I hate being the bad guy to my cat

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Do you ever find yourself forced to be the bad guy? We are fostering a scared cat. I totally understand how she feels. She just wants to be left alone. I want to leave her alone but I'm not allowed to. the Cats Protection people insist that she has injections (a terrifying visit to the vet, even though she never goes outside), and that she is kept in a cage (to supposedly make her feel safer). They then have a program of spending hours each day with the cat, and grabbing her with a towel to force her onto our laps, tightly rolled up so she cannot escape: which she also hates. Eventually this breaks the cat's spirit and makes her docile, but I always see things from the cat's point of view and hate the concept of forcing my will on any being. Can't we just live in peace? I don't want a cat as a slave, I want it as a fellow being: I want whatever it wants, I don't want to force it into my human box, either literally or metaphorically.

All the cat really wants to do is run and hide. Like me. Life would be so much easier of we just let her do what she wants. Easier for her, and easier for us. If we let her then eventually she would relax and get used to us. And if she never did, that's OK too. I would still love her. I am a scared cat too inside and that is what I would want.

OK, the story. Yesterday I felt so sorry for her that I let her out. As expected she ran under the nearest furniture. I think that's the best place for her: she has many exits, so is at last in control of her life (to an extent). She can take as long as is needed until she relaxes. Problem solved. Except my fiancee freaked out: the Cats Protection people insist she must be in the cage (and later wrapped up and forced onto our knees) and there is no negotiation on that point. My fiancee has spent many hours being indoctrinated on that point so there is no debate. I do not want to lose my fiancee so ended up having to get the poor cat back in the cage. Anybody who has experience with scared cats can guess how that went. She is now back in the cage and sees me as the enemy.

I was also the guy who took her to the vet. I didn't want to do that either: yes, sure, once she is confident enough to leave the house, but not before then. But for reasons of work schedules I am at home far more than my fiancee, so I end up having to do the dirty work.

Well anyway, I ended up tonight spending time with the poor cat again. Talking to her through the cage. She is so sweet, so beautiful, and so scared. She is terrified of me: I am the man who does bad things to her. I hate being that man. But I am like her, trapped in a cage, only mine is metaphorical.

I tried explaining to my fiancee, and there was no communication: we had a really bad day when we both felt miserable. We both find it very difficult to communicate (that's why we are so well suited). She said "I wish I knew before how strongly you disagreed". But the real trouble is that I strongly disagree with almost EVERYTHING in this world. think deeply about economics and politics and morality, and that leads me to see things very differently. That is part of my inability to communicate: I see things so fundamentally differently that even the smallest topic quickly escalates to philosophical fundamentals and the other person cannot follow. For example in this case I find the whole concept of forcing our will on other creatures to be a primitive urge that we need to move beyond. But that's not a concept others are ready for.

I need to get on with people, so I practice not saying what I think (as it always causes arguments). but sometimes, like when I looked at that cat and my heart broke for her, sometimes I crack and say or do what is in my heart instead of playing my assigned role (in this case as jailer). And then it goes horribly wrong - it took two days for my fiancee to get over this distress at our row, because I tried to explain myself and that made it all ten times worse: I thought she was not giving any consideration to my opinion, an she thought I hated her. I really suck at communicating.

So anyway, that is why I look into the poor cat's eyes and I know exactly how she feels and I hate being the bad guy. So I came to the Haven to spill my feelings, as some people here will understand.

Thanks for reading.

i predict you and the cat will eventually get on quite well. you have a kind heart.

You have the right aproach to the cat. Your fiancee doesn´t. She believes everything, the "professionals" tell her.
If you catch the cat and wrap it in towels to MAKE it want to be cuddled, you end up stressing it too much, and you´re not getting anywhere with it. Tell your fiancee that.
One day the cat might explode in her face, or yours out of sheer desperation, and that is dangerous!
I wish, I had your fiancee here and were able to tell her.
The cat wont become less scared by being kept in a cage!! ! Who would?

The best thing would be to perhaps hang some cloth around the place, the cat has chosen as her hiding place, - like a protecting cave and perhaps put a blanket or a towel in there to make it soft. Put the water and dinner right beside the entrance and leave the cat be, till it feels more calm.
I sincerely hope for all three of you, that your fiancee wil listen.
What she has been told to do to the cat is violence.

I was told to put my cat in a pillowcase to calm her down and all she did was poop all over it inside. Don't trust the "experts". You'll find the best footing with your cat through trial and error.

I think you are right about letting her decide what she is comfortable with. It breaks my heart that people are trying to force her to relax. I would think letting her out in a room with access to the cage would make her feel better. My only worry would be that in her terror she might dart out a door and escape the house.

There is a tv show called "My Cat from Hell". Most of the cats are aggressive but some are very fearful. The cat behaviorist on the program suggests allowing the cat to be high (cat tree, etc.) makes her feel safer and less fearful.

Can you hang out with her and maybe hand feed her or give her treats? The "cat whisperer" also recommends trying to get them to play to build self-confidence.

I think you explain how you feel in your post really well. Maybe your fiance would understand better if she read your post.

I hope you keep us updated.

You might try the approach I use. Cheat like hell when no ones looking and treat the cat like you think is right. When caught, explain only (and briefly) how you feel sorry for the cat. That way you are just guilty of being (in their eyes) foolishly compassionate, which isn't so bad.

Btw, I really do feel the same way towards animals.

What kind of professionals are they? Keeping a cat in a cage and forcing it to cuddle is definitely not going to help! It will only tell the cat people are dangerous and she has no control over herself when they are around so she will escape whenever she can. You might not be able to do anything about taking the cat to the vet (if they control if you do it) but you shouldn't force the cat to anything at home. It works very well for dogs, but definitely not cats! You can't break a cats spirit.

The way to make a cat trust you is let her out in a save, closed room with some hide spots, food in one corner and a cat toilet in another and enter the room sometimes to spend the time with her but not making physical contact. You might just sit and read a book at first, then when the cat feel more comfortable and gets out from it's hide spot you can observe it but not move. Then, when the cat start to get curious about you instead of hiding you might try giving it some snacks. You throw them, closer and closer to you and at the end you give the food right from your hand. Instead of snacks you can use a cat toy, it is all about letting the cat know you are good to her - food and play are positive activities.
At that point you can try to touch the cat. She will escape first a few times but it soon will realize you are not going to hurt it. Once it gets used to the touch she will come to you herself when she fells like it.

I remember how I made my newest cat trust me. I let it out in my room and just stayed there, surfing the net on my computer while the cat hide behind a closet and stayed there. I let it be. I just made sure it has some food and a litter box close enough it can find it. The cat stayed hidden till the night. Then I went to sleep. And... a surprise. I am falling asleep and I feel something on my bedding. I discretely open my eyes... The scared kitten came by itself and decided it is going to watch my sleeping face. It was very sleepy, it couldn't keep its eyes open but was trying its best not to fall asleep. But eventually it did. The next morning it wasn't so scared anymore. It let me pick it up and it didn't hide behind the closet anymore. It decided to sleep on a sofa instead, it could clearly see me from there. And in the end of the day it climbed on my leg to get on the desk I was working on, apparently curious what I am doing.

I tamed a few scared cats this way. In fact I am so good with it I can tame any cat that I come across. I learned it from my cats, watching them how they met each other for the first time (of course without the snacks thing, instead of snacks they just let themselves eat their foods at the same time instead of waiting till the other cat leaves the room).

At first one of the cats hide and the other made a scary pose. At second they were able to stay in the same room and were aware of each other existence but they avoided eye contact. Then they made eye contact and started to get closer and closer. After a while they made the "nose kiss" (btw, you might try this - point you index finger at the cat and let her touch it with her nose, it is a gesture saying "Hi, my name is ... , I come in peace." and it lets the cat to recognize your smell. You should do it often, later on it becomes a way to say "Hi, I am back. Look where I was, what a new smell I brought.").
Now they may not be best friends (one of the cats is a "cats teenage" and the other is an "grandma" already) but they tolerate each other - as long as the young boy is not in a mood to play "cat and mouse" which "granny" hates because she ends up to be the "mouse". xD

Last edited by Kiriae on 30 May 2014, 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thanks for all the support guys.

re: the cat from hell show. It's funny you mention that. We watch that a lot, and my fiancée always comments how the real problem is the person does not let the cat out - forcing a disturbed outdoor cat into a small space (worse, with a rival cat). So it's ironic that the expert solution to our cat's problem is the same. And the really sad thing is, our cat is not "damaged" as my fiancée says. She is just a sweet and gentle cat who is scared and wants to hide. And the world won't let her. Oh boy can I relate!

I'll try to keep you all updated, but it might take months. Following official advice takes ages. She spent the first week behind the wardrobe, unable to get anywhere else as the door was always closed. My fiancée then got her out and pushed the wardrobe further back, so the cat chose the next best place in the room, and spent over a month under the table. Then we were given the cage two weeks ago. it seems to me that if we are committed to months anyway then this is a very time consuming approach. If we just let the cat have the run of the house from the start I think by now she would not be any worse, and might at least be relaxed. At least she would know we are friends: everything we have done so far has reinforced the idea that we are enemies.

Maybe it's the autism, but I am super sensitive to injustice. When the Cats Protection expert says "this is good for her" I think of generations of white racists saying "this is good for black people" or patriarchal societies saying "this is good for women", or medieval doctors saying "this is good for you" or a hundred other examples. I'm interested in psychology too, in confirmation bias: false and cruel ideas persist for centuries because people take any result as proof that they are right. For example, watching the cat expert talk to the cat, she says "the cat thinks this" and "the cat thinks that" and I see the opposite. I see the whole idea of forcing our views onto others as dangerous. This is a perfect case where compromise is much easier and much better for all sides IMO.

The older I get the more I think that animals and people are equal. If we can live in harmony that is so much better for everyone. I think the best way to explain this is with a mouse I rescued a few years ago. I thought I was smarter than the mouse. The little guy just wanted to run away (like our new cat) and I thought I knew better: I only wanted the best for the mouse, right? Eventually I caught the little guy and put him in a large fish tank we had for the purpose. With food, shelter, water, etc. We had cats at the time, and this would keep him safe (we thought). I had to go to work, so left the fish tank on the kitchen table, weighted down with something heavy so the cats would not knock it down. I was the hero, right? Not really, as I found when I came home that night.

I came back that evening to find that the mouse was smarter than I was. He knew what would happen, that's why he didn't trust me. What happened was, the cats spent all day on the table (as far as I could tell). They must have tried every way to get into that tank. They failed, because I was so careful to keep it secure. But in sitting on the tank, pushing against it, and generally hassling it, they gradually shifted it along the table at random. At some point the tank fell on the ground and opened. Soon after that the mouse was dead.

The mouse knew better than I did. I should have let him hide. (Or more seriously, I should have not kept predators as pets).

I agree - that's what I tried to do when I "accidentally" let the cat escape. And my fiancée panicked, The cat expert came yesterday and got the poor cat back in the cage, lecturing me gently about how "we won't do that again, will we?" Well to be honest if I had things my way I would not even be alive in this world. I disagree so strongly with so much of it.

But the cat expert cannot understand the depths of my disagreement. So I just nodded and forced a smile.

Last edited by trappedinhell on 30 May 2014, 6:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

Good question. The local Cats Protection person is probably typical for the genre - a wealthy woman who wants to do good. Her expertise is in having now rescued lots of cats, but she reminds me of a medieval doctor: lots of experience, convinced she is right, but I don't see things as she does. She sometimes refers to another woman who has even more experience. She was the one who suggested the cage. I think her expertise is of the same kind - had a lot of cats, and works from her own experience. But the thing is, my family has owned a lot of cats as well - I've probably had at least twenty cats over my life, and known plenty more. And I come to opposite conclusions.

Confirmation bias is an interesting thing. When the cat went in the cage and had several hours of playing she did feel slightly more relaxed. Simply because the cage gave her slightly more distance from us. The expert sees this as proof that her method works. Similarly, in the past she has wrapped cats and forced them onto her lap, and eventually the cat has its spirit broken (my words, not hers) and no longer fights or hides. And again this is seen as proof of success. But like I said, it reminds me of racism and sexism. In the past many slaves and women and other oppressed groups accepted their position. After a while they stop fighting and just get used to it. That does not make it right.

I like having animals around. I like to see them as equals. I have always found that real love and respect results. I can watch animals forever - the more I do, the more I feel one of them. But a pet as a slave to fit my whims? I don't want that.

I have disagreements with experienced animal handlers sometimes, but do have to say that there are reasons and often good ones for their methods often.

Where I differ is similar to what you describe in that I think of the animal more like an individual with feelings and emotions. They are not like people emotions exactly, but a different species version of them.

There is probably something valid in our approach but it is very individual centered and not easily developed into a standard method, which is where some of the friction with more professional animal handlers (and often they are animal lovers too) arrises.

The best approach may be, like so many other things, in intelligent compromise and allowing each other some freedom to try out ideas.

On practical suggestion for you, is to make a specific room cat safe, to use for training. That is clear out anything the cat can hide under, etc. Place the cage in the room, but then leave the door open. This way the cat can come out or remain/return to the cage for security. Placing a blanket over the top of the cage might make it seem more safe. The best motivator I have found when training animals is food. Try using a bit of real chicken meat or tuna as incentives in your training.

The cat aside, I think the communication issue with your fiancé is quite important. Its not hopeless and will improve with effort.

Quietness, slow blinking and a packet of catnip drops will have the cat in your lap in no time.

All the best,
CosmicRuss - The Cat Whisperer

Now, that yoiur fiancee is so happy about experts, let her read Dr. Bruce Fogle: "Know your cat", and she will understand a lot more.

Who the f**k are these idiots at cat's protection?

My cat was scared of people and would always hide under furniture for the first few months I had her. She still leaves the house when all but a few select visitors come round, and when something outside scares her she'll go into her regular hiding place in a cardboard box I've got on the shelves at one end of the room, which are hidden by a curtain. How did I get her to trust me to the point she curls up next to me while I sleep, or sits in front of the keyboard when I'm at the computer? I left her alone. In fact since I got her I've been determined not to do anything she might find unsettling, unless absolutely necessary.

The only time I've gone against my rule is a couple of weeks after I first got her, when I found the hair was pretty matted behind her back legs. She's a longhair and needs regular brushing. She used to hate being groomed, probably because her original owners had shut her out of the house when she took offence to being grabbed at by their toddler, and she started scratching, and then after getting regularly soaked and covered in mud and twigs, she ended up with very matted fur that needed to be painfully combed out after she was taken into care. I didn't comb her matted fur, I just cut out the clumps with nail scissors. It wouldn't need combing again until it grew back, by which time she'd got used to me to the point I could actually brush her.

I think a lot of the problem when dealing with a scared cat is how scared you are yourself, that you're going to get scratched or bitten, because they can sense your fear, and find you equally unpredictable. I didn't have any fear of getting scratched or bitten when I had to hold my cat down to trim her fur, because I was wearing a pair of welding gauntlets, and I was able to grab her by the scruff of her neck, without worrying that she could bite me in the attempt. The first college I went to on finishing high school they taught small animal care, and a number of my friends were on that course (and between them and all of us fishkeepers at my shared house, it was more like a zoo with the amount of pets we had under one roof). I quickly learned that most mammals, including cats, dogs, rats and mice become far more docile when held firmly by their scruff, because this is how their mother would carry them, and they find it a less threatening form of restraint. If they're still so agitated that they're thrashing around, then holding them firmly by the base of the tail stops them trying to scratch you with their back legs. From there, again not doing anything lets them know that you aren't a threat, and they should calm down to the point you only need the one hand to hold them.



I don't think the person from cat's protection who's giving this advice genuinely cares about cats. They sound more like someone who gets off on control, and who is more interested in having you 'break' the cat so she'll be easier to move on to a new home, making you available to foster another cat. These kinds of bossy people act the same around anyone, are far too proud to take advice or even read up on how other people reccomend how to do things, and instead muddle through, either on what they've learned from trial and error, or been forced to accept from someone who's even more bossy than they are. It sounds like they've already got your fiancee doing exactly what they want. The trouble is, with all the trauma this cat is being subjected to, she may well snap once adopted if her new owners fail to give her space, and end up right back in care. If this cat is ever going to trust people, then she needs to be given the chance to do so, on her own terms. That's not going to happen when she's shut in a cage. While it's a safe place it's not of her own choosing. It's probably far too exposed. She won't feel safe in the surrounding environment until she's had a chance to explore it properly. I gave my cat the run of the house right from when I first got her, instead of shutting her in one room, which gave her the chance to explore each room while I wasn't in it. After being with me for about a month, and still not wanting to be around me while I was up and about, she actually curled up beside me while I was in bed, and she stayed there for most of the night, BECAUSE I LEFT HER ALONE.

A behaviorist, John Watson, was president of the American Psychological Association in the first half of the 20th century. He warned against the dangers of a mother providing too much love and affection to her child (the book: "Psychological care of Infant and Child"). To me, this demonstrates that the professionals can be wrong.

I like Toy_Soldier's idea of a cat-safe room. If you could have a cat tree, something she could climb to place herself elevated in the room. That way she would not be hiding but (hopefully) but feeling relatively safe and looking down on her domain or home.

I wish you the best. She is lucky to have you. I believe your instincts will lead you to the best choices.

The words "break the cat" breaks my heart. How can anyone get such an idea?.