Spouse's reaction to meltdown.

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What do I do with a spouse who seems to have a very hard time understanding that a meltdown can't be talked/argued out? That, when I've reached the point where, against my nature, I'm frantically yelling at him to stop what he's doing, stop arguing, and just be calm for me, be simple, be loving, that he needs to STOP, instead of trying to argue and engage me in conversation about how I'm not responding to his attempts to help correctly? That, while it looks like I'm "acting out" while yelling frantically and curling into myself, what I'm doing is, with my mind at its limit, still trying to desperately restrain myself from, say, throwing myself against walls, slamming my arms into things, because I do. not. want. to. scare. my. daughter. and I am pleading with him to help bring me down? Last night, he just kept pushing, pushing, asking, arguing, until, finally, I was pushed to the point where I was temporarily completely nonverbal. Scary for me, scary for him.

Life is frightening for me lately. There are so many events in life right now that are pushing me to the edge on a weekly basis. He knows this, and knows that much of what has put us here has been the result of his actions, and that I've been trying to keep the boat afloat for us. Somehow, I've been the strong one in our relationship, and I think he's gotten used to that role from me. But, I've known that that role (me being the strong one, day in, day out) was something that was NOT sustainable. He says that he knows that I need and deserve the support, but in the moment, he seems totally lost, and goes back to the roles he is used to. ("Well, I could help...but, she's tough, she'll fix it like she fixes everything, right? Maybe if I talk and argue with her long enough, she'll start acting like her usual tough self." He seems lost when faced with the fact that I, too, can be weak and lose myself.) I am cracking. I've been trying to stave off meltdown for so long. Before I even knew that what I was trying to ward away WAS meltdown. All I knew was that if life kept pushing me, pushing me, it would eventually exceed my ability to cope, and I would be where I am now. Daily, balancing on the edge of a knife, with a chasm on each side, one named "Shutdown" and the other named "Totally Losing Control." Trying to explain to my husband that the way he responds to me and helps me daily while things are like this can be the difference between offering me down some ropes to aid my balance, or giving me the final push to fall over one side. What I've gotten is, instead, him watching me balance while arguing about which foot I should put forward, and which arm I should wave to catch myself.

After meltdown last night (horrifying, mortifying) and while still mostly mute, I showed him a couple of blog posts on meltdown, and how a person can react to meltdown in a helpful way.
His initial reaction was, "Oh, yeah, you already had me read these," but, when I finally got him to re-read the both of them, it seemed like he finally took a step back and understood. He gentled himself, and the rest of the night was much better. Still, I'm afraid. I desperately don't want there to be a "next time" of this trying to argue me out of meltdown. I can. not. handle. it. If he didn't take it to heart the first time I showed him these posts, when I was calm (but still, internally, knew that I'd need him to know how to respond, before too long.) how do I know that he will take it to heart now?

I wish that there was a resource out there for the NT spouses, some long, set in stone, what to do and what NOT to do, that could do the "arguing" for me in situations like this. I would LAMINATE them. Is there? Has anyone gone through this with a spouse and come out the other side of it with more understanding?

Hello SteelBlu, sorry to hear you are going through this crap.

I'm going to chuck some options out:
All are true is very unlikely, hopefully some are true, if none of these are true then sorry.

He may think that you asking him to stop arguing is a tactic?
He feels guilty that his behaviour is the cause of friction and it comes out in this way?
Does he have psychological or neurological issues that could be treated or worked on?
Could you discuss a 'safe' word that works for both of you?
If you realise that a meltdown is approaching, can you remove yourself from the situation? Would he follow you?

I emphasize. My husband isn't one to argue, but I've gotten my share of incredulous looks and being ignored. I tried the video route once, and he swore at me and left the room. He has gotten better over time, but there seems to be this wall of disconnect or denial sometimes.

I think the key is repetition(not nagging though). Keep reinforcing what is helpful to you, and over time hopefully it will click for him.

He may think that you asking him to stop arguing is a tactic? -- Possible, as, for him, if he were asking me to stop arguing, it WOULD be a tactic.
He feels guilty that his behaviour is the cause of friction and it comes out in this way? -- Yes. This is true.
Does he have psychological or neurological issues that could be treated or worked on? -- He has depression and ADHD.
Could you discuss a 'safe' word that works for both of you? -- I'm not sure. Maybe. It's sort of why I wanted to be able to print something out, to just hand him to advocate for when I need help. Sort of like what I've heard discussed with the "police card" that can be handed, so they know what they're dealing with.
If you realise that a meltdown is approaching, can you remove yourself from the situation? Would he follow you? -- That's what I finally did last night. I left, but he did follow me. After he followed me, he tried talking to me more calmly...but was still trying to CALMLY argue his points. Still not helpful, and threw me over the edge into nonverbal.

MjrMajorMajor -- Thank you. I do hope that repetition will help. I will keep trying, and I hope that things keep getting better for you and your husband, as well.

As a male in a longtime relationship with an NT woman, what I would do when I felt a meltdown coming on was to leave her presence, and didn't return until I had calmed down some. Of course, calming down, at least for me, could take days. So, what I would do was to refuse to talk about the problem until I had calmed down enough to be able to consider it rationally, and to try to take her perspective into account.

At least for me, a meltdown is where I lose all reason and rationality, and to where I'm liable to say things I really don't mean, but can't be taken back. The woman in my life deserves my best, and I'm not at my best when I'm melting down. Once I calmed down, I was usually able to come to some kind of understanding with her.

For me, a meltdown lately comes from trying very, very hard to be the "strong one" and to push myself to do everything I can, do things, hold myself together, for days/months/weeks. Suddenly, I exceed my ability to cope (one too many stressful shopping trips, time spent with his sometimes overbearing family out of "obligation," one too many stressful life events--for me, right now, my husband's driver's license was just suspended, and he is only allowed to drive for work. I don't drive. I'm doing my best to cope with this change, but my best is not that great right now.). Despite being unable to cope, I will spend days trying to calm myself, find peace in myself. Withdraw somewhat, do things that I find soothing. Sometimes it works. But, sometimes, like yesterday, I'm forced out of my comfort zone when I'm not ready (had to go to work yesterday) and will be pushed too far. When this happens, I need to be able to get home, be loved on, and be allowed to withdraw. I'd be happy with him noticing that I am triggered, giving me a big hug if I'm okay with it, being calm and soothing, encouraging me to get to somewhere quiet instead of trying to argue, and knowing that as soon as I'm feeling better and calmed down, I'll be happy to talk to him about anything he needs me to. I just CAN'T in that overwhelming moment. I just need him to know that that precise moment isn't the right time to guilt me about how our daughter missed me when I was at work, and to try to convince me that I could be doing things better in terms of coping. Give me an hour. Give me two. Approach me when I'm calm and can communicate. Let me not communicate, when I KNOW and have tried to tell him that the things that will be coming out of my mouth are NOT my normal, diplomatic self.

The key is that solutions can only be found when you are both calm, trying to resolve these situations when either one or both of you is angry is pointless.
I don't feel it's fair for you to manage this relationship, sooner or later things are going to get sketchy, but it seems like right now you need to make the decisions. You need time to sit down and discuss how you both feel, trouble is most people take on that they are are being blamed.
I'm not sure about the card, if you show it to him when he is already angry then the effect is likely to be reduced. Try it, if it works great.
I would try and preempt the argument, shut it down before it gets started. Stay calm, repeat that the 'timing is inappropriate' or whatever neutral statement works for you, remove yourself from the situation. If alcohol or drugs are involved then try to change this behaviour too.
Good luck.

So in a situation like this can you send him a text half an hour before you get home.

'Had a really bad day, need some down time'

Will this register with him and he will give you the space you need?

I don't do the family obligations, just not worth the collateral damage.

I agree, that sitting down when NOT in a situation like this is very important. We did have good conversation later that evening, when I was able to better articulate how things went wrong, and when he seemed calmer and more understanding. I do want to emphasize that, when he's trying to argue, it isn't in an angry way. Maybe a little frustrated, but not frustrated like "AHHH, I hate this person, I hate how they act," but more frustrated like, "You know that when you don't wear shoes outside, your feet get cut up. WHY won't you wear shoes??" And, he is expressing it by trying to explain, not in an angry voice; it's just not something that I can cope with in that moment. I don't have the resources to explain why the way he's trying to help isn't working; why I can't "talk it out". I do want to have the conversation and hear what he thinks we should do in the future, just like I want him to listen to me. I just can't do it THEN. In that moment, I wasn't angry either. Just massively overwhelmed, although I'm sure that it came out in a way that sounded like I was angry. (Which I hate! )

If alcohol or drugs are involved then try to change this behaviour too.
To touch on this, he did have this problem in the past, his own poor coping method for depression. He's held accountable for this now, though, and is receiving support, keeping himself on the straight and narrow. He's been much better for a significant period of time. However, it was a bit too late in some respects, and the consequences of that are slowly rolling in to affect our lives (such as the suspended drivers' license.)

That's not a bad idea, to give him a little bit of warning. I think maybe part of his bad reaction is that it came so out of left field, because I do a pretty good job of holding myself together until that point. To him, it may look like I am going from 0 to 100; even though I'm trying to communicate that really I'm already at "90," (very stressed, barely holding it together due to life circumstances) I don't look like it, so he doesn't internalize that. So, when I go from 90 to 100 (100 being unable to cope) it looks to him like I suddenly went 0 to 100, and freaked out for no reason. I get home from work, knowing that I'm at "90", and need downtime, but he's missed me all day, thinks that I'm at "0," and wants to immediately engage, share everything that's stressed him out all day, talk about the day together, have me engage in the household immediately (which, most days, I CAN do.) I think I will talk to him about that, and try giving a warning before I'm home.

The frustration sounds like him being a man, always trying to offer a solution rather than just accepting:
"If you wore shoes you wouldn't get cut feet" it's a way of trying to protect you, it's instinctual.

We can be very, very good at covering up how stressed we are, hovering at 90, after all it's a talent that gets practiced every day.

Maybe get a pressure gauge t-shirt printed up with a movable needle.

Ha! I would love the t-shirt! An aspie "mood ring".

I agree that he's trying to help; it just isn't helpful! So, I'm hoping that in time he can learn to not try to talk it out to fix it, at least not until later. Ha, I know as well as anyone what it's like to want to just talk and fix things. I can be just as bad! Hopefully, we can learn, together.

Sounds like he needs to find a way to vent that is not through you and not self-medication either.

Good luck, keep laughing, it's better than crying.

Thank you! I hope (and think) that he will, and for myself, I'm feeling a lot better thanks to this conversation.

For what it's worth, I completely empathise with you. It's horrible when you are overwhelmed with very strong Aspie emotions and you reach out to the one person you want to love and understand you better than anyone else........the one person you view as your source of love and support........all you want is for them to listen, care and validate your feelings, let you vent, hug and cuddle you............and then they start trying to fix everything and give advice that shows they don't understand at all how you feel..............suddenly I feel very alone in the world...........I start to panic...........I get even more powerful emotions.............my partner shouts..............I'd then feel guilty for the pain I was causing them..........MELTDOWN. I'd throw my dinner up the wall. I've smashed plates on my head. Thrown cups. I would consider it the greatest pain I have ever felt..........to reach out in my hour of need and be completely misunderstood when I was desperate for validation and acceptance. It just confirmed to me that I am abnormal, no ones ever going to understand me, and I am alone. A horrible set of emotions.

For the record, I'm actually a man. I have very feminine emotions. My wife has very masculine.

After several years of bashing crockery and terrorizing the neighbours with repeated mini-wars, my wife and I finally started communicating.

It turned out that she loved me so much, that every time I was in pain, she couldn't cope. She wanted to help so much that she'd instinctively jump to my aid and try to immediately take my pain away.

Once she understood that all she had to to was listen and care and THAT DID TAKE MY PAIN AWAY, she was very happy. She only wanted to help. Neither of us had the skills to connect to the other.

I also got her to practice the line "I love you, it's ok for you to feel like that, tell me more".

On a practical level the eqi (emotional communication website) has an excellent section on the dangers of invalidation and how to validate people. Did you know the number one cause of teenage suicide is that no one listens to them? Also Men are from Mars, women from Venus has an excellent chapter on Mr Fix it - how guys shouldn't give help. There is also a translation table for what female's are actually saying when they are emotional. "No ones loves me" means "I know you love me deeply, but I feel unloved at the moment and really need you to listen to me and care for me". Cool book.

As others have mentioned, sometimes my wife wasn't able to help for reasons of her own. At these times, I take myself away and scream into the dog bed to muffle the sound. I then journal to get my pain out and talk to my wife when she becomes available.

The above processes have enhanced our lives immeasurably.

I don't know whether my post is of any value to you, but please understand I was just trying to help in my own way.

I wish you and your husband a very happy life.

Ashley

Is it possible for the two of you, when you are both calm and collected, sit down and write your own 'manual' for how to deal with these situations? If he is ADHD he may have things that you need to do too, for him to feel better/avoid him going into overdrive, which should also be in your manual.

For instance
-When I have a meltdown, stop talking/argue and just give me some space to breathe and calm down.
-Allow me some downtime right after work to let me de-stress and recharge
-etc

I love the idea of sending a text in advance when you feel a meltdown approaching, I'll try to incorporate that into my own arsenal of tools to function better with family and friends.