just drank more than I should have for my health.

Some diet plans use this rest period model. They call it "cheat days". They discovered that people are less likely to binge and more likely to get back on track if they simply accept that willpower will run out at a certain point and to rest it for a scheduled amount of time without feeling guilty and then go back to the plan after the willpower is replenished. The "cheat day" is defined as a willpower rest period, rather than a failure. Doing that makes people far more likely to get back on track because resting implies you get back to the plan after the rest, rather than give up (which is more likely to happen if you think you "failed"). All exercise plans work this way. It is well known that you need to rest between exercise sessions. It is also well known that the longer you stick with the program, the physically stronger you are and the more you can do between rests. It works that way with willpower too. It turns out that willpwer isn't some bottomless reservoir that you can and should use endlessly (and feel like a failure if you don't). It's more like a muscle that needs to be rested periodically and that gets able to handle bigger and bigger loads the more it is used.

How did this work for me in practice? I was one of those classic upper/downer people. Too much coffee in the morning to get going, too much alcohol at night to relax. I needed to get off that roller coaster. It took me many failed attempts to do so until I realized I couldn't cut back on both simultaneously (rule 1) and I couldn't just stop and never look back (rule 2). I had to prioritize so I did alcohol first and didn't tackle coffee until alcohol was under control (rule 1). Then instead of just stopping and never looking back I scheduled willpwer rest periods that slowly got longer and longer. I would only have a one beer a night instead of two. Then only every other night. Then only every third night. Then only on the weekend. Then only on one night of the weekend. Now it's only one beer only when I'm invited to some occasion which is never more than once a month. That is an acceptable level for me. I did coffee the same way.

To sum up:

Rule 1: pick just one thing to change at a time. Don't add any more changes until the first one doesn't require willpower to stick to.

Rule 2: schedule willpower rest periods. Decide in advance how long the rest period will be and how much you will allow yourself to indulge in so it doesn't turn into an "I give up" binge and stays just a rest.

Such a long post. I hope this wasn't tl:dr