You're a victim?

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Sweetleaf
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10 Jan 2012, 9:14 am

hyperlexian wrote:

i have a question that i have always wanted to ask someone who said that they cannot remember a time they were not depresssed. if you have never felt any better then how do you even know you are depressed? it makes no sense because you must have felt better at some time in order to have a point of reference. i believe depression creates a black mist that disconnects a person from reality and alters their perception of their own history. you really can't trust that perception.

Well other then having all the symptoms required for Major Depression in the DSM, having attempted suicide once and considered it multiple times, I can't think of anything else that really explains it. If there was a time I was feeling better it would have been in my early childhood but I can't remember that far back. It is possible for someone to be dealt a pretty crappy hand of cards in life and that is what I think I got but without the strength to deal with it.

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hyperlexian
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10 Jan 2012, 10:22 am

the DSM is clear that there must be a change in mood in order to qualify as depression (bolded):

Quote:

A. Five (or more) of the following symptoms have been present during the same 2-week period and represent a change from previous functioning; at least one of the symptoms is either (1) depressed mood or (2) loss of interest or pleasure.

so there are 2 possibilities:

A. you have always had the same mood
B. you had a change in mood

if the situation is A, then it's not really a problem as you're not depressed. you're just telling yourself you are depressed so you can change that line of thinking and you can live happily ever after. i think we can agree this is not really your situation.

if the situation is B, then there was a time that you were not depressed, and therefore you can be better again. it is possible to get back to that point, but it's important to reach back and remember that time because if you can't remember it then it's very likely you can't reach it. people who can remember a time when they were better are more likely to respond to treatment.

at some point, you have to make a decision as to whather or not you want to get better. that's not to say that making that decision equals a cure, because it'll be damn hard uphill slogging from there. but there is a possibility of getting better. to be honest though, many people cling to depression like a warm comforting cloak and resist even believing that things can get better. but the responsibility for getting better is yours alone. you can reach out and get help, or not.

there are many treatments for PTSD (i have PTSD, in addition to major depression, anxiety, and aspects of OCD). you can google them and see - it's not a death sentence. but you have to be willing to let the pain go, and you have to be willing to be treated. suprisingly, not everyone wants to get better.

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Sweetleaf
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10 Jan 2012, 10:34 am

hyperlexian wrote:

the DSM is clear that there must be a change in mood in order to qualify as depression (bolded):

Quote:

Ok well it kinda feels like you're telling me all this comes down to is it being my fault.....I mean I did not even think about depression as a possiblity until my suicide attempt when I was 15. It was the mental health professional I ended up talking to who determined I had depression. So I don't think its really about me telling myself I am depressed while it not being the case.

And good for people who can remember having a better mental state...I guess.

Also, I feel like the environment is a huge factor in my depression so its natural that when the environment does not improve neither does the depression. Not to mention for someone already depressed having someone get shot at your school and ending up with PTSD is like a freaking hammer to the face. I know there are treatments for PTSD and that they can be effective especially if the individual is willing but its not always something one can get over. So I guess at this point I just don't have the will to try and improve my mental state too much and it sort of brings me down more when people criticize me for that........I mean I'm tired sometimes enough is enough and I need a break.

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hyperlexian
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10 Jan 2012, 11:04 am

^^^you're victimising yourself with my words.

if you became depressed then you had a period when you were not depressed. that period is accessible in your memories if you allow yourself to see it.

it's not your fault that bad things happened to you, but you can decide whether or not the rest of your life will be horrible or not. just deciding to improve doesn't fix anything, but it's the first step on the road. it is possible to get better. however, nobody else can force you to get there.

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Dillogic
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10 Jan 2012, 11:13 am

Children can suffer from clinical depression.

Man, I tried to kill myself with a kitchen knife when I was 5. Anxiety and depression is all I've known, and I know it's "depression" (not just because I've been told that by professionals), but because I understand what words mean; I'm ok with pragmatics for someone with an ASD. Reading descriptions is familiar to me. I'm on anti-ds, and they seem to help me now; I know what "happy" is now.

In regards to the OP, if people don't like reading what she writes, don't read it. If you want to help, make sure you know what you're dealing with.

b9
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10 Jan 2012, 11:30 am

sometimes i think that the world is made of stone.

congratulations and endorsements mean nothing to me.

i see nothing much that can influence my thoughts because i do not identify with anything.

if i get happy again, it will not be because of what anyone said to me.

i weigh a trillion tons and my trajectory though my life is unable to be changed because the momentum of my motion is unalterable by words from mouths that are not connected to my brain.

marshall
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10 Jan 2012, 11:36 am

Sweetleaf wrote:

I think the problem is the way you're looking at the logic. You're thinking something like this...

Either...

1.) There's nothing you can do and therefore it's not your "fault".
2.) If there is something you can possibly do, but it doesn't work, it's your "fault" for failing.

I think its better to just remove the idea of being at "fault" from the equation completely. Then there is nothing to lose by trying.

Tequila
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10 Jan 2012, 11:38 am

hyperlexian wrote:

Take this woman's advice, Sweetleaf. You can get better - it will be a very long and painful slog but it is possible. We'll be here to give you advice along the way.

At the end of the day, though, it's all up to you.

Sweetleaf
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10 Jan 2012, 11:44 am

hyperlexian wrote:

^^^you're victimising yourself with my words.

I'm not sure what you mean, that's just what it seemed like the messege kinda was so its how it made me feel.

if you became depressed then you had a period when you were not depressed. that period is accessible in your memories if you allow yourself to see it.

Well I did not really have a very happy childhood....even before I was 5 I had some incidents with pre-schools. So yeah even my earliest memories are not that fun to look back on. If I could remember how I felt even before that I imagine I would have a hard time relating to an infant so I am not sure that memory would really help much. What your asking of me here is kind of impossible I mean don't you get it? There was not a good time in my life period, never was so I don't really expect there to be because I don't like being constantly dissapointed.

it's not your fault that bad things happened to you, but you can decide whether or not the rest of your life will be horrible or not. just deciding to improve doesn't fix anything, but it's the first step on the road. it is possible to get better. however, nobody else can force you to get there.

Improve what though? I've spent a good part of my life trying to improve only to fail miserably...at this point I might as well just cope with what I have the best I can. I guess I am not after that road you describe.

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emlion
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10 Jan 2012, 11:48 am

Ahhh Hyperlexian, if only i'd seen that advice a year ago i'd have been so much better off. You're so inspirational sometimes. :heart:

Sweetleaf, i spent a great deal of my life feeling like you're feeling. 'whats the point in even trying, because even when i do things get worse' type mentality. also, not saying this is your case, but i think on an underlying level i kind of accepting being miserable because it's the path of least resistance, and it was familiar and safe in it's own way.

but anyway, eventually i started to accept what other people were saying (after a particularly bad bout of self harm and being sent to hospital etc) because i knew i just couldn't live that way anymore.
i still have my depressed days, where my own PTSD (from multiple rapes, and years of abuse and forced prostitution) and psychosis is too much too handle and i get knocked down, self harm and give up for a short while, however, i always try and pick myself back up and be positive - go back to my therapist, take my medication etc and i've found (although it's taken a long long time and a lot of falling over and being picked back up (by the help of my friends and boyfriend mostly, but also by willpower)) that over time the panic attacks, psychosis and self harm have become gradually less and less.

i look back at my journals (great things to keep when you're depressed, i think) and read how i spoke about my life, prospects, self, past and future and see how far i've come.
i recall writing over and over how i'd 'never' do this, or 'never' do that and 'always' feel like this. but the truth is, things change if you work at them, circumstances, feelings, hopes, dreams etc. just have to fight like a dog sometimes to get what you want....that was kind of a ramble, but i hope i got my point partially across at least...

Tequila
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10 Jan 2012, 11:49 am

If that's how you feel, no-one else can help you. No-one else can help you if you won't help yourself. It's a very bitter truth to face but it's truth just the same.

You need to rid yourself of that manky comfort blanket (which is disease-ridden anyway) and look towards the road. If you take the road, brighter times will - eventually - come. Perhaps in a few years you'll be amazed at your progress. And that would be something to really be proud of.

Sweetleaf
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10 Jan 2012, 11:53 am

I guess to put it bluntly I am kinda at the point where I feel like trying to recover, improve or get better seems far to overwhelming and stressfull and has proved to be far too tiring the times I have really tried.

So I guess I don't see what is so bad about just accepting whats wrong and coping with it, rather then pushing myself to make a bunch of self improvements I don't have the energy for. I mean that is just where my minds at, sorry if that offends anyone or whatever just trying to describe exactly whats going on.

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Sweetleaf
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10 Jan 2012, 12:01 pm

emlion wrote:

Ahhh Hyperlexian, if only i'd seen that advice a year ago i'd have been so much better off. You're so inspirational sometimes. :heart:

Sweetleaf, i spent a great deal of my life feeling like you're feeling. 'whats the point in even trying, because even when i do things get worse' type mentality. also, not saying this is your case, but i think on an underlying level i kind of accepting being miserable because it's the path of least resistance, and it was familiar and safe in it's own way.

Actually that is pretty close to how I feel about it right now.....besides if I don't expect things to get a whole lot better I'm not dissapointed when they don't.

but anyway, eventually i started to accept what other people were saying (after a particularly bad bout of self harm and being sent to hospital etc) because i knew i just couldn't live that way anymore.
i still have my depressed days, where my own PTSD (from multiple rapes, and years of abuse and forced prostitution) and psychosis is too much too handle and i get knocked down, self harm and give up for a short while, however, i always try and pick myself back up and be positive - go back to my therapist, take my medication etc and i've found (although it's taken a long long time and a lot of falling over and being picked back up (by the help of my friends and boyfriend mostly, but also by willpower)) that over time the panic attacks, psychosis and self harm have become gradually less and less.

i look back at my journals (great things to keep when you're depressed, i think) and read how i spoke about my life, prospects, self, past and future and see how far i've come.
i recall writing over and over how i'd 'never' do this, or 'never' do that and 'always' feel like this. but the truth is, things change if you work at them, circumstances, feelings, hopes, dreams etc. just have to fight like a dog sometimes to get what you want....that was kind of a ramble, but i hope i got my point partially across at least...

Also that is what you are supposed to do...at least that is what most therapists seem to say, basically try and pick yourself up be positive and such. I guess the trouble with me as I am not so keen on the pick yourself back up and be positive, its like I just have no motivation to do that. But yeah If I ever do manage to get to a point where I feel like I really want to try and improve that would probably be a good way to go about it..........though I would probably not be willing to take psych meds unless its something that actually relaxes me not something that makes me anxious and psychotic like anti-depressants do.

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hyperlexian
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10 Jan 2012, 12:03 pm

emlion wrote:

Ahhh Hyperlexian, if only i'd seen that advice a year ago i'd have been so much better off. You're so inspirational sometimes. :heart:

Sweetleaf, i spent a great deal of my life feeling like you're feeling. 'whats the point in even trying, because even when i do things get worse' type mentality. also, not saying this is your case, but i think on an underlying level i kind of accepting being miserable because it's the path of least resistance, and it was familiar and safe in it's own way.

but anyway, eventually i started to accept what other people were saying (after a particularly bad bout of self harm and being sent to hospital etc) because i knew i just couldn't live that way anymore.
i still have my depressed days, where my own PTSD (from multiple rapes, and years of abuse and forced prostitution) and psychosis is too much too handle and i get knocked down, self harm and give up for a short while, however, i always try and pick myself back up and be positive - go back to my therapist, take my medication etc and i've found (although it's taken a long long time and a lot of falling over and being picked back up (by the help of my friends and boyfriend mostly, but also by willpower)) that over time the panic attacks, psychosis and self harm have become gradually less and less.

i look back at my journals (great things to keep when you're depressed, i think) and read how i spoke about my life, prospects, self, past and future and see how far i've come.
i recall writing over and over how i'd 'never' do this, or 'never' do that and 'always' feel like this. but the truth is, things change if you work at them, circumstances, feelings, hopes, dreams etc. just have to fight like a dog sometimes to get what you want....that was kind of a ramble, but i hope i got my point partially across at least...

thank you for that. but look at you and how far you've come. i remember some of your first posts and i've seen a dramatic transformation. you did it, and i hope you are proud. thank you for sharing your progress. :heart:

for me, day to day i am still stumbling, then pulling myself back up again, and stumbling again. whenever i think i am better i get worse again. sometimes i feel like my meds and therapy are holding me together like duct tape and staples on a wrecked-up car. it's probably going to be a lifelong battle for me but i am not going to give up, and i have made an ongoing conscious decision to make my life as long and as fulfilling as possible. since i'm alive anyways i may as well make my life worth living.

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emlion
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10 Jan 2012, 12:04 pm

anti-anxieties worked better for me than anti-depressants.
& oh definitely, you have to want to put 100% into it, i tried a few times when I only put 50% into it, and it didn't even make a tiny impact.
i thought of it more, and the difference was i really have something to fight for now, perhaps?

i'm not sure. but i think you've come to the conclusion to stay as you are, to avoid even more potential heartbreak/pain?

Tequila
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10 Jan 2012, 12:10 pm

hyperlexian wrote:

Word.

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