help me I'm in hell

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Hi,

I'm after some advice on possible medication or other options. I'm most lightly ASD with ADHD/ADD, predominant issues are emotional, concentration, anxiety (though not at the moment). Generally I'm 'blunt', and when I experience emotions I get them in a physical / psycho-psychical way and not in a conscious way. Emotions don't bind to memories really, except for fear.

Any for about the past 3 weeks or so (can't quite work out how long, about 3 weeks seems about right) I've been nearly completely dysfunctional. Had a couple of days where I was ok, but for the first couple of weeks or so I was often sleeping for up to 36 hours at a time, or only being awake for a short period of the night.

The last week or so I've only had a very short period of sleep, was OK for the first couple of days then became progressively more exhausted even after the short period of sleep.
Had three short burst of REM last night, didn't loose consciousness for 2 of them, the third wasn't long enough for deep sleep. I'm slightly more within but feeling sick/ butterflys in stomach kind of feeling, having great difficulty holding myself up and am about to go back to bed after I've written this.

Anyhow, I get this from time to time following emotional stress situations, sometimes it can last for month and months, sometime I just randomly pass out etc.. (indistinguishable from nympholepsy). The doctors have never so far given anything me that helps, I'll go through what I've tried, what the effects are and see if any of you have any suggestions. I'm a very all or nothing person, predominantly I'm 'blunt' and have been for all my life, otherwise my emotions are more extrema, same goes for pain, sound perception etc....


Anti-depresants. (I've been through most dosage levels for most things, only prozak has ever had any affect on my mood, generally antidepressants if anything make my anxiety (or what ever you call positive anxiety) worse)
SSRI:
Prozak (fluozatine?) : Mild mania, paranoia/psychosis (aware of the paranoia and psychosis so not really quite psychosis), takes a few days to take effect. If any thing, slept less.
Citalopram (Celexa): No notable effects.
NaSSAs:
Mirtazapine (Remeron, Avanza, Zispin) : Normal sleep, extended. Random almost total loss of control, near passing out whilst walking. Effect didn't subside with increased dosage or prolongued usage.
Tricyclic antidepressants:
Amitriptyline (Elavil, Endep): No noticeable effects:

Anti-Psychotics: (again, been through the mill with all I've tried (where side effects were tollarable!), all had severe, sometimes so severe I was unaware, debilitating side effects, all made majority of symptoms worse, except for not having a mild elevated mood in periods of 'possitive' anxiety which I would consider making things worse, positive moods were much, much more extrema when I had them, all completely and utterly shot my concentration away to peaces, could do a thing for years, concentration so bad I couldn't even work out what was wrong)
Risperidone (Risperdal): Psychosis, daily. Body and mind waking up separately, prolonged sleep, no help in getting off to sleep. Mild turettes like symptoms (compulsive swearing), anxiety went to obsessive level, no concentration whatsoever (try being obsessed and having absolutely no concentration), mania, depression, constant passing gross exaggeration of my hyperactivity, ('gay' arms, best description we've come up with!), walking around with one or other or both arms elevated to 90 degrees with a limp wrist, strange pins and needless sensations that went all over my body, nearly called an ambulance on one occasion. Periods of addiction or binging on food (put on about 5.5-6 stone, up to 19 stone+), and various stimulants or just binging on anything I could get my hands on. Symptoms got much better I'd have to say!





sorry, I'll finish this off later. bit shot away at the moment, and am going to lie down.

I am just wondering, maybe I missed that. What is being done about the ADHD dx you got?
As far as I could see none of your meds specifically targeted that problem.

wow, that is a lot of meds. i can't say this will work for you, but when i was younger i had similar issues, on to the present. i fought off my demons by vigorous physical exercise. i would run 4 miles daily and then swim a mile's worth of laps most days. this made me so tired that i just rested the remainder of my off-duty [army] time. i was too tired to be bothered by much of anything, and was hellafit as a bonus. exercise also clears away much of the mental fog. off and on, i have continued exercising to the present day.

ADHD,

Nothing, been trying to get a diagnosis for around 2 years. (Tried various stimulants, been taking coffee etc.. TO GET TO SLEEP AT NIGHT!! since I can remember, that one didn't hit the nail on the head either).
I'm currently diagnoses with schitzoaffective disorder (not to an uncommon miss-diagosis).

anti-psychotics (which lower not raise dopamine levels), made my concentration sooo bad that I didn't even realize how bad it was, also got symptoms of psychosis etc... and generally everything got worse, protested my diagnosis since I was diagnosed (around 6 years ago) on several occasions, even refused to see one of the psychiatrists because she just plain made things up. She couldn't work out why the meds weren't holding me etc... infact the only real 'psychosis' I've ever had before that was hearing voices (two incidents of one sentence several years apart), psychosis induced by prozak and very mild visuals that were kind of migrane like and lasted for nearly two years (long after I went on the anti-psych). Also had some odd sensory problems, I've discovered that i get them mainly when under great emotional stress and prior to falling asleep or when I'm tired now a-days. (stopped a while ago, after I'd been of the meds for a while, possibly says something as I don't believe I had them before I went on any meds). Tendancies have been to blame 'drugs' what ever that's supposed to mean, but by way of narcotics. I think I'd only tried hallucinogens once prior to developing any of the visuals, and everything else I'd not really taken any drugs until I went quite down hill and started grasping at straws. And even then not heavily etc.. (tried a few things, a little bit over about a year, then stopped completely for well over a year or possibly two) until I had the problems on the anti-psychotics.

Predominantly I believe my problems have been three fold, 1: I've only had male psychiatrists, and I find that they 'try' to be logical, but don't quite do it to the extent I do. Hence communication breakdown. 2: There more inclined to believe my existing diagnosis and that I'm just psychotic than myself. 3: (see the adult ADHD site for more details), there is an acute lack of training and knowledge (both relating to high functioning ASD and ADHD), including failure to implement NICE guidelines that have been in-place for some time. Amongst not only general practitioners, but also, as I have now discovered they are, general psychiatrists.

I believe this is because they are so overworked that they do not even have time to do a little extra research into their own fields other than the education they have been given. Though if they had actually listened to me then maybe they wouldn't have had so much work to do, but I digress.

Anyhow, my family is going private (for diagnosis). I have a new (but so far useless, but at least listening and spending time with me), CPN (community psychiatric nurse), though I've not been able to get hold of her for a while, and my old one who said she would be there, has only responded to one text message.

I am more concerned with getting treatment for ADHD than anything else as it's the predominant cause of my problems (stimulants make the 'anxiety' go away, the anxiety is probably just racing thoughts as when I'm on a bit more of a roll it's positive, lots of ideas about good an wonderful things, but when I'm on a downer it's negative. When I'm well occupied with interesting and new things, so reasonably well stimulated it also goes away.

My CPN has asked me to provide some history (I already gave a number of statements from friends and family to the shrink quite some time ago), so I've got in contact with old people from school via facebook and got several statements (I provided the list of symptoms used for diagnosis of ADHD in younger people, and also mentioned asperger's).

Anyhow, I'll complete the list of meds and effects (You think that's long, you wait till I'm done!! !) shortly. I can just about focus on pulling a stream of thought out of my head at the moment. Looking up the meds and alternate names and recalling what it was like, along with combinations etc... is a little strenuous for me at the moment.

Generally cognitive approaches are the only real thing that kick me out of this (that is finding something to counter the emotional response), but that required being a state of mind and body to be able to both identify and carry out the action out thoughts or whatever that resolve the issue. (unusually this results with immediate effect and me flipping to positive to very positive). You can see where they got the idea of bi-polar from, though usually with more general depression and the like my moods don't flip-flop like that, and I flip-flip between other emotional (and psychically emotional) states. I wouldn't say I was depressed as such, more blunted but stressed, depression may follow.

Generally today had been a bit more productive, less wishy-washy, been having 'busts' of more normality then having to rest and recuperate and push all the 'poison' out of myself more meditatively before getting another burst, tomorrow who knows!

I always wonder how people with "light" ASD support themselves. I mean, I would love to sleep for 36 hours but that damn pesky job keeps getting in the way.

Merle

If I could pace a hundred miles, if I could tap my fingers 100 more.

Used to run 400 meters in sub 50 when I was 15 at school, school records for long distance as well, always well in from for cross country, didn't learn to drive till I was 24, lived in the country side so cycled a hell of a lot. Generally didn't work too well, but helps a little.

I suppose the first time I can remember getting like this was after I'd been doing a paper round for quite some time. About 2 full bundles (or whatever there called of papers) say about 60-70 papers in total, delivered over quite some distance, up and down hills etc... took over two hours.

I should add that when I was 15+ (up until about 16 or so), I'd be up until say 6AM maybe later in the morning, have to leave to get the school bus at 8:10.

There's a lot here to address, and I won't get to nearly all of it. I'm currently in a similar situation with regards to psychiatry, though I'm fortunate not to be experiencing symptoms anything like what is happening to you. My girlfriend's psychiatrist, whom I have gone with her to see a few times, seems to believe very strongly that I have a psychotic spectrum disorder. He doesn't believe me about my self-diagnosed AS at all, and shut me down when I was describing my own symptoms and history to tell me about alternative diagnoses I had already read about. He clearly does not respect my intelligence or my ability to be rationally introspective, and he recently told my girlfriend's parents that he thinks I should be on mood stabilizers, which is illegal and a huge violation of my trust and privacy.

So you're not alone. There is a sick, sad number of Aspies and ADHD adults out there being misdiagnosed with psychiatric conditions and having their lives ruined. Psychiatrists seem to imagine that if you get to adulthood and act functional, then you don't have a PDD, and they seem to think that you can't be an aspie and have a few social skills.

Back to you, you may just be a hypomanic person, perhaps some of the time and perhaps all of the time. Lots of people are, and it's often a very helpful condition. It's said that Edison slept at most 4 hours a night most of his life, and that he invented the light bulb so he could stay up late and work. If that's the way you are, and it sounds like you've been that way for a long time, then it's up to you to decide whether or not you want to be that way. What was the original complaint that got you on meds to begin with? Was it a problem you were having, or a problem someone else had with you?

It is not at all surprising that SSRIs and other serotonergic drugs would make you manic and nearly psychotic. It is a known fact that people with manic tendencies are likely to exhibit them on those drugs, and they act on the same brain areas that psychedelic hallucinogens do. Whoever is prescribing you those drugs is acting irresponsibly, and possibly illegally. Anti-psychotics clearly aren't working either. I took Zyprexa twice last summer when the same incompetent doctor diagnosed me as manic (despite the fact that I remained rational, listened to commentary about my state, and self-regulated back down). That s**t made me *more* psychotic, and I felt like a dissociated zombie the next morning. Those drugs weren't right for me, and they don't sound right for you either.

There is a natural compound called GHB that occurs in animal muscle and nervous tissues. It is neuroprotective, promotes restful sleep, and helps rebuild damaged muscles. It also shows promise as an anti-depressant (though it is not serotonergic), and there have been trials for treatment of SSRI discontinuation syndrome, which I can almost guarantee you is part of your current problem. Unfortunately, it is also a Schedule 1 drug in the USA and illegal in many other places as well. However, there is a preparation called Xyrem that is very tightly controlled and is only prescribed to narcoleptics. Since you are experiencing narcolepsy and muscle weakness, you might actually be able to get the stuff. Unfortunately, you get gouged like hell on the price because the DEA is involved, and insurance may or may not cover it. If you do get hold of Xyrem, just make sure that you absolutely *do not* abuse it. Take it exactly as prescribed, after titrating to get the right dose. If you're a compulsive drug user, ask someone else to control your dosage.

I would also recommend that you find a new doctor ASAP. If you have insurance, call your provider and ask if there are any nearby doctors who specifically work with ASDs and have experience with adults. If there's none around, which is fairly likely, try a neuropsychologist. You need someone who will look at your brain states and your developmental history, rather than relying solely on external reading of your symptoms. Stop going to psychiatrists. They are nothing but drug dealers, and they are not trained to understand PDDs.


I'd be happy to talk to you a bit more in private messages. It sounds like we have a lot in common.

The problem isn't you. It's the world. Good luck.
-ck

you may just be a hypomanic person:

Well that's the thing, I neither manic nor depressive enough? or get the rest of the symptoms at the correct timing and intervals for bi-polar. Predominantly I'm blunted.

A bit more history,

Learned to walk and talk at 6 months,
Doing 1000+ piece jigsaws at the age of 2,
Solving problems such as 'best value', price / weight before the age of 4,
Teachers were getting me to help the other kids in the class with their maths problems at age of just under 6, because I'd put my pen down seconds after they had finished giving their questions.
Just over the age of 6, realized that other children were different from me, they were emotive.
Promptly refused to go to school,
Mother took me to child psychiatrist, diagnosed with (being naughty or things to that effect)
From then on, pretty much avoided everyone, talking to people etc...
Moved schools, spent lunch breaks with the teachers or on the computer instead of playing with other children, or had very isolated bonds with a few children (one at a time) if I did mix.
One school mate who has an ASD child now says I was pretty much typical, no social timing what soever, talking at odd times, 'narrow' interest subjects etc...

Total lack of concentration, never done a single piece of homework, shouting out in class, constantly fidgeting etc... never had a good nights sleep (except when I get really drunk or after taking small quantities of amphetamines).

Racing thoughts etc... are not 'euphoric' or 'depressive' per-say, when 'elevated' is more of a on the ball experience (hyper-focus) than euphoria associated with bi-polar.

Triggers are all environmentally linked, and usually quite quick even before I know it). This is not the pattern associated with bi-polar etc...

Reduced or increased (acute both ways mainly) to sound, light, touch, pain, emotions etc...

Unable to 'read' emotive content in either writing or tone of voice or body language. (I couldn't tell that the file Beaor wolf didn't have real actors in it for instance a as don'[t perceive the minor emotional expression in body language)

No understanding or experience of concepts such as 'choice' or 'free will', essentially I do everything logically and when something emotional it's 'controlling' not related to any concept of choice.

Constantly pacing, tapping my fingers / legs, singing whatever give me some form of stimulation. Start of exceptionally well on new 'exciting' things, gradually fade a little then get near totally mental block as I feel as if it's boring me to death.

When well stimulated, racing thoughts (anxiety etc...) go away, sleep improves somewhat, can lead to hyper focus.

I am very acute emotionally, either all or nothing. So if I'm taking something that is intended to 'raise' my emotion, if it does raise it, yes it's more manic. But the thing is I have nothing in-between blunt and manic or blunt and depressed. (well that's not quite true I do have two maybe three different types of elevation, excluding obsessed and hyper-focused. I would say, on the ball, happy (not very useful at times), exceptionally rarely on the ball, happy and obsessed at the same time (not euphoric).
I also have frustrated (come across as anger, impatient, raised tone of voice etc...), Angry (only happened to me three-four times in my life I think) smashing things, thumping walls etc... not directed at anyone as I don't partition blame (I know people have no free will and have done all my life, so I could never blame someone)

Cognately, in a more general scene, I get a lot of fear associated with having to deal with other people. This is because people are often emotional and I can't work out what their response may be. The fear is isolated in my mind and has no paths for which I can use to resolve or negotiate it, sometimes I can isolate what's causing the fear and then mitigate, thus changing the context in which my brain has lead to 'harm to myself', into one in which the harm has been mitigated and as such I no longer experience the fear.

Also things like if for instance i want to change a behavior pattern I have. I have to have a strong logical reason to do so, or 'borrow' desire from other people and assert that that desire would be beneficial to them, and then wait for that behavior to happen (such that I experience the context in which it is formed cognitively) and then attach a counter to that context/concept or associative memory such that the next time it comes up the counter is present and I may act upon that instead of my previous response.

I don't think that fits in with 'a hypomanic person', though they may have similar cognitive processes to myself. So far as I can attribute myself it predominantly down to acute (high/low both in threshold and response) sensory (including emotional) perception, thus forming acute concepts and responses. Some of my sensory perception is more along the typical lines, in general I believe.

i also require lots of stimulation, get very easily board, have poor concentration etc...

From what I've read and the people I've meat and spoken too. Best fit is ASD and ADHD. bi-polar is quite distinct, I'd have to have 101 polar for that to be a co-morbidity. Far to broad to be borderline personality disorder, and not pervasive enough (i.e. 'things associated with a personality disorder aren't there most of the time')

i could go on.

Anyhow, had a 'special' cup of coffee, seems to have done the trick. Hopefully will get a good nights sleep now.

I'll finish off the rest of the thread later on. In-case a: tomorrow goes tits up and b: so I've got a good reference written up (in terms of the effects of substances on my state of being and not so much in my general state of being as that would go on and on and on and on, unless of course there's someone who's interested (I can quite happily go on and on as I'm sure you can no-doubt tell by the fact that my posts probably don't fit of the height of your screen)

If you are interested in reading more about my own case, and possibly comparing it to yours, you can check out this thread here: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp2753566 ... t=#2753566

I have another very intelligent AS-seeming friend who is currently diagnosed with severe bipolar disorder and on disability. When he started going manic, he lost his job as a software developer because they thought he was going insane, which he is not. I hope it's useful to you to know that you're not alone.

-ck

"So you're not alone. There is a sick, sad number of Aspies and ADHD adults out there being misdiagnosed with psychiatric conditions and having their lives ruined. Psychiatrists seem to imagine that if you get to adulthood and act functional, then you don't have a PDD, and they seem to think that you can't be an aspie and have a few social skills. "

I've been told, amongst many other things for which I would have done much better if they had said, hey I'm worked of my f*****g arse, they told me a little bit about it at uni and really I don't know s**t)
I would have been diagnoses when I was younger. (If I had realized that they don't know s**t I would have told them that Asperger's didn't have any form of diagnosis criteria until I was in my late teens, so it would have been impossible to have been diagnosed earlier)
They are childhood conditions (even when that guy was on TV because the US wanted to export him for hacking). If I'd have know about that unlike myself (self taught) they didn't have time to do any extended research into their field, then I would have said that I can look up some peer reviewed papers for him and nice guide lines to the countarary.

When I realized that the real problem was that they don't actually know that much I went round researching myself. The kind of arrogance seems to be typical amongst people like post grads and many PHDs, presumably because their in the belief that they have somehow been bestowed knowledge with and worked their arses off where others have fallen by the wayside and that their-for makes them more 'authoritive' to the absolute than those that have not succeed in that path.

I'm not sure what they would say about say Einstein or savants. Those kind of people don't tend to make it in the systems and institutions they have spent their lives in.

Hey this is a weird question, but relevant- are you overly thin with eyes that protrude a bit- "bug" eyes? Dont be offended- I am going somewhere with this.

nope.

been between 13 and 19.5 stone since I was say, 15-16 and now 33-34.
currently I'm around 14 stone after loosing all the weight I put on on the anti-psychs.

I did have a problem with sinusitis a lot when I was younger and on a couple of occasions it made one of my eyes protrude a bit.

I should say, my weight has been stable for quite while, went up a bit recently again, got it back down.
Haven't weighted myself in the last month or so, but I expect something may have changed a little.

(I don't recommend doing this)

Took around 70mg of unknown purity, composition, allegedly amphetamine base. Probably about mid day yesterday.

Picked me up and cleared my head for quite a while, then went back to more or less the same state I was in yes morning a lot later in the evening.

Has some difficulty getting off to sleep (things I'd had before taking the amph), but after a little patients and changing sleeping places three time, and putting ear plugs in. I drifted of quite nicely. Woke one in the night, but went back easily.

Woke and promptly got up at about 6:30 this morning, (probably dropped of around 12AM last night), bit of grumbles in the tummy (feels like / probably is wind) but apart from that very bright and breezy.

Oh, also the near bottle of port I quite, but not too, quickly drank after feeling a bit more out of it yest eve may well have helped. Though I usually have to drink twice that amount for it to help with getting of to sleep and for me to wake up bright and breezy in the morning.
I've never had a hangover, except through alcohol poisoning when I was younger, in-fact I get the opposite. Done a alcohol breath test in mornings like that before and mostly metabolized the alcohol, so it's not just that I'm waking up still drunk.

also the judge extended the court order until next week and I discovered that my financial situation had kind of sorted itself out.