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b9
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09 Jan 2012, 11:13 am

i do not feel depression per se, but sometimes i think i suffer from it.
i do not feel sad or anguished or aggrieved or morose or forlorn, i just feel like i could not care less about anything.
i have been stuck in a "spiritual" rut lately where i think i have what i want, but my level of interest in my place in the world is very deflated.

i do not actually have do do anything much to get the money i need to live. i own a business, and at first i had to get up at 5 am and do hard work until about 2pm, and i thought i hated it, and i was determined to scale the business up so as i could stay at home and hire drivers to do the physical work for me.

i especially hated getting up so early because i am a night time type of person, and going to bed so early was impossible, so i was always very cruddy in the head when i forced myself to get up, but i was much happier then than now even though i disliked the level of physical obligation i had.

by 9 am, i was wide awake and relatively happy. i was in the sunshine and it shone on my skin when i got out of the truck, and my muscles were tuned to working. it was a mindless type of job, so i was able to think of interesting things that i knew i would post later on the forum when i got home, or say to my few friends when i next spoke to them.

i had limited time to explore my interests and i put much effort into developing my ideas about them, and so i produced things i was happy with and i wanted to show them.

but when i achieved my goal of assigning the actual labor to drivers, all i had to do was ring 20 customers per day (at 5pm (it takes 15 minutes)) to see what they wanted the next day, and i entered their requirements into my system and emailed the drivers the invoices they were to print and deliver with the goods.

i was able to stay up until 6am and then flop into bed with no worries about having to wake up, and i thought it was heavenly.

but here is the problem....

i got no sun on my skin, and i woke up at 2pm every day, and i got stuck into my interests, and i oversaturated myself with stimulii, and i started to not value my free time as much, because almost all my time was free time.

i think that because i chose to stay in bed and not even open any blinds (in order to revel in my freedom from my obligation to get up), that i suffered from a sunlight deficiency and an exercise deficiency, and i think i became depleted in vitamin D.

i am getting better now because i again am going on bush walks like i used to, and i like to walk alone deep in the bushland, and sit on rocks overlooking streams and watch the animals and listen to the babbling sounds of the stream. all the while, i am getting sunlight on my skin, and i am exercising by walking where i want to go, and when i get home, i feel somewhat better.

but i still have a way to go. i still often just choose to roll over and go back to sleep instead of getting up and doing things, because at the time it seems like the better option.
but if i do get up and do things, then when the day is over, i feel much more pleasant and less like "who cares"

once, i had a very witty mind, and i enjoyed applying it, and i liked to think of witty things to post.
now i feel pressed just to make sense let alone be intriguing like i used to think i was.

once, i had a very high quality synthesizer and it felt like a real piano to play. (i play real piano's well because i got used to the way they feel from an early age). it had an excellent drum pad attachment and i used to spend days crafting what my songs would sound like.

now, (because they were stolen from my house during a robbery) i have a very cheap keyboard, and the keys feel odd, and i can not play it well because it is a cheap feeling keyboard which is too sensitive and has no sustain pedals etc). earlier in my life, i would have not tolerated my current keyboard, and i would have fixed the situation rapidly.

now i just put up with it and think "whatever", and i roll over and go back to sleep.

then i wake up and it is all the same again. i think that sunlight on my skin is a major contributor to my mental vigor, and i am starting to let the sun touch me more often now and i feel a mild improvement (it is early times yet).


anyway, the thrust behind all this gabble is that sunlight and vitamin D is very important to the production of serotonin. i know that the northern hemisphere is in a winter cycle at the moment, and strong sunlight may be hard to find.


another aspect to the feeling of robustness is the amount of iron one gets.

red meat is essential to eat a few times a week (if one does not find that morally objectionable), and if people do not want to eat red meat, then iron pills will possibly suffice, but they do not provide protein and protein deficiencies also lead to weakness and a feeling of malaise.

anyway i am sorry to have been so verbose, but i wish i could help you and i do not expect a reply because i would not know what to say further than what i have just said.



CockneyRebel
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09 Jan 2012, 1:32 pm

I'm not a victim, I'm a survivor. :)


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09 Jan 2012, 3:03 pm

Tequila wrote:
That's what we're trying to get across. It's perfectly understandable that you may have had some very traumatic experiences in your life and, in those cases, most people will be naturally sympathetic to you. People are quite understanding and sympathetic here in comparison with many Internet message boards and will help you out.

It's the whiny, attention-seeking "poor me" act that you constantly do that winds people up. You don't know what the other experiences of the people on this board are. There may be many other women who have had to suffer far, far worse ordeals than you have but they keep quiet about it and try to retain a positive outlook if they can, if only for their sanity (or, more likely, their children or partner).

Do you understand? Does this make sense? A lot of us are depressed here but we just deal with it as best we can (although I am personally not that bad at the moment). :)


yeah you do not seem to get that she need's someone to talk to don't you get that ? she depress as she already is no need to get smart by the way am taking about last statesman of line saying we deal with it well true that she dose not need to know that already she has problem of her own main issue would be depression that all got to say



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09 Jan 2012, 3:40 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
I'm not a victim, I'm a survivor. :)

Hear! Hear!

I was a victim, but I got better! :D



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09 Jan 2012, 3:47 pm

Fnord wrote:
Hear! Hear!

I was a victim, but I got better! :D


Excellent. Good for you both - and I'm sure your experiences have perhaps even added to your life experience, as unpleasant as they were.



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09 Jan 2012, 6:46 pm

I don't consider myself a victim, but people who are "annoyed" by victims are all horrific a**holes. And now they're all victims of my intolerance, HAHA!



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09 Jan 2012, 11:42 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Well I am trying to focus on the small things I can change, but I am clueless as to where to even begin with that....uhh if only I where not so pathetic. And maybe I should stop beating myself up over the drinking all that does is upset me, I mean its not like I'm getting wasted every night but I feel like I drink more then I actually want to its kinda complicated. But yeah I just don't really know what to try and change other then maybe not being so hard on myself but that's easier said than done.


Maybe you should cut out the drinking for a while. I dunno, in my experience (and of course it's just me) quitting drinking for a while when I was super depressed was the best thing I ever did for myself. That's a medium-sized thing that has the potential to have monster-sized results.

I'm not trying to preach or be an a**hole, nowadays I do drink for better or worse, maybe it's not "best" for me but at least my mind is in its proper place currently. I just feel like clearing your lifestyle of depressants during depressed times is a very logical route, but not one that everyone (myself included, for the longest time) legitimately considers. Food for thought...


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10 Jan 2012, 3:36 am

AceOfSpades wrote:
marshall wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Tequila, you made your point and clarified it. although you backed off from your original stance, i can't see any benefit to you saying anything further here.
Why not? The fact that Sweetleaf is unwilling to change her views and snubs people's advice is in fact the biggest obstacle she faces. Why does everything have to so politically correct? Dox47 was right about the whole self-reinforcing maladaptive stuff. Which is why I aim to empower rather than coddle.

It's more about having an insulting tone and talking with an air of superiority. I don't consider basic civility "political correctness". Tequila could have posted something critical but intelligent like you did, but he chose to use a dumbed down insulting tone. If you're insulting someone how can you expect them to get whatever message you want to convey? I'm talking on the first page or two.
I read the first two pages again and I the only thing that was a real dick move on his part was that he called it a poor me act. I don't think it's an act at all, I think she is genuinely being held back by her worldview. The problem isn't that she is seeking attention, but that she isn't being active enough in challenging her worldview. I don't think Tequila meant to come across as a dick though, he didn't go about it the best way but his intentions seem sincere. Other than the accusation about her putting on an act, he was spot on.

marshall wrote:
Also, for the record I'm not unconditionally defending Sweetleaf. I mentioned that I thought she is feeling depressed and anxious over her personal life circumstances and that depressed feeling was causing her to look for everything that is messed up in society. I don't disagree that a lot of things could be better, but I find she talks about things using a lot of vague generalities - like saying society thinks she's worthless garbage. In reality 99.9% of society doesn't even know her. Actual people in your life are what should matter, not vague collectives like "society".
Yeah I notice that Sweetleaf tends to be very vague which is probably a major thing that shapes how she perceives things. agueness leaves plenty of room for blanks, and she is filling the blanks with her preconceived notions.

Sweetleaf wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
I'm going to be honest here. You do have a victim mentality and it really isn't productive towards solving your problems. I can't completely hold it against you since it isn't just whining for the sake of whining but that you genuinely believe your life is outside of your grip. sh**, I've always felt that way and still do to some extent which is why I still struggle with being depressed from time to time. However, you've got to take a more active role in challenging your perceptions, even if you do honestly believe them.

I'm not saying blow smoke up your ass since that can easily backfire, but that you should be willing to accept uncertainty rather than just jump to conclusions. Every situation has tons of blanks and filling them all with hasty assumptions as if they're self-evident truths is what causes people to have a faulty perspective. Fear stems from uncertainty, and my theory is that depression is a defense mechanism to uncertainty. Why let uncertainty linger when it's much easier to be dead certain that your negative beliefs are true? If you want to take control of your life, you'll have to take the hard way and accept uncertainty rather than just letting your negative beliefs fill every blank in.


I know I have a victim mentality, and am quite frusterated at just how much it certainly is not productive towards solving my problems. That does not mean I can just not have that mentality anymore, and being ridiculed for it certainly does not help.
I'm not saying that you can just snap out of it. I've gotten a lot better when it comes to my struggles with depression, but I still struggle with it and it certainly didn't get better overnight so I'm not expecting that at all from you. Ridiculing is a dick move, but you shouldn't let that rattle you so much since people tend to be dickheads for their own good rather than for yours. I think you're too needy and you shouldn't care so much about what others think. You always say that you're thinking of leaving the forum if people don't want you here, but why should you even care about whether or not people like you here when you're here for your own sake? I certainly wouldn't give a rat's ass if 90% of people on the forums hated me since I'm not posting for anyone's sake but my own.

Well I don't feel I intentionally let it get to me, but when people are too harsh it even causes physical reactions like I get this weird chest pain/adrenaline rush feeling thing going on. Usually it only lasts a couple seconds before I get control and don't resort to punching a wall or going out side and finding something to kick, or when my moms boyfriend sets me off I straight up get in his face cause its the only way to get him to shut the hell up.

I can make myself not care but, but that path has its downsides....
Well actually I think it's good that you get up in his face. Standing up for yourself is a good thing and I think it's a damn shame that we are all conditioned to be submissive by society. Yes, society is a vague term and I advised against getting too caught up with them, but messages favouring conformity and conflict avoidance are so prevalent that I can't pin it down to what the most significant root of them are. But anyways why would there be more downsides to not caring than caring? There are no benefits at all to being easily rattled.

Sweetleaf wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Also I already tend to overanalize everything which includes challenging my perceptions but its more likely I'll challenge my perceptions and see that things are even worse than I think they are.
I notice that whenever I overanalyze something it is always because of a fear of uncertainty. Think about it, overanalyzing is always about trying to reach some sort of a conclusion based on ambiguous experiences. It's futile to reach conclusions since all you're gonna do is fill the blanks in with your preconceived notions. Leave the blanks blank, forget about conclusions altogether, and consider it an unsolved mystery. What you really need to analyze is how much of your beliefs are founded on blanks filled with your preconceived notions. Once you catch them, get rid of them and leave them blank like they were supposed to be left in the first place.

I just feel like there is no way in hell I can make my brain work that way, I mean one of the main reasons I still smoke cannabis is because it slows down that process so I can get a bit of peice and quiet in my head if that makes any sense. Because normally its full of so many thoughts half of which I would prefer not to have.
Once again, you're clinging on to your worldview. Accept that you're uncertain and that you don't know whether or not there is no way in hell. Feeling that there is doesn't mean there actually isn't, it just means your worldview is weighing you down and it needs to be challenged. You also need to accept that you don't know yourself as well as you think you do. Us human beings are really good at blinding ourselves and giving ourselves a false sense of certainty just to confirm our worldviews.

Sweetleaf wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
Realize that it is human nature to cling on to our worldviews. Even if they harm us and are overly negative, we hold on to them just to protect our ego. This is another hurdle you'll have to jump over if you want to change your worldview.

I know this, and I try my best to be open minded to other worldviews and such
I find that you're pretty defensive which narrows your worldview. You have to let go of the defensiveness before you can truly open your mind.

Sweetleaf wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I am not really sure about a lot of things, just that my life kinda sucks and probably will continue to......
The future is full of so many contingencies that you can't possibly be so sure about that. What you can be certain of however, is what choices you are prepared to make. If you choose to actively challenge your perceptions, you can't be certain about how long it will take or how much effort it will take to make things better but you can be certain that you will be better off than you are at the moment if you make that choice.

Right now there is not much to change, my main focus right now is to figure out how the hell I'm going to survive when my left over college money runs out........and how I will afford to pay back the loans.
Sorry, I don't know enough to help you here but I'm sure someone else can. However, you are limiting your focus to an outward one when you say there isn't much to change except for getting external things out of the way. There are plenty of smaller things you can address. Although you have a big issue to take on there, you also get thrown off balance by smaller things so there are plenty of things to change. Deal with the small stuff first and work your way up. Make those things your main focus instead so you don't try to tackle everything at once.

Sweetleaf wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
but I don't feel like I am that afraid of uncertainy based on some choices I've made.
Such as?

Well I met a guy on the internet and went to meet up with him and we dated, but yeah taking a bus pretty far from my house and getting in a car with a guy I didn't know and going to his house that is more or less risky. Thats just one example of not being quite sure what will happen but proceeding anyways. I actually like doing that because sometimes its nice not to know exactly what to expect.
Just to clarify, I didn't mean being afraid of uncertainty as in being afraid of danger but being afraid of uncertainties pertaining to your worldview. That is a lot scarier than danger since it is a lot less cut and dried which leaves more room for uncertainty. You will have to learn to cope with the fact that life will always be full of blanks that your worldview can't always fill at the moment.

hyperlexian wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Tequila, you made your point and clarified it. although you backed off from your original stance, i can't see any benefit to you saying anything further here.
Why not? The fact that Sweetleaf is unwilling to change her views and snubs people's advice is in fact the biggest obstacle she faces. Why does everything have to so politically correct? Dox47 was right about the whole self-reinforcing maladaptive stuff. Which is why I aim to empower rather than coddle.

no. i removed an offending post that crossed the line into personal insult again after i asked him not to post in the thread again. feel free to have respectful discussions with Sweetleaf while keeping in mind that this is The Haven.
Oh ok I didn't know you deleted one of his posts.


Well not caring turns me into a person I don't nessisarly want to be......but yes it would be easier just not when I have to think about it. Hell not caring yesterday ended up having me drunk and unable to remember quite how I got back to my friends house. My sister gave me a ride I'm sure but I just can't quite remember. Things like that would happen more often if I decided to try not to be concerned with things all the time.

Also thing is when I overanalize things I am not really conciously looking for a conclusion, I just can't get rid of the thoughts so I end up feeling like I have no choice but to analize things regardless of wether or not its possible to reach a conclusion about it. So I really don't know how to prevent that.

I know I am uncertain about things, and I think I do know myself......but that does nothing to make me feel any better, because you and everyone else here don't even know what goes on in my mind. I mean I don't know everything about myself but I know a lot of things that don't exactly paint the most wonderful picture and make it very hard for me not to hate myself.

I am not quite sure what my world veiw even is, I just know its not that positive and yeah I am defensive......I can't really lie about that, it would be too obvious.

And sure I might end up better off, I am just more inclined to belive I wont.

As for being vauge I kinda have my reasons......not quite sure what they are at the moment but yeah sometimes I don't like to be too open about everything so I keep things vauge unless I feel I can bring up all the details.


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10 Jan 2012, 3:40 am

CockneyRebel wrote:
I'm not a victim, I'm a survivor. :)


Right on, I just haven't reached that point......and am not sure I will. but I guess that is part of life things would just not be the same if everyone could handle the stress of life.


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10 Jan 2012, 3:46 am

amazon_television wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Well I am trying to focus on the small things I can change, but I am clueless as to where to even begin with that....uhh if only I where not so pathetic. And maybe I should stop beating myself up over the drinking all that does is upset me, I mean its not like I'm getting wasted every night but I feel like I drink more then I actually want to its kinda complicated. But yeah I just don't really know what to try and change other then maybe not being so hard on myself but that's easier said than done.


Maybe you should cut out the drinking for a while. I dunno, in my experience (and of course it's just me) quitting drinking for a while when I was super depressed was the best thing I ever did for myself. That's a medium-sized thing that has the potential to have monster-sized results.

I'm not trying to preach or be an a**hole, nowadays I do drink for better or worse, maybe it's not "best" for me but at least my mind is in its proper place currently. I just feel like clearing your lifestyle of depressants during depressed times is a very logical route, but not one that everyone (myself included, for the longest time) legitimately considers. Food for thought...


Yeah well as much as I've gone on to people in the past about how I am only possibly addicted to ciggerettes and do not have cravings for anything else at all besides caffine. It turns out not drinking is easier said than done. I should have just sticked to the cannabis rather then ever having any alcohol. Not to mention alcohol and cannabis are not exactly the cheapest things in the world. I get your point and even kinda agree.......just can't bring myself to actually follow that advise.


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10 Jan 2012, 5:09 am

I'm not bothered by you or your posts at all, just trying to show you why some people might be (which is, kinda, what you were asking in your original post).

Sweetleaf wrote:
I have kinda given up on trying to improve my mental state...I can't seem to convince myself there is any reason to bother with it.


This statement is very telling.

When you post your negative feelings, complain about your situation, there is an implicit subtext of "Please say something to help me feel better." If, however, you yourself have given up on improving your mental state, which you seem to have done (and i base that on your posts in general, not just this one), then you are asking the impossible of people.


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10 Jan 2012, 5:29 am

mds_02 wrote:
I'm not bothered by you or your posts at all, just trying to show you why some people might be (which is, kinda, what you were asking in your original post).

Sweetleaf wrote:
I have kinda given up on trying to improve my mental state...I can't seem to convince myself there is any reason to bother with it.


This statement is very telling.

When you post your negative feelings, complain about your situation, there is an implicit subtext of "Please say something to help me feel better." If, however, you yourself have given up on improving your mental state, which you seem to have done (and i base that on your posts in general, not just this one), then you are asking the impossible of people.


Yeah I guess, but to be honest I can't really seem to help it....I mean yeah I've kinda given up on that, but it does not really reduce any pain I feel so I still end up having to let out how I feel. I mean I really don't know what I could even do about that but I can see why it could be frusterating for some people. Seems like all anyone can really do is try and be supportive but I can see how they may even end up wondering what it is they are being supportive of exactly.

I suppose I am not the first person this has happened to and I even kinda figured it would just by relating to fictional characters or real life people I've read about that have run into this, but now its the actual reality of the situation.

Its like a cycle of insanity, I try so hard just to hold everything in and not react to it which only makes me feel worse in which case I end up trying to kill the pain. I mean I feel like I have to hold things in or people will use it to their advantage to make me feel bad as that was the experiance I had repeatedy as a child. But one can only bottle up so much before they have to let it all out or try and kill the pain.


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10 Jan 2012, 5:49 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Yeah I guess, but to be honest I can't really seem to help it....I mean yeah I've kinda given up on that, but it does not really reduce any pain I feel so I still end up having to let out how I feel. I mean I really don't know what I could even do about that but I can see why it could be frusterating for some people. Seems like all anyone can really do is try and be supportive but I can see how they may even end up wondering what it is they are being supportive of exactly.

I suppose I am not the first person this has happened to and I even kinda figured it would just by relating to fictional characters or real life people I've read about that have run into this, but now its the actual reality of the situation.


Yeah, I understand that, I think. I don't know, there isn't any specific advice I can think to give you. Except maybe "don't give up." You don't have to think a particular course of action will be helpful in order to try it. I mean, in the end, what helped to pull me out of the worst of my depression was doing things that I never thought would actually help.

The advice from others that you've rejected because you thought it wouldn't help, maybe you could try it anyway. At the very least, it seems like there's not much that could make your mental state worse.


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10 Jan 2012, 7:00 am

mds_02 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Yeah I guess, but to be honest I can't really seem to help it....I mean yeah I've kinda given up on that, but it does not really reduce any pain I feel so I still end up having to let out how I feel. I mean I really don't know what I could even do about that but I can see why it could be frusterating for some people. Seems like all anyone can really do is try and be supportive but I can see how they may even end up wondering what it is they are being supportive of exactly.

I suppose I am not the first person this has happened to and I even kinda figured it would just by relating to fictional characters or real life people I've read about that have run into this, but now its the actual reality of the situation.


Yeah, I understand that, I think. I don't know, there isn't any specific advice I can think to give you. Except maybe "don't give up." You don't have to think a particular course of action will be helpful in order to try it. I mean, in the end, what helped to pull me out of the worst of my depression was doing things that I never thought would actually help.

The advice from others that you've rejected because you thought it wouldn't help, maybe you could try it anyway. At the very least, it seems like there's not much that could make your mental state worse.


I have tried some of the advice people give.....but yeah sometimes things you don't expect can turn out to be helpful. Part of my problem is also that I don't feel I can pull myself out of the depression when I don't even remember a time I did not have it. I mean it would be like a bird born with no wings trying to fly obviously its not going to happen no matter how hard they try. At least that is kind of how I feel more or less.


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10 Jan 2012, 8:33 am

i have a question that i have always wanted to ask someone who said that they cannot remember a time they were not depresssed. if you have never felt any better then how do you even know you are depressed? it makes no sense because you must have felt better at some time in order to have a point of reference. i believe depression creates a black mist that disconnects a person from reality and alters their perception of their own history. you really can't trust that perception.


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10 Jan 2012, 8:49 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Why is 'oh you're a victim' an insult?.....yeah I am a victim of bullying, PTSD from a traumatic experience, loneliness, depression, anxiety and a not so great childhood among other things. So I just don't understand what that means as an insult really. I mean are there people who go through their lives without ever being a victim of anything? and are they the majority?


So yeah I don't get what that means when people say it like an insult, but I know it usually makes me feel bad so maybe if I understood it better I could avoid experiencing further emotional discomfort.

Agreed, I think the way people use 'victim' today is very wrong, and I don't get it at all.