I Just Need To Vent

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I like to debate. Discuss ideas. I love logic. And it's ruining my life.

Today, for the gazillionth time I'm having a robust conversation online when a friend decides to jump in and argue against me, but they can't do it very well. Then, instead of saying they can't articulate their argument (without conceding their point), they decide I'm attacking them, and start insulting me. I only ever see a robust debate as just that, and when people don't make sense, my pointing that out is simply trying to get the debate back on track.

I've had to close all my social media accounts. I do fine for awhile, posting funny pics and talking about what I ate and what I'm watching, and all the inane stuff everyone does, but eventually I get into an interesting conversation that goes south when someone can't comprehend the difference between debating an idea and trashing people. My community and friends tend to express things via emotional language. I can speak that if I try hard, but it's not not natural for me. Yet because I can "pass" if I try hard, no one is understanding of that. They just think I'm a jerk.

The truth is my friends are jerks. They were nicer to me when my job was useful to them, but now that I have switched jobs, they're just nasty to me. I get more enjoyment out of talking to strangers. People who haven't already decided I'm broken. Thanks to my old job there are a lot of nasty things on the internet about me, and when I considered changing my name legally in order to no longer be associated with all the haters and trolls, my friends told me I was crazy and needed therapy. The same friends who refuse to believe I'm autistic and advised me not to get a diagnosis.

I moved about six months ago, left my job and moved across the country, and I've had trouble finding full-time employment. The recession and aspie stuff, combined with the issues from my last job. I've been suicidal for most of that time, and my friends keep telling me I sound and look happier than ever. How could someone be your friend and be that off on your mental state?

The result is I have been trying to "pass" more than ever. I've been vigilant about it, not letting any of the pain show. And I'm miserable. I can't even have a decent conversation anymore. I'm tired. I'm sad. I want to have a life again. I used to have a small one, years ago. Nothing fancy, but I had friends that didn't treat me like crap and I had time and money for my interests.

Anyway, I just needed to vent, and the anonymity here makes it the only place I can be me.

I know how that goes. Used to have a friend whom I trusted who told me they liked how honest I was and that they wanted me to be myself, but every time I felt comfortable enough to express any opinion they disagreed with, I would get the seething silent treatment or chewed up and down about how sh***y and obnoxious I am. Then I would clam up and feel horrible until the person told me I could relax, then I would inevitably offend them again and not even know how or why. It's just that I like discussing and exploring disagreements. In my mind, it's not an attack at all. I'm thinking "I like and respect this person, but they think differently than me on some things and I think it would be fun to explore that." The other person interprets it in a completely negative way.

I think the issue is a massive gulf between how some people approach ideas. Some people have a massive emotional attachment to their political alignments and view any disagreement as a rejection of themselves as people. Others can be less attached to their ideas and are able to discuss them on a different level without feeling so threatened.

What do you like to debate?

Mainly religion, philosophy, media, science, ethics, and of course geeky fandoms.

Thanks for responding. I was feeling pretty alone.

I was actually hoping to find a group for autistic adults in my area, but maybe I just need to hang out here more.

Oh, yeah. Religion in particular is a massive touchy subject to a lot of people. Do you live near a larger city? If you do, there are probably meetups or support groups.

I'm the same way. I like to discuss what is in my head and logically analyse whatever it is. I also like to know other people's opinion on the subject. The problem is that most people seem to think that I should share their opinion and if I point out the logical flaws in their train of thought I'm being obnoxious or or a jerk. People suck. Sorry you're having a rough time.

Thanks. Yeah, I assume if people engage in conversation with me then they really want to talk and communicate, but this isn't always the case. And I usually don't figure this out until it is too late.

I know what it's like to not be able to be yourself. I can't be myself at work because it's a conservative media outlet and I'm a "liberal". I can't be myself at home because hubby and son take up most of my time and I can't talk to hubby about problems because most of them are caused by him and etc.. I fantasize about running away and hiding out in an abandoned mine and doing odd jobs and selling crafts for a living, but I'm getting too old for that.

I love your nickname, btw. I grew up on Idlewild Circle, and it was a wild and idyllic.

I used to want to be in the Forestry Service and live in a fire lookout tower. Sometimes I still want to!

Thanks, I got it from the Anne of Green Gables books.

This is very close to what I was going to say. Some people on here will try and tell you that that's an NT thing and that Aspies are different; those people clearly have never visited PPR...

Beyond the personalization of opinion though, it's very hard to argue with someone without attacking them in some way, if often indirectly. Even if you're just attacking their idea, you're still pointing out a flaw in their logic or reasoning, a mistaken assumption, an area of ignorance, etc, and people don't like to think of themselves as mistaken, illogical, or ignorant. It's far easier for the ego to decide that not only is the person saying such things wrong, they must be malicious as well to make such scandalous and obviously false accusations. Now knowing this, you can either walk on eggshells when debating with people to try and avoid tripping their ego defense mechanisms, or you can accept that you're going to hurt feelings and step on toes learn to deflect the slings and arrows back onto their source; I've mostly chosen the latter approach. However, if you're actually trying to convince someone of something, I recommend a lot more nuance, as those ego defense systems (I believe the technical term is "cognitive dissonance") are going to be your primary obstacle, and they're easier to bypass than to brute force.

That makes sense. I don't think I'm an eggshells kind of person, so I suppose I should just be prepared for unexpected volleys.

Good advice from Dox.

Something I have tried is to go Socrates, pretend to be ignorant, and reword my disagreements as questions. Also, really try to understand where the other person is coming from, and if there is any agreement at all, toss that bone and let them know you agree with them on that point.

I haven't had much luck with that, maybe because I end up in conversations where people cannot, or will not, answer my questions.