Is it really worth it?

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Joined: 6 Jan 2011
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10 Jul 2011, 10:51 pm

I can't think of anything really worth living for. Yeah there are some people who care but I feel like I'll only end up hurting them. I know what kind of person I am, I know if an oppurtunity to go down the path i was headed down about a year ago presents itself I won't hesitate to jump back into that game so to speak. I feel like its hopeless......I mean it is clear to me that there will be no working my way up societies ladder for me.......but I am not sure I can handle the alternatives so that leaves me in a state of feeling like I would be better off dead. And I guess they were all right, I am nothing but a loser destined to lose in life.

I just did not have anyone to talk to, I don't know what to say to any of my family about this. lately I have just been acting in such a manner that does not suggest anything being wrong, I guess I have been a little irritable lately but that more just offends others rather then making them think maybe something is wrong and i am not just trying to be a jerk.

So how do I convince myself its worth it?

SammichEater
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11 Jul 2011, 2:04 am

Think of something that would be worth dieing for. Something that you wouldn't mind sacrificing yourself for. Would you die to save your family? Would you be willing to die for your country? Would you sacrifice yourself for a cause that you believe in?

If you can't think of anything worth dieing for, then what do you have to live for?

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mr4nders0n
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11 Jul 2011, 3:49 am

I couldn't read this and not reply.
I am totally unsurprised when i realise that some people seem to think that life is s**t & what's the bleeding point. But I can never agree with them. that's not because i totally disagree with that opinion 100% of the time, or because i'm happy all the time. i have suffered (and probably constantly, still) from having to subsist in an inhumane, sick, demented, perverted human society. i've held this opinion from vague beginning at least since teenage, possibly earlier (& it probably came to a head when i was round about your age, funnily enough). I am disgusted with how humans organise themselves, considering their beautiful potential. i look at life (and i'm not referring to the physical or biological aspects i'm talking about that mysterious animating force within everyone and everything that lives) and see nothing but absolute pure amazing overwhelming beauty (and i probably always have). and that's within all of us. beyond this, we as humans have the ability to know that this is what we are and have, and even more amazing, we can know we know it. this is what keeps me going, and i don't mean like a light at the end of a tunnel, more like a supernovae in my heart expanding outwards.
i know some of the stuff i'm saying here may sound depressing (but u gotta admit, some of it is the opposite too ! !! ), but the point is if one knows one is contributing to THE GOOD then one can be proud of oneself and as far as i'm concerned, that's all one needs to do to be a "social success", use your own standard for what's worthwhile in society, not societies, since human society tends towards greed and that's not exactly what i'd call "positive contribution". And all one has to do is be a good person. that's ALL one needs to contribute. you might of guessed by now, but i don't personally put so high a regard on climbing social ladders or social acceptance, quite the opposite, i consider it a most reprehensible occupation considering the fact that the major human social construct: capitalism, is based on animal urges instead of humane goals, so then, what's to hail ? Yeah ok so there's plenty of "charities" and "works of charity" that exist and they are, without a doubt, more than commendable, but they are not the norm and yeah there's definately plenty of really beautiful (spritually-speaking) people out there, but filling one's pockets and getting to the top (usually at the extreme detriment to everyone and everything else) is the norm. the whole social economic system seems to me to be keeping us all braindead slaves. i'm pretty sure i don't need to suggest that you follow the sufi maxim "be in the world, but not of it", this is probably what's causing you angst. Crazily enough, not "being in the world, but not of it" is what causes me angst. if people actually tried to be nice to each other when they're driving, or when at work as well as at home or at nice social gatherings, the world would definately be a better place. and if one is a decent person more often than not, then at least one can be proud of contributing to the world (human society, i mean) being a better place. what better "occupation" could one have. do yourself a favour and (this might sound a bit weird, but ...) do something good for someone, then ... , well you might end up being totally unappreciated (bloody typical), so do something else that's good for someone, until either you are appreciated, or you see the positive outcome of your good work. see how that makes you feel. i dunno about you, but it's nearly as much fun as making money. (ok ok i'm being sarcastic now) but you get my general gist yeah ? if not then tell me i'm talking out of my arse and i'll try and explain to you my sentiments a little clearer (unless i really am talking BS, then that can't be made clear can it). when u said "Yeah there are some people who care but I feel like I'll only end up hurting them", i couldn't help thinking that the greatest most terrible amount of pain you could ever visit on someone who cares or loves you would be achieved by topping yourself, so i'm sorry, but your argument just doesn't hold water ! !! crissakes, your only 21, i bloody wish i was only 21 ! !! take a bit of advice of an old(ish) bastard, enjoy your youth ! !! and make the most of YOUR LIFE, to hell with "fitting in with society" or "climbing ladders" it's not important, take a leaf out of alan watts' book u tube ... watch ... ?v=ERbvKrH-GC4.
i really really really do hope that you realise that life itself is the point, and if you can't hack that then live for the good of others. my missus & daughter are both in bed asleep (lazy sods), i woke up several hours ago and couldn't get back to sleep, so i ended up "farting around" on the internet for a bit. i KNOW they'd both have the same sentiment. i don't know you, & neither does my missus or my daughter , but I know they'd wish u well if/when i point out your plight to them. i'm pretty sure i can say this on their behalf as well as my own, look after yourself, we wish you well, our hearts go out to you. oh and could you do me a favour & wish my daughter a happy birthday, she's 20 today.
ps it seems to me i've got loads of friends that i have to have this sort of conversation with from time to time, and the single most depressing thought i could have is that i can't help them or i'm "too late", seriously, look after yourself ! !! !!

Sweetleaf
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11 Jul 2011, 11:14 am

mr4nders0n wrote:

I couldn't read this and not reply.
I am totally unsurprised when i realise that some people seem to think that life is sh** & what's the bleeding point. But I can never agree with them. that's not because i totally disagree with that opinion 100% of the time, or because i'm happy all the time. i have suffered (and probably constantly, still) from having to subsist in an inhumane, sick, demented, perverted human society. i've held this opinion from vague beginning at least since teenage, possibly earlier (& it probably came to a head when i was round about your age, funnily enough). I am disgusted with how humans organise themselves, considering their beautiful potential. i look at life (and i'm not referring to the physical or biological aspects i'm talking about that mysterious animating force within everyone and everything that lives) and see nothing but absolute pure amazing overwhelming beauty (and i probably always have). and that's within all of us. beyond this, we as humans have the ability to know that this is what we are and have, and even more amazing, we can know we know it. this is what keeps me going, and i don't mean like a light at the end of a tunnel, more like a supernovae in my heart expanding outwards.
i know some of the stuff i'm saying here may sound depressing (but u gotta admit, some of it is the opposite too ! !! ), but the point is if one knows one is contributing to THE GOOD then one can be proud of oneself and as far as i'm concerned, that's all one needs to do to be a "social success", use your own standard for what's worthwhile in society, not societies, since human society tends towards greed and that's not exactly what i'd call "positive contribution". And all one has to do is be a good person. that's ALL one needs to contribute. you might of guessed by now, but i don't personally put so high a regard on climbing social ladders or social acceptance, quite the opposite, i consider it a most reprehensible occupation considering the fact that the major human social construct: capitalism, is based on animal urges instead of humane goals, so then, what's to hail ? Yeah ok so there's plenty of "charities" and "works of charity" that exist and they are, without a doubt, more than commendable, but they are not the norm and yeah there's definately plenty of really beautiful (spritually-speaking) people out there, but filling one's pockets and getting to the top (usually at the extreme detriment to everyone and everything else) is the norm. the whole social economic system seems to me to be keeping us all braindead slaves. i'm pretty sure i don't need to suggest that you follow the sufi maxim "be in the world, but not of it", this is probably what's causing you angst. Crazily enough, not "being in the world, but not of it" is what causes me angst. if people actually tried to be nice to each other when they're driving, or when at work as well as at home or at nice social gatherings, the world would definately be a better place. and if one is a decent person more often than not, then at least one can be proud of contributing to the world (human society, i mean) being a better place. what better "occupation" could one have. do yourself a favour and (this might sound a bit weird, but ...) do something good for someone, then ... , well you might end up being totally unappreciated (bloody typical), so do something else that's good for someone, until either you are appreciated, or you see the positive outcome of your good work. see how that makes you feel. i dunno about you, but it's nearly as much fun as making money. (ok ok i'm being sarcastic now) but you get my general gist yeah ? if not then tell me i'm talking out of my arse and i'll try and explain to you my sentiments a little clearer (unless i really am talking BS, then that can't be made clear can it). when u said "Yeah there are some people who care but I feel like I'll only end up hurting them", i couldn't help thinking that the greatest most terrible amount of pain you could ever visit on someone who cares or loves you would be achieved by topping yourself, so i'm sorry, but your argument just doesn't hold water ! !! crissakes, your only 21, i bloody wish i was only 21 ! !! take a bit of advice of an old(ish) bastard, enjoy your youth ! !! and make the most of YOUR LIFE, to hell with "fitting in with society" or "climbing ladders" it's not important, take a leaf out of alan watts' book u tube ... watch ... ?v=ERbvKrH-GC4.
i really really really do hope that you realise that life itself is the point, and if you can't hack that then live for the good of others. my missus & daughter are both in bed asleep (lazy sods), i woke up several hours ago and couldn't get back to sleep, so i ended up "farting around" on the internet for a bit. i KNOW they'd both have the same sentiment. i don't know you, & neither does my missus or my daughter , but I know they'd wish u well if/when i point out your plight to them. i'm pretty sure i can say this on their behalf as well as my own, look after yourself, we wish you well, our hearts go out to you. oh and could you do me a favour & wish my daughter a happy birthday, she's 20 today.
ps it seems to me i've got loads of friends that i have to have this sort of conversation with from time to time, and the single most depressing thought i could have is that i can't help them or i'm "too late", seriously, look after yourself ! !! !!

For some reason that was rather helpful....also I have to think about all that for a while so if anything it will put off the suicidal mindset. But yeah I sort of feel like no matter what amount of good I might do.....it will never make up for all the negatives.

wizzynoo
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11 Jul 2011, 11:55 am

Hi sweetleaf,
Dont give up on yourself, Your life can change course at any time. You can make that happen quicker or leave things alone and let the natural course happen naturally.
And it will definately change whether by you or not, as nothing goes on forever, and always changes.
If you are really fed up and feel that your life has no purpose, then make some purpose in it. Maybe decide to donate blood, go on the records to be a bone marrow donor, or an anonymous sperm donor? help a childless couple, help save a life. See what voluntary work you could get involved in, maybe with young teenagers in difficulty.

Think about a job career, and see if there is any help in helping you get started, and give yourself some purpose. Earn some money, save up for something special...a rock concert, holiday, guitar, etc...and then for a place of your own one day.

Get out of the house, when you can, and try and meet someone you could have a relationship with. try and involve yourself with sports, if you like sports. Just try anything to get yourself busy and take your mind off things a bit. Focus on other things that will bring you pleasure and satisfaction. And if you feel the need to talk, see if there are any free support groups near you, or a close relative you could confide in.
good luck, and dont dispair. we have all been there and survived ! !! ! Life has a good way of improving ones situation. And opportunities come along when least expecting them.

CaroleTucson
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11 Jul 2011, 12:20 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

So how do I convince myself its worth it?

Ah, the question that has faced the human species since we first climbed out of the trees. In the end, only you can decide the answer. It's entirely possible it may not be "worth it" to you.

But let me offer this thought ... many, many people have been in your situation, including lots of us here on this forum. I'd be willing to bet that a significant percentage of us have asked ourselves the same questions you're asking.

But somehow, someway, we have managed to muddle through. It ain't necessarily easy, as you certainly already know. All of us here have a handicap that's as real as a physical deformity. The fact that we don't need a wheelchair doesn't make it any less of a handicap.

My advice would be, first, to study what the great thinkers of history have to say about the meaning of life. Read some first-person experiences of people who survived terrible odds ... Holocaust survivors, abusive childhoods, horrific injuries. Maybe you'll find something that rings true to you. Or maybe not. It will be an interesting and eye-opening exercise, either way.

And second, find something beyond yourself to commit to. Whatever makes the most sense to you ... maybe it's religion, maybe it's volunteering to read to elderly people, maybe it's just a beloved pet ... whatever it is, find a way to go beyond yourself. You will be amazed at the sense of fufillment you can find.

I wish you the best of luck

Sweetleaf
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11 Jul 2011, 12:24 pm

wizzynoo wrote:

Well I am trying...I mean I am going to college and trying to do well with that, I will admit sometimes I feel more depressed in the summer because its so hot out I hardly have the energy to go to class and come back home without feeling exausted....heat and an already low energy level is not a good combination. But yeah I do try and get out and such. And of course if I just say or in this case type how I feel it helps a bit.

Sweetleaf
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11 Jul 2011, 12:34 pm

CaroleTucson wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

So how do I convince myself its worth it?

Well i have read about quite a few things like that in the past.....so there is no question that I can surivive if people have survived those things. I just feel like if I am around others too long I will just bring them down because I hardly have anything that positive to think about myself. And in psychology I learned you pretty much have to take care of yourself before you can hope to do a lot of good for anyone else. I guess I feel like I have hardly made it to commiting myself to my life or anything in general let alone anything more.

wizzynoo
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11 Jul 2011, 12:47 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

hmm, the weather can make us all fed up at times, and too much heat will tire most people out. Stick in at college and maybe concentrate on doing exceptionally well. Learn and research on the internet and study more than whats expected, and show everyone that you are good. And good grade may help you gat a better job. Its well worth trying for.

Sweetleaf
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11 Jul 2011, 12:54 pm

wizzynoo wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

Well it is something to keep me busy, I don't know how much it will help with getting a job though. I probably will end up working for low wages either way if I ever do manage to get a job. I am kind of in college becuase i could not find a job.....I will have to try again though as I got denied for SSI and don't even know if I am going to be able keep this college thing up.

wizzynoo
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11 Jul 2011, 1:29 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

Another avenue, is not to assume that you will work for someone and in a low paid job, but think more positively about any ideas you have on self-employment. Maybe spend some time looking at all the self-employed jobs on the internet and see if you could do any of them, if you studied at home for them. Have faith in yourself that you will be good at doing some of them, and never be able to do others, but the internet, website designing, etc, theres lots of choices nowadays. Think big and not small. most sucessful businesses started out very small, and grew and grew over time. I have been self-employed for 10 years and starting up a new self-employed business this week. You are in a very good position. You are young. You dont have a mortgage and responsibilities like paying bills, finding food to put on the table, etc, make the most of it and maybe try something for yourself while you have the opportunity to, without the things that prevent others from being in a position to.

puddingmouse
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11 Jul 2011, 2:20 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

I just did not have anyone to talk to, I don't know what to say to any of my family about this. lately I have just been acting in such a manner that does not suggest anything being wrong, I guess I have been a little irritable lately but that more just offends others rather then making them think maybe something is wrong and i am not just trying to be a jerk.

I don't really have anything to say about the overall topic other than life if what you make it and all those cliches.

I just want to say that I can really relate to this. People assume I have an attitude problem rather than depression because I try to be tough, keep going and do as much as I can. My family care about me a lot but I honestly don't have anything to say to them when I'm down. I've tried in the past and it only freaked them out. The only thing other people can do is try to be understanding, and so few of them ever manage that, so it's not worth telling people.

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Sweetleaf
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11 Jul 2011, 3:24 pm

wizzynoo wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

I don't think I am motivated to accomplish any self employment...I mean I can't imagine how people do that, I would imagine it takes at least half way decent social skills and the ability not to be manipulated and such. I really don't even know of any jobs I would want that involve the internet I guess.

Sweetleaf
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11 Jul 2011, 3:29 pm

puddingmouse wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

Exactly, but yeah I really don't know what to say to anyone...I mean I almost totally went off on my moms boyfriend because he was being an ass kind of but also he does not know how I feel so he probably was not really trying to be an ass but......when I get in this sort of mood people annoy me pretty easily.

marshall
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11 Jul 2011, 5:51 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

Please don't let cliches define you. You don't have to "work your way up societies ladder" in order to not "lose in life". The goal should just be to find something that allows you to live reasonably happy. The poeple who acquire the most useless crap in life all still die in the end.

Quote:

You just have to live for the little pleasures and try to get through each day as it comes. Depression really is a b***h but you don't have to be hard on yourself on top of already feeling miserable. Sorry I don't have anything better to say.

Sweetleaf
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11 Jul 2011, 8:32 pm

marshall wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

Quote:

Well I don't want to work my way up that ladder of society anyways, I am just not sure what else there really is to do....so yeah though I agree with you there it is still stressful for some reason. But yeah I try to just enjoy things but then I sometimes feel guilty, not sure why.

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