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AspieUtah
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05 Jul 2015, 8:15 am

quiet_dove wrote:
...hurting feelings should be a bannable (or at least warnable) offense. These forums should be a place where us Aspies can get away from the hurtfulness of the real world. The fact that you seem to think otherwise disturbs me a bit. Why do you seem to think there's nothing wrong with hurting another Aspie's feelings?

That is how I read the rules ( http://www.wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12459 ), but, little seems to change about their application. Why aren't the rules enforced?


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05 Jul 2015, 9:48 am

What hurts someone's feelings depends on the person. Many people get offended if their views are challenged. There are people who don't want to read about vaccines, global warming, evolution, religions other than their own, or any religion, atheism, libertarianism, socialism, feminism, masculinism..., whatever. The only sure way not to hurt anyone's feelings is not to join the forums. You can't know in advance what will hurt someone else's feelings, so a rule forbidding it is bound either to completely stifle discussion or to be enforced only selectively, favoring some posters to the detriment of others.


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05 Jul 2015, 9:51 am

Spiderpig wrote:
What hurts someone's feelings depends on the person. Many people get offended if their views are challenged. There are people who don't want to read about vaccines, global warming, evolution, religions other than their own, or any religion, atheism, libertarianism, socialism, feminism, masculinism..., whatever. The only sure way not to hurt anyone's feelings is not to join the forums. You can't know in advance what will hurt someone else's feelings, so a rule forbidding it is bound either to completely stifle discussion or to be enforced only selectively, favoring some posters to the detriment of others.

Insults always hurt people's feelings, though. So why is it so wrong for me to expect people on here to never insult others?


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05 Jul 2015, 12:13 pm

Great. Now Tsahpina is making fun of me and others in this thread in Random Discussion. I've reported her rude posts, but the Mods don't seem to be doing anything.

Seems like I just can't get away from rudeness on here. I tried staying away from the PPR board, but there are rude people everywhere on here, it seems like. I just can't escape them.

This is not what I needed today, either. My mom and I have been arguing, and she told me that she wishes I hadn't talked about certain topics with my dad's friends yesterday. (Specifically, she had a problem with me talking about this book with one of my dad's friends. She thinks it's inappropriate that I was talking about mental illness with him.) She also feels like I wasn't helping her enough with the prep for the BBQ, even though I asked her numerous times if she wanted help, and she kept telling me "no." Oh, and I overheard her saying to my dad that she thinks that I'm mentally at the age of a 10-year-old. And that f*****g hurt to hear from my own mother.


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05 Jul 2015, 12:51 pm

You really have to get used to finding rude people everywhere on the Internet. It's much worse in other places. And it's not really fair to complain about the moderators, who are volunteers, have other things to do in their lives, and there aren't enough of them to constantly patrol every corner of the forums. In fact, some got fed up and left the site. By driving the remaining ones off, the situation will only get worse.


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05 Jul 2015, 12:57 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
You really have to get used to finding rude people everywhere on the Internet. It's much worse in other places. And it's not really fair to complain about the moderators, who are volunteers, have other things to do in their lives, and there aren't enough of them to constantly patrol every corner of the forums. In fact, some got fed up and left the site. By driving the remaining ones off, the situation will only get worse.

So it's wrong for me to want this to be an oasis from all of the rude people elsewhere on the Internet? It's wrong for me to want to have somewhere (anywhere, really) where I can go and be around people who won't insult me?

Also, how come you're all nice to the people in Sly279's thread, yet you aren't even trying to be nice to me? All you're doing right now is arguing with me. Why not try to comfort me instead?


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05 Jul 2015, 1:22 pm

My feelings are hurt by the libelous accusations that I don't care about feelings and think aspies shouldn't try to get along, as I didn't actually say any of that; bans all around!

See why making feeling hurting actionable and straw manning people are both bad ideas? People are trying to give you advice here because you're bringing a lot of this stuff on yourself by the way you talk, not because they want to be mean to you.


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05 Jul 2015, 1:26 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
quiet_dove wrote:
...hurting feelings should be a bannable (or at least warnable) offense. These forums should be a place where us Aspies can get away from the hurtfulness of the real world. The fact that you seem to think otherwise disturbs me a bit. Why do you seem to think there's nothing wrong with hurting another Aspie's feelings?

That is how I read the rules ( http://www.wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12459 ), but, little seems to change about their application. Why aren't the rules enforced?



The problem with hurt feelings is people can be hurt by anything. Disagreeing with someone can hurt their feelings. Saying things the way it is can hurt their feelings. There was one member here who once asked years back what is it about her that pisses people off and me and other members including one of the former mods used examples she has posted that were disturbing or annoying and she didn't take it well so she called us all mean. Why even ask if you don't want to hear the truth? I honestly thought she wanted to improve her behavior but I guess she wanted to be told how mean other people are and pat her on the back but she had asked on an autism forum where we are all blunt and honest to a fault so we told her the truth. Then she called us all meannies like an NT would when they don't like hearing the truth. But that showed showed how human we are and getting hurt by the truth is not an NT thing nor is asking a question and not liking the answer.


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05 Jul 2015, 1:27 pm

Dox47 wrote:
My feelings are hurt by the libelous accusations that I don't care about feelings and think aspies shouldn't try to get along, as I didn't actually say any of that; bans all around!

See why making feeling hurting actionable and straw manning people are both bad ideas? People are trying to give you advice here because you're bringing a lot of this stuff on yourself by the way you talk, not because they want to be mean to you.

So you just want to pretend that there are no trolls on here, and that no one ever tries to intentionally hurt others' feelings? And you also want to pretend that those of us who have depression (such as myself) are at fault for the way others choose to treat us? Just because I'm not a happy ball of sunshine doesn't mean that I deserve to be hurt, you know.


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05 Jul 2015, 1:30 pm

League_Girl wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
quiet_dove wrote:
...hurting feelings should be a bannable (or at least warnable) offense. These forums should be a place where us Aspies can get away from the hurtfulness of the real world. The fact that you seem to think otherwise disturbs me a bit. Why do you seem to think there's nothing wrong with hurting another Aspie's feelings?

That is how I read the rules ( http://www.wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12459 ), but, little seems to change about their application. Why aren't the rules enforced?



The problem with hurt feelings is people can be hurt by anything. Disagreeing with someone can hurt their feelings. Saying things the way it is can hurt their feelings. There was one member here who once asked years back what is it about her that pisses people off and me and other members including one of the former mods used examples she has posted that were disturbing or annoying and she didn't take it well so she called us all mean. Why even ask if you don't want to hear the truth? I honestly thought she wanted to improve her behavior but I guess she wanted to be told how mean other people are and pat her on the back but she had asked on an autism forum where we are all blunt and honest to a fault so we told her the truth. Then she called us all meannies like an NT would when they don't like hearing the truth. But that showed showed how human we are and getting hurt by the truth is not an NT thing nor is asking a question and not liking the answer.

Just because you're blunt and honest doesn't mean that you can't also care about others' feelings. So why not try that? And why is it so wrong for me (and others who have agreed with me in this post) to want people on here to try caring about others' feelings? Just because you're autistic doesn't mean that it's okay for you to refuse to care about others' feelings, after all.


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05 Jul 2015, 1:40 pm

quiet_dove wrote:

Quote:
"So it's wrong for me to want this to be an oasis from all of the rude people elsewhere on the Internet? It's wrong for me to want to have somewhere (anywhere, really) where I can go and be around people who won't insult me?

Also, how come you're all nice to the people in Sly279's thread, yet you aren't even trying to be nice to me? All you're doing right now is arguing with me. Why not try to comfort me instead?"


Hi...have been away for i think around a year. To quiet_dove....it is not wrong for you to want this, but imo it is unrealistic. Also, it is HEALTHY for there to be one place here where people can be more liberal in their use of language, and we can experiment with that and observe our own reactions. I do not know why people are not trying to comfort you, but to me comforting you in this particular instance would be a form of enabling you to become a weak person who expects other people to cater to your feelings. After all, it is just words, and there are many other places where you can participate on WP. I am an older person in her seventies,and speaking from extensive life experience, observation and experimentation, there is no place in this world where no one will never ever say anything that is perceived as rude, especially by a person who is super-sensitive. You are a smart person,right, so you know whether what these people are saying to you is true or not, and also you may not think/feel that you are responsible for your own feelings, but i do think/feel i am responsible for my own feelings,and to feel unpleasant feelings when they come up, to simply feel them without lapsing into excessive thinking and anger involved around blaming other people has greatly empowered me.

This is in no way to encourage bullying.

(qualifier--in the last two days have been considering coming back here,so when looking at some messages just happened to see this thread and am responding because the way censorship is handled on WP or anyplace online is of particular interest to me. i have not read the exchanges on the political board and have no idea who the person who said this stuff to you is, nor have i read this entire thread, only page one and five)

...and to all my old friends here, hi...



Last edited by littlebee on 05 Jul 2015, 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

quiet_dove
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05 Jul 2015, 1:44 pm

littlebee wrote:
quiet_dove wrote:
Quote:
"So it's wrong for me to want this to be an oasis from all of the rude people elsewhere on the Internet? It's wrong for me to want to have somewhere (anywhere, really) where I can go and be around people who won't insult me?

Also, how come you're all nice to the people in Sly279's thread, yet you aren't even trying to be nice to me? All you're doing right now is arguing with me. Why not try to comfort me instead?"


Hi...have been away for i think around a year. To quiet_dove....it is not wrong for you to want this, but imo it is unrealistic. Also, it is HEALTHY for there to be one place here where people can be more liberal in their use of language,and we can experiment with that and observe our own reactions. I do not know why people are not trying to comfort you, but to me personally comforting you in this particular instance would be a form of enabling you to become a weak person who expects other people to cater to your feelings. After all, it is just words, and there are many other places where you can participate on wp. I am an older person in her seventies,and speaking from extensive life experience and also experimentation, there is no place in this world where no one will never ever say anything that is perceived as rude, especially by a person who is super-sensitive. You are a smart person,right, so you know whether what these people are saying to you is true or not, and also you may not think/feel that you are responsible for your own feelings, but i do think/feel i am responsible for my own feelings,and to feel unpleasant feelings when they come up, simply feel them, without lapsing into excessive thinking and anger involved around blaming other people has greatly empowered me.

This is in no way to encourage bullying, especially in the instance of teenagers, but my take on this is a little different than the average, currently perceived to be politically correct, and this explanation is for another day.

(qualifier--in the last two days have been considering coming back here,so when looking at some messages just happened to see this thread and am responding because the way censorship is handled on wp is of particular interest to me....i have not read any of the exchanges on the political board and have no idea who the person who said this stuff to you is....nor have i read this entire thread----only page one and five)

...and to all my old friends here, hi...)

Wow. So you think I'm "weak" by wanting to be comforted? And you think that saying that to me is going to make me feel better somehow? You have so much to learn about friendship, and I don't want to be the one to teach you, since I honestly want to stay as far away from you as I possibly can, based on your attitude in this post. Little hint: if you want friends (and I know you do, since us humans are social creatures, and loneliness is goddamned painful), then you should really try being kind to people.

Oh, and by the way, those of us with mental illnesses can't control our thoughts and feelings. That's what mental illnesses are, are ways that the human brain can get out of control. So why expect me, a person with social anxiety and depression, to be able to control my self-hateful thoughts and to be able to let things roll off my back, then? Seems like, in addition to socializing, you also need to learn something about psychology.


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Last edited by quiet_dove on 05 Jul 2015, 1:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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05 Jul 2015, 1:46 pm

quiet_dove, I'm sorry, but, at this point, I have a hard time believing you're not trolling us. If you want everyone to care so much about your feelings, you should reciprocate by showing some consideration to people on the Internet who don't owe you anything, and some of whom are actually contributing their time to keep the forums working. Pestering them won't improve anything.

quiet_dove wrote:
So it's wrong for me to want this to be an oasis from all of the rude people elsewhere on the Internet? It's wrong for me to want to have somewhere (anywhere, really) where I can go and be around people who won't insult me?


You're not the only one who wants that, but the site didn't just appear out of thin air. Maybe you should ask yourself how you can help, instead of demanding others to do more than they're already doing.

quite_dove wrote:
Also, how come you're all nice to the people in Sly279's thread, yet you aren't even trying to be nice to me? All you're doing right now is arguing with me. Why not try to comfort me instead?


Your complaints aren't very nice, either. If you don't want to hear what I have to say, I'll just leave you alone.


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05 Jul 2015, 1:53 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
quiet_dove, I'm sorry, but, at this point, I have a hard time believing you're not trolling us. If you want everyone to care so much about your feelings, you should reciprocate by showing some consideration to people on the Internet who don't owe you anything, and some of whom are actually contributing their time to keep the forums working. Pestering them won't improve anything.

How have I ever pestered the Mods? Making this post doesn't count as pestering them, since I wasn't directing it towards them. Heck, I've barely even talked to the Mods at all.

And I'm most certainly not trolling. I'm just trying to find some support on this forum, but I guess that's damned near impossible. I'm about thisclose to leaving here, not that I think you'd care about that. Hell, you'd probably f*****g celebrate if I left. And that just makes me feel even worse about myself than I already do.

Tell me, do you even understand what it's like to have depression and social anxiety? I spend my days alternately hating myself and being afraid to leave my house at all. And when I do have to leave the house, for an appointment, or to volunteer (I have two different volunteer positions during the week), I don't talk to anyone, since I feel like I'm just an annoyance. I hardly even talk to my own parents (who I live with, and who are the closest things to friends I have left) anymore, since they're so stressed these days. So, with all that said, is it really so wrong for me to want to be able to get away from hatred on here, especially since I'm constantly surrounded by my own self-hatred? Try putting yourself in my shoes for once, instead of constantly judging me.

Spiderpig wrote:
quiet_dove wrote:
So it's wrong for me to want this to be an oasis from all of the rude people elsewhere on the Internet? It's wrong for me to want to have somewhere (anywhere, really) where I can go and be around people who won't insult me?


You're not the only one who wants that, but the site didn't just appear out of thin air. Maybe you should ask yourself how you can help, instead of demanding others to do more than they're already doing.

Okay, then how can I help? I'm genuinely asking here.

Spiderpig wrote:
quite_dove wrote:
Also, how come you're all nice to the people in Sly279's thread, yet you aren't even trying to be nice to me? All you're doing right now is arguing with me. Why not try to comfort me instead?


Your complaints aren't very nice, either. If you don't want to hear what I have to say, I'll just leave you alone.

So I'm not even allowed to complain now? Why should I have to keep my complaints bottled up inside, with nowhere to let them out? I don't think you understand that this is the only place where I can vent. I have nowhere else where I feel safe venting, and I certainly don't have any friends to vent to. So why is it so wrong for me to vent and complain on here?


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05 Jul 2015, 2:30 pm

quiet_dove wrote:

Quote:
Wow. So you think I'm "weak" by wanting to be comforted? And you think that saying that to me is going to make me feel better somehow? You have so much to learn about friendship, and I don't want to be the one to teach you, since I honestly want to stay as far away from you as I possibly can, based on your attitude in this post. Little hint: if you want friends (and I know you do, since us humans are social creatures, and loneliness is goddamned painful), then you should really try being kind to people.

Oh, and by the way, those of us with mental illnesses can't control our thoughts and feelings. That's what mental illnesses are, are ways that the human brain can get out of control. So why expect me, a person with social anxiety and depression, to be able to control my self-hateful thoughts and to be able to let things roll off my back, then? Seems like, in addition to socializing, you also need to learn something about psychology.


wow great message...thanks (and genuine thanks,,,not being sarcastic)....will respond piece by piece--

"Wow. So you think I'm "weak" by wanting to be comforted?"
No, of course not. We all want that, but in this particular context (not all contexts) i think it would enable you to "become weak." (I never said you are weak.)


"And you think that saying that to me is going to make me feel better somehow?"
This whole forum does not revolve around one person feeling better by controlling everything that happens here, but this aside, i think in the long run if youexperiment with you modifying your particular approach, you will end up feeling much much better.


"You have so much to learn about friendship, and I don't want to be the one to teach you, since I honestly want to stay as far away from you as I possibly can, based on your attitude in this post."
This does sound like a troll message at this point, as, obviously, responding to me will elicit another response.,.."


Oh, and by the way, those of us with mental illnesses can't control our thoughts and feelings.
I do not know about all mentally ill people, but i believe that you can learn how to do this. Anyway,am writing this for you, sure, but not just for you---for other people in the community,also.

"That's what mental illnesses are, are ways that the human brain can get out of control."
Agreed.

"So why expect me, a person with social anxiety and depression, to be able to control my self-hateful thoughts and to be able to let things roll off my back, then?"
I do expect you to be able to learn to do this if you can get a glimmer of the sense of learning to do this and so want to learn to do this, but only little by little and with practice.

This subject is of particular interest to me, and a good segue into my re-participation on this forum if i do decide to come back, which is why i have taken the time to respond here. Boy/(girl)--responding to a person who is autistic, including myself, can be a tad arduous, but can also be gratifying from both ends of the stick, which i hope applies here...all the best...it's a beautiful day today. Thanks for responding to me.and of course i do not want you or anyone to be unhappy, but we also need to learn to be able to put various material into context.



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05 Jul 2015, 2:37 pm

If the forum enjoys slightly different rules to accommodate different ages (kids), familial status (parents) and gender (women) among others, would it be possible to create a new subforum where the rules would expressly expect a more well-mannered discussion? Of course, it would. Call it the "Polite" subforum. All topics would be encouraged, just with an overriding focus on civilized disagreement if there is disagreement at all.

I suspect it would quickly become the preferred area of WrongPlanet.net. Of course, it might also have the advantage of isolating the trolls, tools and camp followers in their own echo chamber where few dare tread.

I suggest we try it out.


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