I just lost a friend because of a scam, bad day, ugh...

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It's something called "Wake Up Now". It was obviously a scam. I didn't insult her at all. I understand why she got involved with it. However, she asked one FB for people to give her the definition of a pyramid scheme and she will explain how it's *not* one. I gave her a video of someone taking 44 minutes out of their day to analyze their financial report, which is available to the public.

She kept arguing with me. She eventually said it was a pyramid scheme, but not illegal. She even admitted you make revenue by getting other people to join and "invest". She deleted everything because I posted the video to her and told the other woman to look at it because the other woman commenting couldn't find information on the company and my "friend" was trying to get her to "invest" $100 (aka recruiting more people so she can make money).

My "friend" said I insulted her, got very erratic, and deleted me on FB. I messaged her and said it was messed up, but she said it wasn't. We have known each other for almost a decade. She also has a kid and I know she is in poverty, so this is why I wanted her to know it was a scam. Well, she kept demanding I send her a link from the company's website about the financial report (I did) because she refused to watch a video of "someone who joined and made no money."

I sent it to her and I'm pretty sure she doesn't care. This is just depressing. In my opinion, she wasn't a true friend since she did that. However, it's still sad to me.

I also didn't get any sleep last night. I've been so depressed again for weeks that I haven't really been on here or FB (in like 2 months for that site). I finally get back on and I end up arguing with someone. I got so angry and I just started insulting them. It was about that damn Hobby Lobby case, and she was spreading misinformation about birth control and what started off as a conversation about separation of church and state ended up with her telling me I'm a white feminist who doesn't care about POC and I want to sterilize them. WTFH. By the way, I never said any such thing. I kept following the strawmans and getting distracted until we ended up on a completely different topic. I just called her a nut and kept telling her she's lying. Why do people lie so much about medicine? Or do they REALLY believe what they are saying??

It just sucks that my first day back on the internet (socially and for a while hopefully) is like fighting and the loss of a friend. It reminded me why I hate social networks. I swear if someone else says one more ignorant thing today I will flip out on them. I don't know why I have such a short fuse. I just can't take stupidity anymore. I feel like logging off again. *sigh*

Thanks for listening, guys. I hope to repay the favor when I feel a bit better. I just hope this isn't one of those 4-8 month long depressions like I ALWAYS get. I seriously think I'm Bipolar and I hate this. I can't wait until my insurance kicks in on August the 1st. I really need mental health help. I'm even rejecting my poor innocent dog who wants to do nothing but comfort me and lay on my lap. My poor baby.... I'm neglecting him and everyone around me, including on the internet. I can't tell if I truly can't socialize with more than one person at a time EVER or if I'm just having the cycle of intense, never ending depression.

The sad part is I usually love debating. Maybe I should just read something and learn a new topic.

This might just be a temporary thing. I had two friends become involved in pyramid schemes on two separate occasions (but Amway both times). I tried to talk them out of it but they wanted no part of that and we didn't communicate for several months. Both of them took months to quit then pyramid scheme but once they did, everything went back to normal between us.

Pyramid schemes are notorious for damaging friendships. That's because friends are always the ones that the pyramid dupe hits up first for money to "invest" or to buy the horrible products. Eventually friends avoid the pyramid dupe until the pyramid dupe quits.

There is a very good chance you can renew the friendship when she quits (and she will). At some point months from now she will contact you again and say "I'm not doing Wake Up anymore". Let her back into your life. This is a temporary insanity that many people succumb to but then get over.

It sounds like this is similar to the "soo-soo" which is common in West Indian communities. Everybody has to get in the money at exactly the right time in order for it to work. Otherwise, you lose your money. It's similar to a pyramid scheme.

This person sounds like she's pretty gullible, pretty impulsive, and probably not worth it, especially in light of her conduct. I'm sorry you've (perhaps temporarily) lost a decade-long friendship.

Hey, guys. I talked to her. She said she isn't mad, even though she deleted my information to prevent others from seeing it (it wasn't insulting to her at all, I made sure of it) and deleted me from FB. -_- ... I feel like she's lying to me. *sigh* Females, I guess...

I know someone neck deep in multiple direct sales junk. I just ignore her "networking" posts, and wait for the phase to pass.

I have another update now. She said this:

"Because you were CLEARLY bashing something I love. Instead of supporting me like a FRIEND would you were saying how wrong I was. Instead of saying okay go ahead but if you come back to ill just say I told you so you were bashing it instead of being supportive you only wanted to prove how right you were when i still personally feel like you're wrong."

I replied

"Why would I come back and say I told you so?? That's not a good friend! A good friend tries to help stop friends from making mistakes if possible.
I've supported you with everything else.
But when a friend is being used, I can't ethically just let them get used without even trying to change their mind and prevent damage"

She replied

"Okay whatever bleh12345. You're right. You win. Goodbye."

Why does everyone think this is a GAME? Every time I try to help someone they always say I'm arrogant, or they are sarcastic. My abusers, my sister, my husband, some friends. They always say "Ok, bleh12345. You're always right. You win". This isn't a game. I'm not out to make everything a competition. Should I just leave her alone for a while? Because every time this happens people are really mad at me unless I say sorry or something. Why should I be sorry for being a good friend?

So I should just leave her alone? She says she's not mad but clearly is. She didn't try to network to me, so I guess I will just ignore it. I mean she deleted me off of FB anyways, so...

You did the right thing by advising her this was a scam. It sounded like a scam.

Sometimes people have to make their own mistakes. The best thing is to take a step back, and let them learn on their own. Just say, "I wish you the best" and leave it at that.

OK. Yeah, my sister says she needs to learn herself too, but sometimes I feel like it's stupid. For example, my sister wants to go to a for-profit school at $40k per year for 4 years for graphic design. And I'm like "You are stupid." I feel like these scams can f**k you up really bad sometimes depending on how much money you throw at them. I will let her learn her lesson, I guess, but I still don't get it. *shrugs*

Do they have graphic design at state universities?

Oh, boy! Another Utah-based channel-distributed business that is "not only merely" legitimate, but "really most sincerely" honest.

Yeah, sure. Utah has been home to many of the world's biggest multi-level businesses like NuSkin and USANA. The state and federal governments have called the state the "scam capitol" of the nation/world.

Now, yes, these businesses usually have really good products that their "distributers" sell. But, they are too often over-priced and require huge amounts of up-front payments. Then, it is up to each distributer to sell the products or go broke.

The best of these businesses use the channel-distribution model to avoid the costs of paying the costs of employing, training and insuring its line workers who are legally contract workers who end up having to pay their own withholding taxes and other required expenses. Okay, fine. If that is the worst of it, nobody's really harmed. A lot of people can run their own home businesses.

But, the worst of these businesses surge into existence, and then close or change their business names remarkably soon. Leaving their distributers with a lot of old inventory, no corporate backup and even less cash on hand.

Finally, what's up with the ENTIRE "Wake Up Now" corporate leaders being white, middle-aged men with creepy Cheshire Cat grins? I don't care so much about their demographics, but it doesn't instill a sense of confidence in me that they know how to succeed beyond hiring their fraternity friends.

Hi,
The Scam thing is a shame. Basically regular folks can get caught up in it and suddenly its a kind of moral dilema. You want to help your friend, but not by getting suckered and watch others get taken in too. I lost a friend under similiar circumstances. It was strange in that I almost predicted it happening months before.

Regular long term depressions are really bad. Are you on meds? If so maybe they need changing?

I am opposite about debating. I dislike that form of communication because it tends towards a kind of contest or can become confrontational. If I have to say something, I just say my opinion and leave it at that. I don't think many people change there minds in internet debates or any discussion for that matter. But it kind of depends on the tenor of the conversation. Some, more rarely do stay friendly/civil.

I think she deleted it because she NEEDS to believe it. You said she is poor, and she wants to have hope at making some money. Of course it's a scam, but those scams usually attract people with no money. Just like the witch doctors and alternative medicine scammers attract desperate people too. They believe it because they need to. Any evidence to the contrary is disregarded. And it's not females btw, I know plenty of men who do the same things. There are probably more men in pyramid schemes than women (just a guess).
Anyway, she probably isn't going to change her mind despite any evidence you provide.

I'm not quite sure. The college she wants to go to is a liberal arts college, and it's private. Read: EXPENSIVE!



I understand. I was just really thrown back and how she described my behavior as a bad friend, and she said a good friend would say "I told you so" after she got used. Meh. Some people WON'T learn, I suppose.



I just looked up scams in Utah. Holy CRAP! I never knew there were so many that originated there. All of what you said I completely agree with, even down to those creepy middle-aged white men.

Hi,
The Scam thing is a shame. Basically regular folks can get caught up in it and suddenly its a kind of moral dilema. You want to help your friend, but not by getting suckered and watch others get taken in too. I lost a friend under similiar circumstances. It was strange in that I almost predicted it happening months before.

Regular long term depressions are really bad. Are you on meds? If so maybe they need changing?

I am opposite about debating. I dislike that form of communication because it tends towards a kind of contest or can become confrontational. If I have to say something, I just say my opinion and leave it at that. I don't think many people change there minds in internet debates or any discussion for that matter. But it kind of depends on the tenor of the conversation. Some, more rarely do stay friendly/civil.

The funny thing is she didn't even invite me. She asked for the definition of a pyramid scheme, so I gave it to her. I DO know it was one of those "give me this information so I can prove you wrong" statements, but I answered her in hopes she could understand. I always knew she was liable to get suckered into these things for various reasons, but I never thought she would be so upset about me trying to help her. I'm sorry for the loss of your friend. It just sucks that THIS is what breaks up friendships, and you are just trying to help! Not even embarrass them, just prevent them from being used more!

I'm not on meds yet, but I think I need to be. I was on Trazodone a few months ago, and it worked for 2 weeks. I ended up having a psychological side effect (extreme anxiety, panic attacks, fast heart beat, mood changes, suicidal ideation, agitation, violence). I'm getting (good) insurance August 1st, so I'm already looking up psychiatrists! I can't wait to find someone who can actually manage medicines and listens to my reactions. I might be somewhat of a complicated case, unfortunately. Anti-depressants never worked, dozens of meds I've tried either don't work, make me worse, or give me a severe reaction. The only two that worked were Adderall XR and Lamictal, but I ended up with that deadly rash from the only mood stabilizer that brought me relief! Ugh!

You know, I've always been a debater. Even as a small child, I questioned everything around me. In my view, it can get a bit competitive, but it's how I learned to get to know people. I learn their views, their style of argumentation, their level of open-mindedness, and their body language (what it means). Most importantly, debates with others help me overcome my inability to have good small talk and it helps shape my world-view. You can't exactly be a rational person without hearing opposing arguments and considering your own views. I have recently thought about changing this, but it's kind of hard. It's rather natural to me, and I know it makes me come off as very stubborn and arrogant, even though that's the opposite of my intentions.



Yes, I realize all of that, which made me want to protect her even more! I just feel so bad that she will find out the hard way instead of admitting it was a scam and not giving them more money!
When I talked about females, I kind of meant this is always how friendships with them end. They will always get angry, say they aren't, and it's so hard to tell what they really want. This is just my personal experience, though. It's especially hard because I want nothing more than to have female friends, but I fail at that. Due to my past with my (bad) mother, I find it hard to even confront other females because I feel like I keep attracting ones that are like her. I wish it was easier to connect with them is all. Sometimes my male friends just don't get what it can be like to be a woman. *sigh* She still hasn't talked to me, but I haven't tried to talk to her, either. I think this is it, knowing how she is.

*hugs* So sorry to hear this. Remember, I am ALWAYS here for you.