Tollerance towards autism as a disguise for contempt?

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That's and excellent way of putting it and I bet a lot of people think you're just being witty and not entirely serious.

You make plenty of sense, and I'm the one with the raw nerve here I understand very well where you're coming from. I grew up in the system in quite horrid conditions, because my parents never wanted me and did their best to get rid of me.

Such cases are easier in a way, they are obviously not worthy of any respect and in no position to claim the moral high ground or make allegations of how much they loved me. Which is not the case with those who loudly demand sympathy from the whole world for the tragedy of having an autistic child.

I didn't grew up with a diagnosis so it didn't define me. I was burden and a bastard as a child, a worthless punk who will get what's coming to him in my youth and now I'm a respectable man who can afford to be eccentric. Doesn't this strike you as interesting? For as far as I'm concerned WHO I am hasn't changed that much along the years and autism was a part of it right from the start.

I might have had to learn the hard way, but at least I didn't have the stigma of being some kind of irremediable "freak" by birth. But my son grows up with this label and I'm starting to consider more seriously in what way this might hinder him instead of helping. As BuyerBeware points out, as far as some people are concerned, our diagnosis robs us of the right to basic human dignity and even personhood.


Off topic: I've run into that quote from Camus way before I even heard of autism and identified with it with no reservations. In a similar way, Shestov, another fascinating thinker, refers to Nietzsche and Dostoevsky as "inverted simulators", people fully aware of their "abnormality" as human beings, forced to avoid the unforgiving axe of public opinion by faking normality, at least to the extent of merely being considered eccentric instead of insane. That didn't end too well for Nietzsche though.

And by the way, is your user-name a tribute to Döblin's book?

I worry that this also applies to what is termed as mental illness. There's a growing trend to "make people more aware of the dangers of mental illness" and all that, mostly due to the mass shootings that are occurring with seemingly increased frequency. I don't buy it. Somewhere, somehow, people will be aware of it and make things worse. Maybe they'll accept in name, but you can't deny that people have "friends" and still talk crap about them behind their backs.

Well spotted on the user name, it is in fact taken from Fassbinder's film Berlin Alexanderplatz (based on the book), plus personal experience of the actual location. It's a difficult place to avoid if you are in Berlin, and an intriguing place despite the appearance of it. Don't know how faithful to the book Fassbinder's film was - ordered a copy of the book from the internet, and when it turned up it was in German, which I can't read.

My diagnosis came late (aged 58) so as a kid it wasn't the stigma or shame of diagnosis that was the problem, it was my parent's fear of my symptoms that was, and in particular their methods of suppressing the symptoms. In short, physical and mental violence was employed at length to moderate my behaviour. Not meaning to be unfair to my parents, from their point of view it probably looked like they had a potential lunatic on their hands. That generation who lived through the 30's and 40's were hard. I actually consider myself lucky to have avoided institutionalisation with a psychiatric mis diagnosis.

Anyway, the attempt to normalise Alexanderplatz of course failed, and as gloriously as possible - as it will continue.

Thanks for spotting the seriousness in the wit, the Camus quote is funny, but deadly serious, and I upped the sense of comedy in the quotes, but kept the seriousness dead level. My description / subset of ASD is of a dark dark base with a sometimes silly nature on top.

Interestingly, my ASD diagnosis has actually led to a sense of destigmatisation, because these days if I start to worry people in conversation I tell them I'm ASD, or flash my "AUTISM ALERT" card if things are getting properly worrying. It might have taken me half a century but it is now possible for me to drift through society without a negative impact, and indeed can impersonate respectability to a fault - as long as I keep my mouth shut.

Work is out of the question. Whilst hesitating adopt a fascistic manner, there's nothing wrong with me in this, therefore it is society that is spectacularly at fault. One thing I regret about not having had an earlier diagnosis is that this simple truth might have been realised more intensely at a younger age.

Never heard of Shestov, but will find out about him - Nietzsche makes my brain hurt, but I do remember him using the metaphor of going into the marketplace, and in essence saying that if you do so there is going to be trouble.

I like humour, perhaps there is some kind of Nietzscherian marketplace quote I can make at the Welfare people if they ever have another go at changing my behaviour.

Typo: "Whilst hesitating adopt . . . " should read "Whilst hesitating to adopt . . . "

Yesterday I was reading about ABA and how so many of them use "therapy" that would be considered cruel and horrible acts of child abuse by many people if they saw it done to NT kids. But ohhh no, it's perfectly okay and acceptable to force autistic to make eye contact or not stim, and punish them by inflicting pain or tying them to a chair. people Many of these same ABA people seem nice, at least at first. It's like the pedophile who lures children into his car with toys and candy.

It just goes to show that when someone's profession involves taking care of people who may not be able tell anyone or defend themselves due to their age, health, or disability issues, do not trust them. Ever.

@lostonearth35 - I don't know if we have the same stuff in the UK, but the stuff I've heard of being done to aspie kids in the states scares me to the roots.

Again, not being fascistic by habit, but if society chooses to persecute me for waving my hands about, muttering under my breath, avoiding eye contact, avoiding the workplace, smelling of cigarette smoke or enjoying an extensive eruption of flatulence in my promenades into society then IT IS SOCIETY'S FAULT NOT MINE, obviously, because society is there to support me, not the other way round. You should have seen me before I mellowed.

Thank you, this topic is full of honest and intelligent replies. It makes me think about who I am in this world. My life is easy. My parents did their best. They had their own demons to fight. I was well educated and given a head start. My pain from living in this world was not addressed. Which is odd, both of my parents were mental health professionals.

Wanting better for your family and children is noble. Protecting them and providing for them is difficult. There are people I see as everyday heroes. They face down and battle their demons everyday. People don't see it. All they see is a person, a bit odd, who is struggling. Most just walk away, to afraid to see the courage and strength of this outsider.

I try to find peace with the world. It is not easy. I am proud of my accomplishments and my failures. I am jealous of those who can play the game. But mostly, I am alone, on the outside looking in.

Last edited by goatfish57 on 04 Dec 2015, 7:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Well said goatfish. I think some of us are, for whatever reason, destined to be alone, even when surrounded by people. I do not know why but i think that someday we will understand.

I also like the Camus quotes, Alexanderplatz. i have not seen them before--thanks for sharing.

BenderRodriguez, my husband is the best thing to have ever happened to me. I am pretty sure that he too is an aspie, but he is more socially adept than i in many areas and has been able to protect me from life and my own naivete many times. Although his approach can be very blunt and painful due to his aspie obliviousness at times. People with sensitive skin that is easily torn will always be injured by rough edges, i guess.

I am better than i used to be but still have a hard time seeing through the social dance of NT people.

Thank you, I appreciate the compliment. Maybe, "someday we will understand" or maybe someone will show us the way.

Indeed, this thread has been most helpful and very interesting. All of you gave me something to think about and I do feel much better, certainly more able not to concentrate so much on the negative things I see here.

I'm in a rush now and my weekends are busy with the kids, I'll just leave here another Camus quote that I think a lot of aspies, so oblivious to hierarchy rules and adverse to power struggles, might appreciate:

"Don't walk in front of me, I might not follow, don't walk behind me, I might not lead, just walk beside me and be my friend"

I can relate. I grew up around people who claimed to love me, yet they used my diagnosis as an excuse to completely dismiss every word that came out of my mouth. I was not a human in their eyes. I still am not a human in their eyes. They often tell me that I have cognitive disabilities and that I should never trust my own thoughts, emotions or opinions.

Enter my therapist, who tested me for cognitive disabilities. The test came back negative in the best of ways. I have autism. I am not a blubbering idiot who needs to be babied. My IQ is over 160, also recently tested. I am fully capable of being my own man, and f**k any Motherf***er who says otherwise.

I understand that people listen to the way I verbalize, and they look at my awkward body language, and a lot of them assume that means that I live with intellectual disabilities. Some of these people tried to take me on as a pet project. I went through a few sponsors who dismissed my righteous frustration as little more than a signal that my disability was out of control. Well, I never was acting like a raving lunatic, but people have their prejudices. The best thing I can do in the face of that is to be myself, and look at the prejudice for what it is. What it is not is a reflection of who I am. I finally landed a sponsor who treats me like a human being, and he is a real hardass on me. Great, because handling me with kiddie gloves was just flat-out insulting and patronizing.

I just had another thought on this topic...in my humble opinion i also think that because it is often a hidden disability, it is not seen as a disability as much as a character flaw. People who don't understand autism or don't pick up on it right away see us as weak, annoying, or irritating--and then it follows that they see themselves as morally superior or mentally stronger than we are. I don't look much different from anyone else except for some subtleties that those familiar with autism might pick up on--but a regular John Q. Public will probably not. I think this view of autism as a character weakness rather than a disability is responsible for a lot of the condescension toward autistic people.

If someone is in a wheelchair, people build ramps and larger bathroom stalls for them. They don't expect them to feel at home in a building where the only bathroom is on the 2nd floor and the only way to it is up the stairs. But the equivalent happens many times to those of us with autism--we are thrown into settings where we are set up to fail, and then get blamed for our own failures. If we try to explain this often invisible disability, it is seen as "making excuses" for our "bad behavior." I don't have any good answers but i think this is the root of the problem.

Yes, you are correct. That is why I wear my persona mask in public.

Most people react out of fear. Fear drives the hate, anger and contempt. Robert Sapolsky, from Stanford, has written numerous book on the neurobiology of stress and fear.

Edit: "contempt is anger directed toward a lower-status individual"

This thread has very good comments on it, so here's a bump.