Can't live this way any more

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The Haven is the right place for this, right?

My self-esteem is 0. Literally 0. Most people have got at least 1 or over, but I've got 0. Absolutely no self-esteem whatsoever.

Self-hatred (which I suffer greatly with) comes in a loop, what is hard to get yourself out of. You try to be confident, but say the wrong thing, which makes you hate yourself more, then you end up just sitting there quietly like a mouse, and you wish you could be more confident but you know you will go wrong.....

1. Today I went on a bike ride with my mum. An old woman in one of those electric wheelchairs was coming up towards me, and I pulled aside to let her by, and as she was coming by I smiled at her, but she didn't say thank you or hello or anything like that. But my mum was behind me, and this old woman said hello to my mum, and when I asked my mum who she was, my mum said she didn't know. So I don't get why she didn't say anything to me, and I stopped to let her pass and I smiled to her. And don't go associating it on ''body language'' or any of that crap - I was on a bike, with sunglasses on, and what counts the most (according to other people) is the way I stopped to let her by, and I smiled nicely to her. But she can't be unfriendly if she said hello to my mum without knowing her.

2. At my volunteer job, A and B were talking about something that wasn't private, and I just overheard B saying to A, ''I don't really like the new woman who started last week.'' I was nearby, and I felt a little concerned, so I asked, ''oh, why?'' and B turned round to me and said, ''I wasn't speaking to you!'' At first I thought she was just joking, so I laughed. But a bit later on I found out that she meant it seriously, and stated that I shouldn't butt into a private conversation. I knew that it was not a private conversation, it was just a general conversation, and I just couldn't help overhearing what B had said, and I wanted to know why she didn't like the new woman what had started. I thought it was called empathy and social interaction. And I've seen other people dive into people's conversations like that, so it wasn't anything exactly bad. People have done it to me before - I've been telling somebody once about something more private than that, and somebody else butted in from across the room, and I thought that was even socially worse than what I did.

I can't go on with being treated differently when I'm just trying to be friendly. The first scenario is the worst.
It's not that I wanted the old woman in the electric wheelchair to speak to me, it's the way that she said hello to my mum but didn't even acknowledge me, even though I stopped for her and smiled nicely to her, which I was always taught I should do, especially to the elderly. It's called respect. It's the principle of the matter what's upset me.

I have zero self esteem and maximum self hatred. I have to say to you though that's it's good you are trying. I've been so beaten down by the kind of situations you refer to that I don't even bother any more.
With regard to your first situation, I've noticed that NTs don't always think it's necessary to reciprocate gestures. I don't think they know they are being rude ... they just don't really notice or feel obliged to reply.
In your second situation Person B was very rude to you, but it might have been because she was embarrassed that you heard what she was saying. She may not have realized that you were there. Still though, what she said was mean.
Keep trying ... it's better than living in the kingdom of mice. But NTs behavior will always be strange.

I understand where you're coming from, Joe90. Even though I am much older than you, little things like that can still occasionally bother me. Maybe it's not so much low self esteem on your part, as feeling frustrated with all the little hidden things that get by you and leave you feeling puzzled, hurt and inadequate. You most certainly are not inadequate, as you demonstrated by your courtesy to the old bag in the w/c. Keep in mind that she most probably was not directing any malice at you. She may have been looking at your youth and your ability to ride a bike, and felt a moment of jealousy for lost youth or something. It's hard to know why people act the way they do. There are so many obscure rules in social etiquette that you can in no way win them all! Or maybe she was pissed off about some discourteous behavior done her by another youth someplace else, and was still fuming inside, "Bah! Damn whippersnappers!" So she ignored you, the young person, and spoke to your mother instead. Whatever the case may be, it was not your problem.

As for the co-workers, that has happened to me at work, to. I finally figured out that only certain people are allowed to butt into a conversation, depending on some complex pecking order in the workplace in which I was unaware of my place. So I learned not to butt in but listen. If you listen, without being obvious, you learn things.

You have every reason to congratulate yourself on your courtesy to the w/c woman. And to forgive yourself for committing a social gaffe. It happens.

1. It may have been the fact she couldn't look you in the eyes through the sunglasses. That and what hartzofspace said, the "damn whippersnappers" thing!

2. I agree with Ann they were probably embarrassed by what they were saying and were afraid it would get "out." So... they were in the wrong really.

I went through a similar thing recently. I've just started sixth form and a person I know from school is there, but sometimes they completely ignore me and leave me by myself. This afternoon, I said goodbye when I was going home, and she said goodbye to the girl she met literally a few weeks ago when she started at this school, but not to me, who's known her for 5+ years.

Yeah people treat me different too. They can just tell. They don't really talk about it either when I'm around usually, but I'll be part of a conversation for a little while and then they start behaving like they can't even hear me.

Yes, it's hard on the old self-esteem. It's hard to give up hope that these sorts of things will ever get better. The only way I can think of is to keep trying to find things that I do well, things totally unrelated to charisma or whether or not people react to me or acknowledge my existence. Yes, part of my self-esteem will always depend on feeling useful to other people and I'll always come up short in some ways.

But... well, I've got nothing better to do, so I'll keep plugging away at it...